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Author Topic: New Arca-Swiss M-Line two  (Read 20197 times)
Harold Clark
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« Reply #40 on: May 05, 2009, 07:19:26 PM »
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Quote from: BJNY
Congrats, Frank.

Please post some JPEGs
and please give us your further impressions.

Billy

I second this, it would be great to have a report after you have put it through it's paces.

I am especially interested to know if this camera is precise and rigid enough to maintain alignment with very wide lenses  (23mm, 28mm, 35mm etc ). If so it would provide a more cost effective approach to architectural photography than the pancake cameras, while still providing the utility of a regular view camera for longer lenses.
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CBarrett
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« Reply #41 on: May 05, 2009, 08:30:52 PM »
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Quote from: Harold Clark
I second this, it would be great to have a report after you have put it through it's paces.

I am especially interested to know if this camera is precise and rigid enough to maintain alignment with very wide lenses  (23mm, 28mm, 35mm etc ). If so it would provide a more cost effective approach to architectural photography than the pancake cameras, while still providing the utility of a regular view camera for longer lenses.

I did a test with my F Line Classic shooting the Schneider 24mm Digitar against my Rodenstock 65mm and 4x5 film.  The 15 year old F Line had no problem keeping the 24 sharp edge to edge and that camera is a wet noodle compared to the M Line.
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fmo
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« Reply #42 on: May 06, 2009, 01:17:42 AM »
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I'll report here as soon as I have something to tell...
Waiting for my digital back, going to shoot tomorrow with both, the Rodenstock 35mm and 105mm lenses.

As far as I can tell now the camera can be adjusted free from play, but eating is the proof of the cake and I will report later.
Until now I used my Canon 1Ds MKII with some decent L-lenses which I already found amazing, but the Arca is a step on a new level with regards precision.

Still with a big smile on my face,
Frank
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tho_mas
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« Reply #43 on: July 13, 2009, 05:32:18 PM »
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How much lateral/vertical movements are possible with the DSLR version of the Arca Swiss M-Line Two before the mirror box interferes?
Thanks!
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erick.boileau
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« Reply #44 on: July 14, 2009, 12:29:39 AM »
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and what about wide angles ?  something like Hasselblad HCD 28 + HTC 1.5  or Canon 24 TSE II  ?
is it possible with M-Line 2 ?
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fmo
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« Reply #45 on: July 14, 2009, 01:46:47 AM »
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I do not use the DSLR version of the M-Line Two, so I can't tell you anything specific about these issues. I would recommend to get directly in touch with Martin Vogt at Arca Swiss who knows best about any restrictions regarding movements / lenses, etc.

As far as I can tell the M-Line Two is a beast with regards precision. Doing this step moved my requirements for precise accessories (if you can call a tripod head an accessory) far beyond everything I expected. I already used a Gitzo 3540 XLS together with an Arca Swiss Monoball Z1 DP, now with an Arca Swiss Cube C1.

I could not do much testing, as I am one of these guys affected by the Leaf / PhaseOne fairy-tale, but this is a whole story of its own. I ordered an Aptus II-7 approx. 2 months ago, just right in time before all this mess started. Still on hold. Occasionally I got a rental back from Leaf Germany, who are more than helpful. If I find the time I can post sample images, maybe by the end of the week. The shortest lens I used is the Rodenstock 35mm. So far I do not have any experience with 28, 24 or even 23mm. Maybe in the near future, we will see.

To the DSLR users who consider using this camera together with their DSLR bodies basically I had the same approach, but after re-thinking this, it just did not make sense to me. Taking photos with the M-Line Two and a digital back has slowed me down compared to the 1 Ds MKII, but has also reduced rubbish. Personal opinion and experience, nothing else.

Frank

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JeffKohn
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« Reply #46 on: August 03, 2009, 12:20:54 PM »
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Quote from: fmo
To the DSLR users who consider using this camera together with their DSLR bodies basically I had the same approach, but after re-thinking this, it just did not make sense to me. Taking photos with the M-Line Two and a digital back has slowed me down compared to the 1 Ds MKII, but has also reduced rubbish. Personal opinion and experience, nothing else.
Frank
I don't doubt that one of the latest and greatest digital backs would be the ultimate in image quality, but the M-Line 2 is attractive to me for several reasons:

1) I already have a nice DSLR that I could use with it.

2) The M-Line 2 and lenses would already be a signficant investment, and since this camera wouldn't completely replace my DSLR, I couldn't sell the DSLR to help pay for purchasing an MFDB. So purchasing an MFDB would just make the whole proposition that much more expensive.

3) DSLR LiveView will simplify focusing and composing.

4) I also have my doubts about whether one of the cheaper used digital backs would really be better than something like a D3x - maybe in some ways, but not necessarily in others. Especially since I'd be losing LiveView, high-ISO, long exposures, etc.

For me the M-Line 2 seems like a good stepping stone to LF-style photography, especially if the DSLR version can be upgraded to MFDB or film at a later time with additional adapters (which is not clear to me from the press release). It may not get me true MF-digital quality, but it would be a step up from 35mm lenses and would give me a lot more flexibility in movements compared to my T/S lenses (which I would sell, except for the 24mm).

The big question is lens compatibility in the 28-90mm range. How many retro-focal lenses are there that could be used with this setup?
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BJNY
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« Reply #47 on: August 03, 2009, 12:52:32 PM »
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Quote from: fmo
As far as I can tell the M-Line Two is a beast with regards precision.

Frank,

Would you post a picture of your setup. please.
I'd like to see how large the beast is.
Are you coming from F-Line?

Thank you,
Billy

Edit:  
Also, does the front standard only tilt & swing
while the rear standard only shifts and rise/fall?
« Last Edit: August 03, 2009, 12:54:19 PM by BJNY » Logged

Guillermo
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« Reply #48 on: August 04, 2009, 10:57:36 AM »
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Arca-Swiss USA has confirmed to me that the SLR and MF versions of the M-Line 2 are two distinct cameras, the SLR version cannot be used with film or MFDB adapters, so there's no upgrade path. I suspected that based on the wording in the press release, but it's still disappointing.

They're waiting to hear back from France on lens compatibility.
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JeffKohn
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« Reply #49 on: August 04, 2009, 10:59:53 AM »
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Quote from: BJNY
Edit:  
Also, does the front standard only tilt & swing
while the rear standard only shifts and rise/fall?
Yes, that is correct.
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fmo
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« Reply #50 on: August 04, 2009, 02:14:40 PM »
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Quote from: JeffKohn
Arca-Swiss USA has confirmed to me that the SLR and MF versions of the M-Line 2 are two distinct cameras, the SLR version cannot be used with film or MFDB adapters, so there's no upgrade path. I suspected that based on the wording in the press release, but it's still disappointing.

They're waiting to hear back from France on lens compatibility.

This is not true, as the camera consists of elements of the Arca Swiss M-Line. You might replace the rear standard to use it with film or digital backs. It might not be cheap, but it is possible, as all M-Line components will fit on the same rail.

I'll try to post images of my setup within the next days.

Frank
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JeffKohn
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« Reply #51 on: August 04, 2009, 02:46:43 PM »
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Quote from: fmo
This is not true, as the camera consists of elements of the Arca Swiss M-Line. You might replace the rear standard to use it with film or digital backs. It might not be cheap, but it is possible, as all M-Line components will fit on the same rail.
I guess the USA rep's info was incomplete, or my question misunderstood.  Replacing the rear standard shouldn't be as bad as replacing the whole camera, at least.
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JeffKohn
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« Reply #52 on: September 23, 2009, 01:05:08 PM »
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I've gotten some additional word from Arca-Swiss on lens compatibility for the DSLR version of the M-Line 2. The following lenses are compatible:

Schneider Digitar 28mm/2.8 L
Schneider APO-Digitar 72mm/5.6 L
Rodenstock HR Digaron-W 70 mm f/5.6

Any longer lenses should also work.

The Rodenstock 40mm and 50mm lenses are not compatible, despite being retro-focus designs. They have the necessary flange focal length, but the rear elements extend too far back.

To cover the gap from 28mm to 70mm, Arca-Swiss is working on an adapter for Phase/Mamiya medium-format lenses, which they tentatively expect to have ready sometime this year.

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asf
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« Reply #53 on: September 23, 2009, 03:01:15 PM »
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Quote from: JeffKohn
To cover the gap from 28mm to 70mm, Arca-Swiss is working on an adapter for Phase/Mamiya medium-format lenses, which they tentatively expect to have ready sometime this year.

Sounds like they'd be better of calling Calatrava ...
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JeffKohn
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« Reply #54 on: September 23, 2009, 04:08:03 PM »
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Quote from: asf
Sounds like they'd be better of calling Calatrava ...
Huh?
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asf
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« Reply #55 on: September 23, 2009, 08:50:40 PM »
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It's a pretty big gap
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BJNY
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« Reply #56 on: September 24, 2009, 08:05:20 AM »
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Here's an updated alternative from Horseman:

http://www.komamura.co.jp/e/VCCpro/index.html
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Guillermo
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« Reply #57 on: September 24, 2009, 08:46:00 AM »
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Quote from: BJNY
Here's an updated alternative from Horseman:

http://www.komamura.co.jp/e/VCCpro/index.html


after a first quick look at the horseman camera I realise a huge difference between the 2 systems:

at arca swiss the slr body is fitted to the arca by a camera plate and a quick release which offers a solid and extremely stable connection and support.

the horseman camera seems to use the bayonet mount to support the camera body.

both systems will have their individual advantages and disadvantages.
the arca is very strong and stiff, but I can't imagine how the user wants to adjust the sensor plane and lens plane absolutely parallel to each other when it all depends on the alignment of the camera plate between the slr body and the arca.
the horseman offers fast switching from landscape to portrait and probably supplies a parallel lens plane to the sensor plane, but might be sensitive for vibrations due to the cantilevered slr body position.

as always eating is the proof of the cake.
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JeffKohn
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« Reply #58 on: September 24, 2009, 12:03:25 PM »
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Quote from: asf
It's a pretty big gap
It is a considerable gap, although the larger image circle of the 70/72mm LF lenses means that you can cover part of that gap with rear shift and stitching.

But the MF lens adapter does seem pretty important to the viability of a camera like this (I notice the Horseman and Cambo alternatives already have this).  A couple of lenses in the 35-50 range would cover that gap nicely, and the image circle on MF645 lenses should still be big enough to allow a useful range of movements with a 24x36mm sensor. I guess I need to do some research on MF lenses....

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JeffKohn
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« Reply #59 on: September 24, 2009, 12:08:01 PM »
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Quote from: BJNY
Here's an updated alternative from Horseman:

http://www.komamura.co.jp/e/VCCpro/index.html
Looks interesting, probably less expensive too. It's hard to tell from the images there how precisely geared the movements are compared to the M-Line 2, though.
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