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Author Topic: Infrared Convertion to Canon D5  (Read 3958 times)
yasinclair
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« on: April 23, 2009, 12:53:28 PM »
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I'm considering getting my Canon adapted by Lifepixel to be infrared sensitive.
They remove the factory filter in front of the sensor which stops IR getting through.
 This allows the full spectrum of to be read by the sensor.
 My question is after they do the conversion and remove the IR block filter -  could I do the filtering in photoshop afterward to achieve the effect of an opaque black and white filter which lets through only IR or would I need to use an opaque b and w IR filter in the field? (This would make shooting much easier as I wouldn't have to use a tripod and shoot 'blind')

Many thanks to all in advance
Yaakov Asher Sinclair
Visit My Websitehttp://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=34094&st=0&#
« Last Edit: April 24, 2009, 01:30:20 AM by yasinclair » Logged

Alaska
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« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2009, 02:56:37 PM »
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Here is a nice tutorial by Mark Johnson that may address some of your questions.

http://www.msjphotography.com/index.php/20...color-infrared/


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kaelaria
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« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2009, 09:47:27 PM »
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The IR conversion is not a filter effect.  No you can not fully reproduce it in PS.  I used their parts to do my own body - worked great!
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Ben Rubinstein
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« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2009, 07:40:11 AM »
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As far as I had understood after removing the IR filter then turns the camera into a full time IR camera. All you then need to do is a B&W conversion and you're done. Certainly better than using an IR filter on a DSLR, had horrible flaring when I tried and it never looked right.

Of course a 5D isn't going to give the resolution of your 8X10 camera but for your usual print sizes as sold on your web site you probably won't notice much difference for IR work. Your clients certainly won't.

I've done quite a bit of stitching work in your neck of the woods so if you want to go down that route I'd be glad to help.

Best idea is just to contact them and ask!

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Ben Rubinstein
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« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2009, 07:42:39 AM »
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Just went onto their website, they intall the black IR filter on the sensor so you don't need it on the lens.
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yasinclair
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« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2009, 07:47:11 AM »
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Yes Beni, I know, but then you have to carry two cameras. I want to have the full spectrum and then use the equivalent of an opaque 'filter' in photoshop to take out all the visible light and leave just the IR. That way I can carry just one camera. BTW -- the work on my website is never larger than 5x4. Good Shabbos!  Yaakov Asher


Quote from: pom
Just went onto their website, they intall the black IR filter on the sensor so you don't need it on the lens.
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john beardsworth
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« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2009, 07:53:08 AM »
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You might at least try it with an IR lens filter on an unconverted camera. Exposure times shoot up, so you'll be tripod-bound but will get interesting cloud effects.
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Ben Rubinstein
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« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2009, 07:57:33 AM »
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Quote from: yasinclair
Yes Beni, I know, but then you have to carry two cameras. I want to have the full spectrum and then use the equivalent of an opaque 'filter' in photoshop to take out all the visible light and leave just the IR. That way I can carry just one camera. BTW -- the work on my website is never larger than 5x4. Good Shabbos!  Yaakov Asher

I bet two 5D's is still lighter than your 4X5  

There are photoshop actions that can fake IR but they aren't much good in my experience. I've tried it with an IR filter infront of the lens but with the L zooms I was using I just got nasty flare and even then didn't get anything looking like real IR. Sorry, thought you were an 8X10 shooter. I've been tempted by the idea of IR but I think it would be gimmicky for someone like me who isn't making a speciality and specific vision out of it like yourself.

Have a Good Shabbos yourself and regards to my father if you speak to him before I do (more than likely!   ).
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ddk
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« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2009, 09:03:27 AM »
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Quote from: yasinclair
Yes Beni, I know, but then you have to carry two cameras. I want to have the full spectrum and then use the equivalent of an opaque 'filter' in photoshop to take out all the visible light and leave just the IR. That way I can carry just one camera. BTW -- the work on my website is never larger than 5x4. Good Shabbos!  Yaakov Asher


Problem with full spectrum conversion is that you need to add filters for both your IR and visible light photography. Don't forget that you end up with the same inconveniences such as loosing f-stops and not being able to see through the finder with the dark IR filters on your lens as an unconverted camera.

I recommend maxmax.com over competitors, I know that his website isn't as good looking as lifepixel's but the work is first rate, call and talk to Dan and you'll get a better understanding of how things work. He's easy to reach and you'll need him if/when focusing issues occur. Unlike lifepixel that ties you down to some zoom, maxmax's conversion works with a wider variety of lenses and if you wanted you could customize your focus for one lens.

One more thing, full spectrum conversion is to give one the ability to shoot UV images with a filter set, its fine if you're going to do that type of photography as well. Otherwise, I don't see the point for any conversion if you're only going to shoot IR using filters.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2009, 09:24:42 AM by ddk » Logged

david
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« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2009, 09:54:06 AM »
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Don't forget that you end up with the same inconveniences such as loosing f-stops and not being able to see through the finder with the dark IR filters on your lens as an unconverted camera.
You'll still have the challenge of seeing through the view finder, but you will not lose f-stops. The long exposures are not caused by having an IR filter on the lens, they're caused by having an IR-blocking filter over the sensor. Once you remove that the camera is much more sensitive to IR. The only difference with full-spectrum conversion + IR filter on the lens is the fact that the IR filter is on the lens instead of on the sensor. The latter definitely has its advantages but they have nothing to do with exposure times.
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Lisa Nikodym
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« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2009, 11:21:14 AM »
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I recommend maxmax.com over competitors, I know that his website isn't as good looking as lifepixel's but the work is first rate, call and talk to Dan and you'll get a better understanding of how things work. He's easy to reach and you'll need him if/when focusing issues occur. Unlike lifepixel that ties you down to some zoom, maxmax's conversion works with a wider variety of lenses and if you wanted you could customize your focus for one lens.

I had the opposite experience.  I had my first conversion done by maxmax, and, despite all their "clean room" claims, it came back with a great deal of large crud stuck to the sensor that I couldn't clean off.  I sent it back to them for cleaning, which they did, but not very graciously or apologetically.

The second time I used lifepixel.  Perfectly clean sensor afterwards, and they even put a very useful custom white-balance in the camera memory that maxmax didn't.  Between the two, I'd far more recommend lifepixel.

I'm not sure what you mean when you compare them regarding the focusing issues.  The conversion people (either maxmax or lifepixel, both) can either tweak the IR focus to some generic average setting, which will be approximate for most things, or you can have them adjust the focus more precisely for the particular lens that you most use.  At least that's how I interpret what they do - if it isn't, please enlighten me as to how maxmax can perform that magic better than lifepixel, since it isn't clear from how you explain it...

I recommend carrying two cameras, one color and one converted to IR, rather than fiddling with filters and not being able to see through the lens.  I've done it both ways, and the former is far more pleasant and reliable.  The way I do it, the only extra item to carry is a camera body - you can use the same set of lenses  on both bodies, so it's not much more to carry.

Lisa
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AndyF
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« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2009, 11:40:06 AM »
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Quote from: yasinclair
I'm considering getting my Canon adapted by Lifepixel to be infrared sensitive.
They remove the factory filter in front of the sensor which stops IR getting through.
 This allows the full spectrum of to be read by the sensor.
 My question is after they do the conversion and remove the IR block filter -  could I do the filtering in photoshop afterward to achieve the effect of an opaque black and white filter which lets through only IR or would I need to use an opaque b and w IR filter in the field? (This would make shooting much easier as I wouldn't have to use a tripod and shoot 'blind')

Many thanks to all in advance
Yaakov Asher Sinclair
Visit My Websitehttp://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=34094&st=0&#
To your specific question, could you use some kind of filtering in PS to specifically remove the visible-light part of the exposure from the IR part of the exposure, no I don't see how that could be possible.  The sensor has already collected all the visible and IR energy coming in and the only separation that remains, is RGB.  It would depend how much IR blocking still exists in the colour filters on the RGB cells after the main IR filter has been removed.   The R channel likely has both IR and R exposure.  The G and B channels probably are less affected by the IR that is now arriving if the G and B filters are very sharp - but that info might be hard to find.

You'd have to experiment and find what filtering comes close enough to the image you like.  The PS filter would depend on the visible light levels.  Get a cheap camera modified first!

Andy
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ddk
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« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2009, 02:10:49 PM »
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I had the opposite experience.  I had my first conversion done by maxmax, and, despite all their "clean room" claims, it came back with a great deal of large crud stuck to the sensor that I couldn't clean off.  I sent it back to them for cleaning, which they did, but not very graciously or apologetically.

The second time I used lifepixel.  Perfectly clean sensor afterwards, and they even put a very useful custom white-balance in the camera memory that maxmax didn't.  Between the two, I'd far more recommend lifepixel.

I'm not sure what you mean when you compare them regarding the focusing issues.  The conversion people (either maxmax or lifepixel, both) can either tweak the IR focus to some generic average setting, which will be approximate for most things, or you can have them adjust the focus more precisely for the particular lens that you most use.  At least that's how I interpret what they do - if it isn't, please enlighten me as to how maxmax can perform that magic better than lifepixel, since it isn't clear from how you explain it...

I recommend carrying two cameras, one color and one converted to IR, rather than fiddling with filters and not being able to see through the lens.  I've done it both ways, and the former is far more pleasant and reliable.  The way I do it, the only extra item to carry is a camera body - you can use the same set of lenses  on both bodies, so it's not much more to carry.

Lisa

We have two very different experiences, with these vendors. In the past two years I've had maxmax convert 7 cameras for me and never had a problem with dirt, dust or otherwise. I had a negative experience contacting lp, it took them several days to return my calls. Then I was quoted a long turn around time and was faced with impatience when I asked about their different conversion strategies and told to read the website. On the other hand maxmax took the time to clearly explain the differences in results for each type of conversion. Regarding focus issues, at the time, I was told by lp that they only guarantee their focus with only the few lenses that they recommend on the their site, none of which I like or use. Maxmax has been very accommodating with my need to change lenses and we've setup different bodies to match focus for different groups of lenses. Further they've carried out other customizations that I requested in a timely and professional manner. In the end it all depends on your needs.
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david
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Geoff Wittig
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« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2009, 02:16:31 PM »
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Quote from: yasinclair
I'm considering getting my Canon adapted by Lifepixel to be infrared sensitive.
They remove the factory filter in front of the sensor which stops IR getting through.
 This allows the full spectrum of to be read by the sensor.
 My question is after they do the conversion and remove the IR block filter -  could I do the filtering in photoshop afterward to achieve the effect of an opaque black and white filter which lets through only IR or would I need to use an opaque b and w IR filter in the field? (This would make shooting much easier as I wouldn't have to use a tripod and shoot 'blind')

Many thanks to all in advance
Yaakov Asher Sinclair
Visit My Websitehttp://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=34094&st=0&#

Bite the bullet and have your Canon adapted to full-time infrared. You won't regret it.
I had my original Eos-1Ds converted by Lifepixel; the work was immaculate, not a single speck of dust on the sensor when delivered. I chose the "deep IR" option as I'm only using it for monochrome; the IR false color images just don't appeal to me. The resulting images are breathtaking; the conversion appears to have somehow improved the native sharpness of files from the camera, though I don't believe they actually remove the anti-aliasing filter. They reset the camera with a custom white balance that is perfect for IR work. The focus adjustment has proved good enough, though I'm shooting landscapes at relatively narrow apertures which will hide minor errors.

The capacity to shoot in the field using the viewfinder normally is just priceless. Before conversion I had experimented with opaque infrared filters on several digital cameras, which was incredibly difficult to do. (Compose the image and focus; lock everything down on tripod; mount opaque IR filter; realize you shifted focus; correct focus; shoot; "chimp" on the LCD; recognize that framing is off; recompose; reshoot; now the exposure is wrong; correct and shoot again; "chimp"; oops, now the focus is off again; lather, rinse, repeat....) After conversion the thing is just as easy to use as a regular camera, right down to hand-holdable shutter speeds in daylight.
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