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Author Topic: Let's talk about Briese!  (Read 9659 times)
yashima
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« on: May 04, 2009, 09:26:49 AM »
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Hello everyone, my first post.

I think its quite fascinating to see how popular lighting in fashion photography has changed over the years. From big softbox, to fresnel, ringflash, beauty disc, to focused soft light (Briese, Broncolor Para, Profoto Giant) at the moment. I have not had the chance to try any of the current generation focused softlight mainly because of the price but have heard mystical things about its light quality.

How exactly would you define it? And is it truely unreplicatable with other fixtures? Of course we cant beat it for its simplicity and beauty in its own right. But how about a strobe in fresnel adaptor, with a diffuser screen wrapping outside? Fresnel adaptor for strobe has always been my favorite with the option of putting diffuser screen at different distance creating different wrapping effect.


Your thoughts would be much appreciated.

Mike

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michaelnotar
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« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2009, 01:27:42 AM »
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Quote from: yashima
Hello everyone, my first post.

I think its quite fascinating to see how popular lighting in fashion photography has changed over the years. From big softbox, to fresnel, ringflash, beauty disc, to focused soft light (Briese, Broncolor Para, Profoto Giant) at the moment. I have not had the chance to try any of the current generation focused softlight mainly because of the price but have heard mystical things about its light quality.

How exactly would you define it? And is it truely unreplicatable with other fixtures? Of course we cant beat it for its simplicity and beauty in its own right. But how about a strobe in fresnel adaptor, with a diffuser screen wrapping outside? Fresnel adaptor for strobe has always been my favorite with the option of putting diffuser screen at different distance creating different wrapping effect.


Your thoughts would be much appreciated.

Mike

havent used the briese but have set one up. i like mola, kindof the same thing. mola softlight oversized beauty dishes are very nice. wide throw, wrap around, shape defining, no hotspots like the sun...hazy sunlight. i would expect the same type of thing with a huge parabolic. they range from 22, 33, 38, 42 inch i think, i got the 33 for $700.

i have fresnel tungsten lights, 6" and 12" diameter glass, flood to focus doesnt change shadows that much, it does, but not by alot. its broad, even light, crisp shadows. i have heard the 10,000watt tungsten lights, 24-29+ inch fresnels, get a nice wrap around, but require half the power of residential home to operate, and weight something like 140 lbs+.

with my 12" (2000w) tungsten light, when i shoot product at 2-3ft, it is a nice quality of light.

if you are going to diffuse fresnel light, it needs to be bigger than the light, otherwise it doesnt diffuse that much. its a matter of size. but when you fly a big diffusion flat, you have created a softbox.

i went on a quest for the perfect light a year ago and found the molas. also almost all my softboxes dont have interior diffusion, just front and 40 degree grids. it really gives them new life being controllable and directional. i have and have been told that the photoflex large 36x48 inch cine dome (twice as deep from head to front and silver inside for fresnel tungsten lighting but equally at home with strobe) is very much like the biggest mola, but at only $250 vs $950-1000 for the huge mola.
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bcooter
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« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2009, 10:13:35 AM »
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Quote from: michaelnotar
havent used the briese but have set one up. i like mola, kindof the same thing. mola softlight oversized beauty dishes are very nice. wide throw, wrap around, shape defining, no hotspots like the sun...hazy sunlight. i would expect the same type of thing with a huge parabolic. they range from 22, 33, 38, 42 inch i think, i got the 33 for $700.

i have fresnel tungsten lights, 6" and 12" diameter glass, flood to focus doesnt change shadows that much, it does, but not by alot. its broad, even light, crisp shadows. i have heard the 10,000watt tungsten lights, 24-29+ inch fresnels, get a nice wrap around, but require half the power of residential home to operate, and weight something like 140 lbs+.

with my 12" (2000w) tungsten light, when i shoot product at 2-3ft, it is a nice quality of light.

if you are going to diffuse fresnel light, it needs to be bigger than the light, otherwise it doesnt diffuse that much. its a matter of size. but when you fly a big diffusion flat, you have created a softbox.

i went on a quest for the perfect light a year ago and found the molas. also almost all my softboxes dont have interior diffusion, just front and 40 degree grids. it really gives them new life being controllable and directional. i have and have been told that the photoflex large 36x48 inch cine dome (twice as deep from head to front and silver inside for fresnel tungsten lighting but equally at home with strobe) is very much like the biggest mola, but at only $250 vs $950-1000 for the huge mola.



The Briese are nice but expensive.   The large parabolics obviously have a more diffused, softer look, the smaller are more direct, somewhat like a slightly diffused Frensel.  Actually any parabolic reflector with 1/4 stop of diffusion will get very close to the same look.

Don't take this wrong, but a lot of the Briese attraction is they are impressive when a client walks into the room and it puts on a good show, though once again, a somewhat expensive show.  I've seen them on sets where they are used behind a 12x rags and that all that really makes is one big soft light, which would give no different effect than just running a big softbox behind a 12x.

Still, the show is the show.  

There is a story that floats around New York about this fashionista that always rents a dozen profoto frensels and places them high.  He doesn't call them frensels he calls them flutters and starts yelling turn on all the flutters, (which makes for an awful look), then he says turn on flutter 6, 7, and 2 and keeps this going for a while until the only thing running is one frensel.  

That looks good and the clients say "oh ________ your such a master of lighting".

Gotta love this business.

B
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2009, 10:42:50 AM »
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Quote from: bcooter
Still, the show is the show.  

There is a story that floats around New York about this fashionista that always rents a dozen profoto frensels and places them high.  He doesn't call them frensels he calls them flutters and starts yelling turn on all the flutters, (which makes for an awful look), then he says turn on flutter 6, 7, and 2 and keeps this going for a while until the only thing running is one frensel.  

That looks good and the clients say "oh ________ your such a master of lighting".

Gotta love this business.

Haha, that made me laugh out loud. It shouldn't be possible but somehow I wouldn't be surprised...
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heinrichvoelkel
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« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2009, 11:38:25 AM »
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Quote from: bcooter
He doesn't call them frensels he calls them flutters and starts yelling turn on all the flutters,

So the guy must be German, because very often the fresnels are called "fluter" around here ( comes from flut=flood).


Actually the Briese make a nice light and if you can afford one, it is a easy and fast way to create a specific look without too much hassle.
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bcooter
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« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2009, 11:49:52 AM »
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Quote from: heinrichvoelkel
So the guy must be German, because very often the fresnels are called "fluter" around here ( comes from flut=flood).


Actually the Briese make a nice light and if you can afford one, it is a easy and fast way to create a specific look without too much hassle.



Yes, he's from out of the U.S., but then again if you took all of the foreign born fashion photographers out of New York, there would be only 1 rental studio and it would only be booked for editorial.

People with foreign accents are always more talented, look at Madonna, she's English you know.

But back to the subject, the Briese are nice, so are the Broncolor Parabolics, though they are studio bound.  working them on location is a chore.

B
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Snook
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« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2009, 11:59:41 AM »
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Quote from: heinrichvoelkel
So the guy must be German, because very often the fresnels are called "fluter" around here ( comes from flut=flood).


Actually the Briese make a nice light and if you can afford one, it is a easy and fast way to create a specific look without too much hassle.

Is anybody else in the fashion business turned off by the Big catch light in the eyes?
I have the 2 meter one and it just is to big for my liking and or my studio is too small for it...:+}

Everytime I see the catchlights so big in a person eyes I really do not like it at all.

Plus add the expense and there are alternatives for sure that are much more economical...
Snook
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BJNY
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« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2009, 12:38:59 PM »
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Quote from: bcooter
There is a story that floats around New York about this fashionista that always rents a dozen profoto frensels and places them high.  He doesn't call them frensels he calls them flutters and starts yelling turn on all the flutters, (which makes for an awful look), then he says turn on flutter 6, 7, and 2 and keeps this going for a while until the only thing running is one frensel.  

That looks good and the clients say "oh ________ your such a master of lighting".

Gotta love this business.

B

  STOP making fun of me, BC.

Broncolor's 300mm fresnel is called Flooter
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller...G&A=details


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Guillermo
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« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2009, 12:55:16 PM »
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Quote from: heinrichvoelkel
So the guy must be German, because very often the fresnels are called "fluter" around here ( comes from flut=flood).


Actually the Briese make a nice light and if you can afford one, it is a easy and fast way to create a specific look without too much hassle.


he must have been be a broncolor user.. their large fresnel is called  Flooter..
 
I rented my studio once to a well known fashion guy shooting sharon stone cover for W and I was pleased to see him do the same as I did,
just dump a couple of heads into butterflied foam core.. I was pleased to see sharon as well.

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heinrichvoelkel
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« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2009, 01:04:37 PM »
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Quote from: paulmoorestudio
he must have been be a broncolor user.. their large fresnel is called  Flooter..
 
I rented my studio once to a well known fashion guy shooting sharon stone cover for W and I was pleased to see him do the same as I did,
just dump a couple of heads into butterflied foam core.. I was pleased to see sharon as well.
the bron guys are swiss, but from the part that is speaking German
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Frank Doorhof
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« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2009, 01:57:07 PM »
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I love the big focusable umbrellas.
I don't use the briese but the Elinchrom 1.90 octa with difussion panel removed, and I will be testing something else soon that is deeper.

The bit advantage of the deep and large umbrella like solutions is that you can stand in front of it and have a very even light output but also some nice edgy contrast.
I always compare it to a VERY SOFT ringflash.

It all depends on what and how you use it.

In the end you must have a vision for the shoot and find the light solution that helps you getting there.
I absolulty love the Elinchrom Deep octa which uses the same techniques but in a smaller size.
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TMARK
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« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2009, 02:10:26 PM »
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I use the Briese, the big ones, for top lights on music videos, HMI of course.  You can get a similar look with any big umbrella that can focus, Brons better than Profoto's old Giants.  The Briese has  acertain texture to the light that is, well, dry.  It soulnds strange but yes, I think its due to the reflective coating.

You can get a similar look with fresnels and pars, but it takes more rigging than its worth.  If you have some grips its not so bad, but it takes time.  Its much easier to toss op a Briese.  The small Briese, the 77, is really nice with HMI.  Portable for location, focusable, just great for head shots.

I will never own because they are retarded expensive.  Renting is easier in London and LA than in NYC.  Only place I've been able to get them in NY is at Pier 59. They are all over LA, sort of.

Someone mentioned the Molas.  Yes.  I have the Euro, Demi, and Seti.  The Euro and Demi are the same shape, different size (22" and 33").  The Seti is like a bigger (and MUCH better) Magnum reflecter, i.e. its deep with fast fall off.  After getting these reflectors a few years ago my softboxes languish in their cases unless I can't use a reflector because of space issues.  

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TMARK
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« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2009, 02:14:53 PM »
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Quote from: Frank Doorhof
I love the big focusable umbrellas.
I don't use the briese but the Elinchrom 1.90 octa with difussion panel removed, and I will be testing something else soon that is deeper.

The bit advantage of the deep and large umbrella like solutions is that you can stand in front of it and have a very even light output but also some nice edgy contrast.
I always compare it to a VERY SOFT ringflash.

It all depends on what and how you use it.

In the end you must have a vision for the shoot and find the light solution that helps you getting there.
I absolulty love the Elinchrom Deep octa which uses the same techniques but in a smaller size.

I like the deep throat Octa but it is such a pain to assemble that I just don't use it, unless I can keep it assembled.  The Mola Seti does about the same thing, but is better and is focusable (to a degree) when using Profoto heads.  The Big El Octa is a classic, and despite not being focusable is very versitile.  Make it super soft with a silk or two, make it harder shooting bare, flag off part of it, use some light tools grid cloth for a tighter top light etc . . .
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heinrichvoelkel
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« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2009, 03:02:34 PM »
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Quote from: TMARK
Someone mentioned the Molas.  Yes.  I have the Euro, Demi, and Seti.  The Euro and Demi are the same shape, different size (22" and 33").  The Seti is like a bigger (and MUCH better) Magnum reflecter, i.e. its deep with fast fall off.  After getting these reflectors a few years ago my softboxes languish in their cases unless I can't use a reflector because of space issues.

One question Tmark, how do carry the Molas on location? Do you fly with them?
« Last Edit: May 05, 2009, 03:03:27 PM by heinrichvoelkel » Logged
TMARK
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« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2009, 03:11:56 PM »
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Quote from: heinrichvoelkel
One question Tmark, how do carry the Molas on location? Do you fly with them?

Depends on the location.  I do not fly with them.  I keep the Molas in either a bass drum case, the original box, or they store with the foam edge protector face down in the original box.  In town its no big deal as long as we have a vehicle to rent.

The profoto reflector sticks out from the back of the reflector making them difficult to fit in any sort of box.  The base drum cases work but must be cut down, otherwise they are too deep.
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mmurph
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« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2009, 06:31:32 PM »
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Quote from: TMARK
They are all over LA, sort of.

Yeah, in every fashion oriented commercial on TV too, but only as props.    

I suppose that is the death knell in a sense, like a ringflsh in the 1980's?  Hope not, I have too much invested.  I sold a Para 220 a year ago, regretted it, and just bought another.  The 170 i have was a little too small for full body use closer in, but easier to use on location.  I would love a 330, of course, but no airline hanger to use it in ....

Best,
Michael
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Frank Doorhof
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« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2009, 02:31:43 AM »
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@TMARK,
Which version of the deep octa do you use (if there are different versions anyway).

I travel with mine all the time.
Just lay the speedring on the floor and open it as un umbrella, dig in en click the little end stoppers in the speedring.
For dissasembling the same procedure, lay it on the floor and pull the end stoppers out of the speedring.

It takes me 20-30 seconds to set up and take down.


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Rick_Allen
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« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2009, 03:54:03 AM »
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I find that putting it on a stand folded and then walk into it a lot easier. Same taking it down just hold onto the handle before you release.
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ixpressraf
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« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2009, 05:21:45 AM »
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I just got the profoto giant 240. I thought to know some use for it but it turns out to be a bad investement since i do not do people photography. Altough, i made some test photo's using it and the light quality was unseen to me untill photoshoot. really beuatifull light, nice dark areas and wonderfull to the edge of the person...... just love it........
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Conner999
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« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2009, 07:32:57 AM »
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The DO is MUCH easier to fold if instead of pressing the ribs down at the knurled lock knobs to disengage them, you press down 1-2 inches out from the knurled lock knob on the rib itself. Takes about 30 secs to fold one.
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