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Author Topic: B&W Printing: Creating the Digital Master Print  (Read 21443 times)
wolfnowl
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« on: May 18, 2009, 01:43:49 AM »
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Hi Folks:

Andrew over at the Tao of Photography has an interesting write-up on this new book about creating digital prints from B&W images.  Sounds good enough to make me want to check it out...

Mike.

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KeithR
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« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2009, 09:03:12 AM »
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Thanks for the info! I'll have to check it out.
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kikashi
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« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2009, 02:29:44 PM »
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Quote from: wolfnowl
Hi Folks:

Andrew over at the Tao of Photography has an interesting write-up on this new book about creating digital prints from B&W images.  Sounds good enough to make me want to check it out...

Mike.
Well, he certainly liked it! I don't have many books on photography, but the reveiew suggests that this might be a good one to get.  It's not listed on amazon.co.uk (yet). Thanks for the pointer.

Jeremy
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JeffKohn
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« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2009, 02:36:27 PM »
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I went ahead and ordered given the relatively affordable price, I enjoy reading books about photography and haven't picked up a new one in a while. I don't have huge expectations that it will be some revelation about B/W printing, I can't imagine there's too much ground to cover that hasn't already been covered in other similarly-themed books. But if it's an interesting read and well-printed  (which sounds to be the case from Andy's review), I'll be happy with it even if it doesn't radically change my approach to digital B/W.
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Philip Weber
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« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2009, 06:24:30 PM »
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Quote from: wolfnowl
Hi Folks:

Andrew over at the Tao of Photography has an interesting write-up on this new book about creating digital prints from B&W images.  Sounds good enough to make me want to check it out...

Mike.



Does anyone have any experience with the author's software - PercepTool?

Phil
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Kevin Gallagher
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« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2009, 04:03:03 AM »
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Thanks Mike, I wasn't aware of this site, lots of good reading!!
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geotzo
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« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2009, 04:39:14 AM »
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Has anyone got it yet? It appears to be in stock on Amazon.com. Is that true?
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Philip Weber
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« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2009, 01:33:24 PM »
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Quote from: geotzo
Has anyone got it yet? It appears to be in stock on Amazon.com. Is that true?


Yes, they have it. Mine is due tomorrow.

Phil
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slc
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« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2009, 02:16:53 PM »
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Quote from: Philip Weber
Does anyone have any experience with the author's software - PercepTool?

Phil

Yes, I just had a workshop with George DeWolfe and we used the PercepTool and it is a MUST HAVE. The Windows version is currently in beta testing and should be available soon - I'm waiting very eagerly and may not edit any more images until I have it. It makes a huge difference - takes images from flat to presence. It is much more than just a contrast adjustment.

  - slc
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JeffKohn
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« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2009, 03:39:15 PM »
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My copy of the book arrived yesterday. I only had a chance to read the first chapter, and it read a bit like a promotional piece for PercepTool. Hopefully the whole book is not like that. Chapter 1 doesn't go into details of exactly what PercepTool does, but from the before/after samples it seems primarily for increasing global and local contrast.
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Philip Weber
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« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2009, 04:52:41 PM »
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Quote from: slc
Yes, I just had a workshop with George DeWolfe and we used the PercepTool and it is a MUST HAVE. The Windows version is currently in beta testing and should be available soon - I'm waiting very eagerly and may not edit any more images until I have it. It makes a huge difference - takes images from flat to presence. It is much more than just a contrast adjustment.

  - slc


Thanks for the reply. I'm on a PC too and waiting.

In terms of work flow, where did he have you applying it? Since he's a LR user (as am I) is he doing the basic conversion to B&W, then exporting the image (RAW or TIFF?) into CS4 for the PercepTool edit? I assume doing a curves adjustment after that doesn't mess anything up that the plug-in achieved.

Any info on how one would use the thing is appreciated!

Phil
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daws
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« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2009, 09:37:40 PM »
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Quote from: slc
The Windows version is currently in beta testing and should be available soon -

Anyone have any info on an ETA for release?


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Kirk Gittings
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« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2009, 11:06:42 PM »
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I got mine today from Amazon. Looks like classic. George was my mentor a bit for digital printing and this book looks like a great update of his methodology.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2009, 11:09:17 PM by Kirk Gittings » Logged

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Kirk

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MarkL
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« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2009, 06:47:30 AM »
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There is so much on the net about b&w conversion methods, inkjet printing and best papers for b&w etc. is there much in this book that has not been discussed before?

Also, there is little information on what his magical plugin actually does other than marketing speak.
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mbridgers
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« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2009, 09:52:51 AM »
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Quote from: daws
Anyone have any info on an ETA for release?
I picked up a copy at Barnes and Noble yesterday here in the North Atlanta area.  Haven't had a chance to really even open it, though, but flipping through, it seemed interesting enough to make my buy it.

I did enjoy and learn from DeWolfe's other book on digital printing, "Digital Photography Fine Print Workshop", which is why I was pre-disposed to pop for this one.
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JeffKohn
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« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2009, 10:11:48 AM »
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I've read the first three chapters so far now. Up to this point it has been pretty vague, although getting into subsequent chapters will hopefully have a little more meat as he starts discussing the workflow in more detail. He keeps mentioning PercepTool, but I'm still not clear on what exactly it does.

Quote
PercepTool takes the image made in the digital camera sensor (also called luminance image) and changes it into what our brain actually perceives.
Sounds like marketing mumbo-jumbo to me. From the before/after samples it seems like an automated contrast enhancement tool. I also find it interesting that the books says you can purchase PercepTool for "only $19.95" but his website says it will cost $89.95.

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Alan Goldhammer
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« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2009, 10:24:32 AM »
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Quote from: JeffKohn
Sounds like marketing mumbo-jumbo to me. From the before/after samples it seems like an automated contrast enhancement tool. I also find it interesting that the books says you can purchase PercepTool for "only $19.95" but his website says it will cost $89.95.

He does have a note on the website acknowledging the error in the book; I guess to get him off the hook so that entrepid readers won't say "but the book says $19.95."  Since there is a free 30 day trial, one can always see if it's worth the money or not.  I haven't received my copy from Amazon yet but my understanding is that the book focuses on Lightroom but the description of the tool indicates that it's a Photoshop plugin.  Little bit of a disconnect there.
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slc
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« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2009, 12:36:20 PM »
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He suggests making global changes in LR to get the image as close as you can, then take it into Photoshop. Here are my notes from the workshop:

•   Get the image pretty good in ACR/Lightroom before going to Photoshop
•   Run the percept tool to change luminance to luminosity (works for color images as well)
        •   Mode -> 32 bit (avoids clipping)
        •   Copy BG if want result on a new layer, or run the script– check if it runs in 32-bit on Vista 64; puts result on a new layer, adds dialog box percept effect, gamma, and saturation (for color) - script probably won't work on Vista 64-bit
        •   Filter/George DeWolfe / percept tool
        •   Wait, is very, very slow
        •   Mode -> 16bit
               •   Exposure try 0.14 – 0.28
               •   Gamma for blacks, try 1.02 – 1.05
        •   New adjustment layer, Gradient Map
        •   Adjust opacity of Gradient Map until contrast looks right, try 23%

In LR he does convert to BW, but note the tool works on color images (we had the best-looking group photo out of the workshop I've ever seen; the staffer said he ran the PercepTool on it).

Hope this helps,

  - susan

Quote from: Philip Weber
Thanks for the reply. I'm on a PC too and waiting.

In terms of work flow, where did he have you applying it? Since he's a LR user (as am I) is he doing the basic conversion to B&W, then exporting the image (RAW or TIFF?) into CS4 for the PercepTool edit? I assume doing a curves adjustment after that doesn't mess anything up that the plug-in achieved.

Any info on how one would use the thing is appreciated!

Phil
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slc
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« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2009, 12:40:38 PM »
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Sorry I didn't preview the message before posting, and the system pulled all my nice indentions out of the what to do list. Let's try again:

--Get the image pretty good in ACR/Lightroom before going to Photoshop
--Run the percept tool to change luminance to luminosity (works for color images as well)
-------Mode -> 32 bit (avoids clipping)
-------Copy BG if want result on a new layer, or run the script– check if it runs in 32-bit on Vista 64; puts result on a new layer, adds dialog box percept effect, gamma, and saturation (for color)
------Filter/George DeWolfe / percept tool
------------Wait, is very, very slow
------Mode -> 16bit
----------Exposure try 0.14 – 0.28
----------Gamma for blacks, try 1.02 – 1.05
--New adjustment layer, Gradient Map
--Adjust opacity of Gradient Map until contrast looks right, try 23%


 - susan

Quote from: slc
He suggests making global changes in LR to get the image as close as you can, then take it into Photoshop. Here are my notes from the workshop:

•   Get the image pretty good in ACR/Lightroom before going to Photoshop
•   Run the percept tool to change luminance to luminosity (works for color images as well)
        •   Mode -> 32 bit (avoids clipping)
        •   Copy BG if want result on a new layer, or run the script– check if it runs in 32-bit on Vista 64; puts result on a new layer, adds dialog box percept effect, gamma, and saturation (for color) - script probably won't work on Vista 64-bit
        •   Filter/George DeWolfe / percept tool
        •   Wait, is very, very slow
        •   Mode -> 16bit
               •   Exposure try 0.14 – 0.28
               •   Gamma for blacks, try 1.02 – 1.05
        •   New adjustment layer, Gradient Map
        •   Adjust opacity of Gradient Map until contrast looks right, try 23%

In LR he does convert to BW, but note the tool works on color images (we had the best-looking group photo out of the workshop I've ever seen; the staffer said he ran the PercepTool on it).

Hope this helps,

  - susan
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slc
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« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2009, 12:45:28 PM »
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George DeWolfe said on May 8 during my workshop that the Windows PercepTool had gone to beta as of that day. So the ETA depends on if they find any problems, which as an ex-software developer I know means it will be ready when it is ready and not before. He did say that the problem on Vista was with one administrative module, not with the content, so I am hoping it won't be too long.

  - susan

Quote from: daws
Anyone have any info on an ETA for release?
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