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Author Topic: New PhaseOne - P40+  (Read 74974 times)
Steve Hendrix
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« Reply #20 on: April 28, 2009, 04:15:14 PM »
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Quote from: Guy Mancuso
Did anyone say it is the same LCD. No it has not been released officially YET.

 I would not assume anything until it is officially posted.


Guy, it is, and sorry to say, because it obscures some very positive features.


Steve Hendrix
Phase One
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Guy Mancuso
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« Reply #21 on: April 28, 2009, 04:23:33 PM »
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I deleted my post after I saw that , I actually missed that sorry folks. I do understand , there is just no room on the back for a bigger screen unless they moved the 4 buttons to the corners and that can cause problems as well. Funny thing is I JUST picked up my P30+ after selling my P25+. LOL . I kind of knew what was coming so not a big deal for me but someday i would like to upgrade to the P40 plus sounds SWEET and FAST. Steve would love to test it bud. LOL
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lisa_r
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« Reply #22 on: April 28, 2009, 04:32:59 PM »
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So can you tell us why Steve??

Funny, just saw this quote from cooter:

"Someday I assume somebody from medium format land is going to actually shoot a dslr side by side one of their cameras and realize how difficult they've made the process, simply because the lcd preview is so rough.

I've done it and a client will look at a Nikon D3 lcd vs. a Phase, point at the Nikon and say "use the big camera"."


Best,
« Last Edit: April 28, 2009, 04:38:43 PM by lisa_r » Logged
carstenw
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« Reply #23 on: April 28, 2009, 04:33:12 PM »
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Quote from: Steve Hendrix/Phase One
This is a Dalsa sensor. Think of it as a smaller (and much less expensive) version of the P65+. So, it will share similarities, including the long exposure limitations, same chassis, and yes - the LCD screen, unfortunately.

It would be really interesting to hear the board of directors' logic on not improving the screen, possibly the single-most, if not the *only* thing consistently criticised by absolutely everyone who has ever discussed Phase backs. Only good for histogram viewing is something I have heard too many times. At the very least it should be made bright enough to be viewed in full daylight.

Anyway, I actually wanted to ask something else: is Phase One now with Dalsa, instead of Kodak, or will there be more Kodak backs?
« Last Edit: April 28, 2009, 04:34:07 PM by carstenw » Logged

erick.boileau
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« Reply #24 on: April 28, 2009, 04:36:34 PM »
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1 minute exposure time , crappy LCD  , batteries  for a mobile phone
I have sold my P45  and it's good to know that Leica S2 is coming soon
« Last Edit: April 28, 2009, 04:42:49 PM by erick.boileau » Logged
uaiomex
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« Reply #25 on: April 28, 2009, 04:50:20 PM »
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This back kind of reminds me of the "me too" point&shoots
« Last Edit: April 28, 2009, 09:04:08 PM by uaiomex » Logged
paul_jones
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« Reply #26 on: April 28, 2009, 05:02:23 PM »
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Quote from: erick.boileau
1 minute exposure time , crappy LCD  , batteries  for a mobile phone
I have sold my P45  and it's good to know that Leica S2 is coming soon

i heard a rumour about a new back coming.... i was so hoping it would be a back that i would be excited about- but honestly, this is a real disappointment.  

The screen is a big issue. the sensor size is small. so what if it can shoot 1.2 frames a second- its hardly better than the p30+. iso is only any good at a useless 10MP.

im sure its sharper than the p30+ not having any microlenses, but the iso claim isnt any higher.

all this makes the leaf aptus look better and better (and ive owned both brands)- better screen, IMO better software, more image ontrol at the back, and fast shooting and cheap price (comparing an A75s).

paul
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tho_mas
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« Reply #27 on: April 28, 2009, 05:02:47 PM »
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Quote from: erick.boileau
1 minute exposure time
unsurprisingly that there is a crop version of the p65+ to come.
but the strategy is not understandable...
long exposure was a usp of the phase backs. so capture one v3 was.
now long exposure is limited to the expiring product line and capture one v4 is still far away from v3 regarding workflow speed and overall responsiveness (and stability on older computer systems).
"sensor +" might be a kind of usp but very hard to sell against current hi res dslr as long as "sensor +" is limited to a quarter of the resolution.
the p65+ still has the usp "full frame" (and highest resolution).
what is the usp of the p40+ compared to the p45/+ or the p30/+ and over the similar backs of leaf, sinar, hasselblad?
the price maybe?
strange...


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feppe
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« Reply #28 on: April 28, 2009, 05:13:10 PM »
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Quote from: tho_mas
unsurprisingly that there is a crop version of the p65+ to come.
but the strategy is not understandable...
long exposure was a usp of the phase backs. so capture one v3 was.
now long exposure is limited to the expiring product line and capture one v4 is still far away from v3 regarding workflow speed and overall responsiveness (and stability on older computer systems).
"sensor +" might be a kind of usp but very hard to sell against current hi res dslr as long as "sensor +" is limited to a quarter of the resolution.
the p65+ still has the usp "full frame" (and highest resolution).
what is the usp of the p40+ compared to the p45/+ or the p30/+ and over the similar backs of leaf, sinar, hasselblad?
the price maybe?
strange...

usp?
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tho_mas
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« Reply #29 on: April 28, 2009, 05:15:27 PM »
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Quote from: feppe
usp?
unique selling proposition
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carstenw
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« Reply #30 on: April 28, 2009, 05:17:28 PM »
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Quote from: feppe
usp?

Unique Selling Point? Just guessing here...
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tho_mas
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« Reply #31 on: April 28, 2009, 05:19:36 PM »
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Quote from: carstenw
Unique Selling Point?
no ;-)
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #32 on: April 28, 2009, 05:20:52 PM »
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Quote from: carstenw
Unique Selling Point? Just guessing here...

It can be both proposition or point.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unique_selling_proposition
« Last Edit: April 28, 2009, 05:21:24 PM by foto-z » Logged

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Steve Hendrix
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« Reply #33 on: April 28, 2009, 05:24:18 PM »
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Quote from: carstenw
It would be really interesting to hear the board of directors' logic on not improving the screen, possibly the single-most, if not the *only* thing consistently criticised by absolutely everyone who has ever discussed Phase backs. Only good for histogram viewing is something I have heard too many times. At the very least it should be made bright enough to be viewed in full daylight.

Anyway, I actually wanted to ask something else: is Phase One now with Dalsa, instead of Kodak, or will there be more Kodak backs?

Carsten - we utilize both Dalsa and Kodak sensors.



Quote from: erick.boileau
1 minute exposure time , crappy LCD  , batteries  for a mobile phone
I have sold my P45  and it's good to know that Leica S2 is coming soon

Eric - you sold your P45 with long exposures, you're looking at Leica S2 and you criticize the P40+ for not having long exposures?  



Quote from: paul_jones
i heard a rumour about a new back coming.... i was so hoping it would be a back that i would be excited about- but honestly, this is a real disappointment.  

The screen is a big issue. the sensor size is small. so what if it can shoot 1.2 frames a second- its hardly better than the p30+. iso is only any good at a useless 10MP.

im sure its sharper than the p30+ not having any microlenses, but the iso claim isnt any higher.

all this makes the leaf aptus look better and better (and ive owned both brands)- better screen, IMO better software, more image ontrol at the back, and fast shooting and cheap price (comparing an A75s).

paul

Paul - yes, the screen is a big issue, guilty as charged. The sensor size is the same size as a P30+, 5mm x 4mm smaller than P45+ (4mm x 3mm smaller than Aptus 75s). We already have a large sensor size, this is a different type of product. Speed-wise, 1.2 frames per second is a lot faster than the P30+ at one frame every 1.25 seconds, that is a significant difference. The high ISO even at 40MP appears to me 2 stops better than P25+/P45+, very close to P30+. You are welcome to your opinion about the Aptus - I disagree on most counts.


Quote from: tho_mas
what is the usp of the p40+ compared to the p45/+ or the p30/+ and over the similar backs of leaf, sinar, hasselblad?
the price maybe?
strange...

Compared to P45+: Way faster, slightly higher resolution, better high ISO, less expensive
Compared to P30+: Faster, able to use on view cameras with no LCC in most cases
There are no exactly similar Hasselblad or Leaf products. The most similar products that come to mind are H3DII-31 or Aptus 65s, but P40+ shoots faster than both, will work on view cameras (unlike H3DII-31) and has better high ISO than Aptus 65s.

And the pricing is a definite USP (not sure what that stands for, but I think I have your meaning).


Steve Hendrix
Phase One

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Steve Hendrix
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bcooter
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« Reply #34 on: April 28, 2009, 05:26:14 PM »
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Quote from: Guy Mancuso
there is just no room on the back for a bigger screen


What?

Did Phase get a deal if the bought a lifetime supply of black metal boxes with a small hole?

OK, even if they got the 20,000 unit discount how about an lcd as good as the original 1ds?

And since were on the subject what is the real difference between 40mpx and 31mpx.

I wish them luck, but I don't get it.


B
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paul_jones
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« Reply #35 on: April 28, 2009, 05:34:53 PM »
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Quote from: Steve Hendrix/Phase One
Carsten - we utilize both Dalsa and Kodak sensors.





Eric - you sold your P45 with long exposures, you're looking at Leica S2 and you criticize the P40+ for not having long exposures?  





Paul - yes, the screen is a big issue, guilty as charged. The sensor size is the same size as a P30+, 5mm x 4mm smaller than P45+ (4mm x 3mm smaller than Aptus 75s). We already have a large sensor size, this is a different type of product. Speed-wise, 1.2 frames per second is a lot faster than the P30+ at one frame every 1.25 seconds, that is a significant difference. The high ISO even at 40MP appears to me 2 stops better than P25+/P45+, very close to P30+. You are welcome to your opinion about the Aptus - I disagree on most counts.




Compared to P45+: Way faster, slightly higher resolution, better high ISO, less expensive
Compared to P30+: Faster, able to use on view cameras with no LCC in most cases
There are no exactly similar Hasselblad or Leaf products. The most similar products that come to mind are H3DII-31 or Aptus 65s, but P40+ shoots faster than both, will work on view cameras (unlike H3DII-31) and has better high ISO than Aptus 65s.

And the pricing is a definite USP (not sure what that stands for, but I think I have your meaning).


Steve Hendrix
Phase One

sorry steve- yes, the back is a lot faster, i read the specs wrong.

still, i was hoping for more. i like to blown away by new product releases, and most times i am-    apples new laptops, nikons(and canons) new cameras, new cars, these all make me want to find the money to upgrade. but this anouncement has left me flat.

paul
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tho_mas
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« Reply #36 on: April 28, 2009, 05:37:29 PM »
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Quote from: Steve Hendrix/Phase One
Compared to P45+: Way faster, slightly higher resolution, better high ISO, less expensive
Compared to P30+: Faster, able to use on view cameras with no LCC in most cases
but less wide angle as the p45 due to the lens factor. yes... maybe a compromise of p45 and p30 - actually a faster p30 without micro lenses and with the resolution of the p45. and improved iq wise.
i'm still curious how well wide angle lenses perform with the 6 micron sensor at larger movements.
improvements regarding colour cast are very welcome.
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ziocan
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« Reply #37 on: April 28, 2009, 05:38:56 PM »
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Quote from: paul_jones
i heard a rumour about a new back coming.... i was so hoping it would be a back that i would be excited about- but honestly, this is a real disappointment.  

The screen is a big issue. the sensor size is small. so what if it can shoot 1.2 frames a second- its hardly better than the p30+. iso is only any good at a useless 10MP.

im sure its sharper than the p30+ not having any microlenses, but the iso claim isnt any higher.

all this makes the leaf aptus look better and better (and ive owned both brands)- better screen, IMO better software, more image ontrol at the back, and fast shooting and cheap price (comparing an A75s).

paul
the irony of the faster recycle time is that as soon as I need faster than 1 fps, I'm better off shooting with a 20mp+ dslr, because of AF speed and reliability. (maybe not with a 5d though)
If I need more than 1fps, it means that my subject is moving and on that case any dslr will deliver more good shots and sharper photos than all these MF AF systems, including the upcoming Leica and the well regarded Hasselblad.




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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #38 on: April 28, 2009, 05:50:15 PM »
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Quote from: ziocan
the irony of the faster recycle time is that as soon as I need faster than 1 fps, I'm better off shooting with a 20mp+ dslr, because of AF speed and reliability. (maybe not with a 5d though)
If I need more than 1fps, it means that my subject is moving and on that case any dslr will deliver more good shots and sharper photos than all these MF AF systems, including the upcoming Leica and the well regarded Hasselblad.

For better or for worse a LOT of fashion shooters are pushing past 1 fps in just standard shooting. This back is almost twice as fast as a P30+ which is the current fashion-king (at least in the rental market that I know: South Beach / South Florida).

For those shooters this will be very welcome speed.


Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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JeffVo
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« Reply #39 on: April 28, 2009, 05:56:13 PM »
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Drat!  Phase, can I have P50+ pretty please?  You know the one with the 50mp KODAK sensor that Hassy Happens to use?  That way the Phase faithful can have long exposure and a decent sized chip.  Pretty please? As I see it 9mp and faster shooting isnt making me want to trade in my P30+ anytime soon.  Does anyone know if RED has a trade in deal on MFD gear? ;-)
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