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Author Topic: Abstraction and balance  (Read 2283 times)
John R
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« on: May 04, 2009, 05:37:42 AM »
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Just a a couple of shots of an industrial building that I pass by almost every day. The one with the shadow is far more pleasing and striking to the eye than the photo can do it justice.

JMR
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dalethorn
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« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2009, 04:03:01 PM »
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There are some good ideas here. Here's my take:
In #1, the top part is interesting, but the bottom doesn't see to complement the top part. I'd just chop it off, unless there were some way to change it. In #3, the yellow frame looks like a cage, kind of a protective cage around instruments to keep things like people and forklifts from bumping the instruments. This is good, since I can relate some sort of function to it.  In #2, though, the yellow bars didn't give me that impression, and seemed to be a distraction from the interesting goodies in the background.  If all I were looking at were #2, I'd prefer the yellow be a more muted color.
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jule
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« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2009, 05:38:37 PM »
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John,
Without starting a discussion on what abstraction is or isn't (search other threads here and you will be able to read further), i think you need to push way further.

If you want geometrical elements, just include geometrical elements. Ask yourself what is important in the image. In the second image, for example, ask yourself whether the vertical leaves of grass at the bottom are important. What do they contribute to the image? If your answer is 'nothing' then get rid of it!

From my experience it is the fine details which really make a difference in an image. It is also about deciding on omission, and being unscrupulous with regard to discerning what should be included in an image.

You may in the third image want the grass at the bottom with the little yellow flower, and perhaps you want to make a statement that nothing has been protected in this yellow frame for a while because everything is growing... or the contrast between nature and construction??? whatever??? but visually it really needs to be strong as well.

Just to illustrate my first point about omission and creating strong geometry without distractions I have done 2 quick examples. They are no way intended as an improvement on your third image, just an opportunity to illustrate my point about making strong geometrical images.


[attachment=13477:May_2_09...ptxcrop2.jpg]

[attachment=13476:May_2_09...ptxcrop1.jpg]


On a side issue, I really find your initials very distracting in your images. Just wondering what your intention is to include your initials so prominently on your images you share here?

Julie
« Last Edit: May 04, 2009, 05:46:24 PM by jule » Logged

John R
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« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2009, 07:55:38 PM »
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Quote from: dalethorn
There are some good ideas here. Here's my take:
In #1, the top part is interesting, but the bottom doesn't see to complement the top part. I'd just chop it off, unless there were some way to change it. In #3, the yellow frame looks like a cage, kind of a protective cage around instruments to keep things like people and forklifts from bumping the instruments. This is good, since I can relate some sort of function to it.  In #2, though, the yellow bars didn't give me that impression, and seemed to be a distraction from the interesting goodies in the background.  If all I were looking at were #2, I'd prefer the yellow be a more muted color.
In the first image, the scene is very visually striking to the human eye, much more so than in the image. I really didn't want to crop it to death, so I decided to include the grass foreground and put it out of focus as much as possible. Maybe could have done it with a F2.8 or larger F-stop, which I do not have. Anyway, these I shot these because I was attracted to the colours and shapes and trying to balance them and not much else. If later someone happens to see something of signicance, symbolic or otherwise, it is unconcious. Thanks for the comments.

JMR
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John R
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« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2009, 08:14:49 PM »
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Quote from: jule
John,
Without starting a discussion on what abstraction is or isn't (search other threads here and you will be able to read further), i think you need to push way further.

If you want geometrical elements, just include geometrical elements. Ask yourself what is important in the image. In the second image, for example, ask yourself whether the vertical leaves of grass at the bottom are important. What do they contribute to the image? If your answer is 'nothing' then get rid of it!

From my experience it is the fine details which really make a difference in an image. It is also about deciding on omission, and being unscrupulous with regard to discerning what should be included in an image.

You may in the third image want the grass at the bottom with the little yellow flower, and perhaps you want to make a statement that nothing has been protected in this yellow frame for a while because everything is growing... or the contrast between nature and construction??? whatever??? but visually it really needs to be strong as well.

Just to illustrate my first point about omission and creating strong geometry without distractions I have done 2 quick examples. They are no way intended as an improvement on your third image, just an opportunity to illustrate my point about making strong geometrical images.


On a side issue, I really find your initials very distracting in your images. Just wondering what your intention is to include your initials so prominently on your images you share here?

Julie
These were meant simply as abstracts. I take it some people just don't agree on what an abstract is or should be. Just semantics, call them non-reprentational if that makes much difference. I agree in general with your comments, and I like your crops. But with these types of images, one can crop them to death and see even more ways to depict the shapes and colours, and of course, some will be stronger compositions than others, and suggest different things, as you said. BTW, I included the green grass because I wanted the green as a colour in the composition to juxtapose against the other colours and shapes. Mostly whimsy.

My initials are simply for copyright purposes. I know many people don't like them, but that is the maker's prerogative. I have had some bad experiences. Thanks for your comments Julie.

JMR
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dalethorn
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« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2009, 09:36:29 PM »
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Quote from: jule
Just to illustrate my first point about omission and creating strong geometry without distractions I have done 2 quick examples. They are no way intended as an improvement on your third image, just an opportunity to illustrate my point about making strong geometrical images.
Julie

Amazing what a tiny difference makes.  I saw the first and thought eh?  Then the second, and yeah, that's really good.  Ya never can tell.
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jule
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« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2009, 10:39:27 PM »
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Quote from: John R
I. I really didn't want to crop it to death,
JMR
Don't forget John that we crop all the time by using our feet for fixed lenses, and through using the lens if it has zoom.

I do realise that cropping does make a huge difference in resolution for enlargmnets if that was the reason you were reluctant to crop, rather that through principle.

Julie
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jule
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« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2009, 10:40:44 PM »
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Quote from: dalethorn
Amazing what a tiny difference makes.  I saw the first and thought eh?  Then the second, and yeah, that's really good.  Ya never can tell.
Yep, that's why I always find it fun to experiment and play with images. You just never quite know !

Julie
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John R
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« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2009, 04:17:19 PM »
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Quote from: jule
Don't forget John that we crop all the time by using our feet for fixed lenses, and through using the lens if it has zoom.

I do realise that cropping does make a huge difference in resolution for enlargmnets if that was the reason you were reluctant to crop, rather that through principle.

Julie
I learned to crop, first and foremost, in the viewfinder, as I come from the slide film era. As a rule of thumb, I do limit most cropping to small amounts or the periphery or for special cases. I find digital cropping is so easy that people feel free to crop needlessly or make comments that are not helpful. A real problem on the net. I want to make it clear I do not mean you, as your comments are relevant and helpful, just in general. One of the things I dislike about my Pentax, is, you only see about 80% percent of the view. A real pain when critical composing is necessary.

JMR
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popnfresh
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« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2009, 06:17:14 PM »
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Of the three, the first one is the most interesting composition, but I keep wanting to see more light on the trees
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RSL
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« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2009, 03:00:34 PM »
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John,

I pretty much agree with Julie, but instead of cropping I'd go back and re-shoot. This isn't exactly street photography where your subject has moved on. The other thing you might think about is this:

[attachment=13646:May_2_09...ptxcopy3.jpg]
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