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Author Topic: Spyder2 Express - results way off  (Read 6127 times)
ChrisS
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« on: May 18, 2009, 11:31:29 AM »
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I'm using Spyder 2 Express to calibrate my Apple monitor, which is connected to my Apple laptop. Spyder 2 Express will only calibrate one monitor so, to get the external monitor calibrated, I have to make it the main screen. It only has backlight control, which I set to what I think is about the factory setting. Then I run calibrate.

The problem is that the results look far too saturated. In fact, the monitor on the laptop, which has to remain uncalibrated, looks nearer reality. (I've just been working on a portrait, and colour / saturation deviations are obvious.) AND, the uncalibrated laptop screen looks very close to the printed outcome (which therefore also looks like reality).

When I change the laptop monitor to be the main screen, and calibrate it, it too looks over-saturated.

Am I doing something wrong, or is the device not working properly? (I've tried it in dim light, and the same thing happens.)

Thanks

Chris
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edwinb
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« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2009, 11:41:01 AM »
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Quote from: ChrisS
The problem is that the results look far too saturated. In fact, the monitor on the laptop, which has to remain uncalibrated, looks nearer reality. (I've just been working on a portrait, and colour / saturation deviations are obvious.) AND, the uncalibrated laptop screen looks very close to the printed outcome (which therefore also looks like reality).
When I change the laptop monitor to be the main screen, and calibrate it, it too looks over-saturated.

 Some more information may be helpful- what Type/model of apple monitor?
in general apple monitors are I think aimed at designer rather than proofer markets and tend to appear slightly saturated in red to my eyes even after calibration
Edwin
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ChrisS
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« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2009, 11:57:18 AM »
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Quote from: edwinb
Some more information may be helpful- what Type/model of apple monitor?
in general apple monitors are I think aimed at designer rather than proofer markets and tend to appear slightly saturated in red to my eyes even after calibration
Edwin

It's a 20" widescreen cinema display, about 4 months old. I think it might be red that's over saturated. But maybe that's the power of suggestion.

Thanks.

Edit - In fact, a green shirt is also too saturated., and I don't think it's by a small amount.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2009, 11:59:25 AM by ChrisS » Logged
tho_mas
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« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2009, 05:59:38 PM »
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Quote from: ChrisS
The problem is ...
... the Spyder2 Express.

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Robert Spoecker
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« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2009, 06:25:19 PM »
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Quote from: tho_mas
... the Spyder2 Express.


I remember that when I wanted to order Spyder 2 Express the spyder people informed me that the technology was old and did not support backlit display calibration so I went for the Spyder 3.

Could that be the problem?

Robert
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tho_mas
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« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2009, 06:42:23 PM »
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Quote from: Robert Spoecker
I remember that when I wanted to order Spyder 2 Express the spyder people informed me that the technology was old and did not support backlit display calibration so I went for the Spyder 3.
Could that be the problem?
I've seen several calibration curves based on Spyder2 where the dark tonal values were totally weird. Everything down from L*30 is a game of pure chance. Too, the Spyder2 is limited to sRGB displays (not the problem here with the Apple display). And finally (or actually most important) the "Express" software does not offer usefull adjustments (just presets like 6500K and Gamma 2.2 or whatever). But with simple displays as the Apple it's essential to calibrate not to far from its native values. If the display has Gamma 2.0... calibrate to Gamma 2.0! If it has Gamma 2.3 calibrate to Gamma 2.3. Don't turn the white point to far away from the generic white point the display provides. If it's 6200K calibrate to 6200K (or maybe 6000K...). But you need a software that offers these adjustments. If I remember correctly the Express software does not even offer luminance measurment.
I don't know the Spyder3. The i1displays and especially the DTP94 are good (with the right software).
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MBehrens
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« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2009, 06:52:40 PM »
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I learned the hard way about Spyder 2 Express myself. Got the ColorEyes Display Pro software for the Spyder 2 device and it has made a world of difference.

I've heard the Spyder 3 device is very good. Not sure about the software that comes with it. A search in this forum will probably provide a lot of info.
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ChrisS
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« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2009, 12:14:47 PM »
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Quote from: MBehrens
I learned the hard way about Spyder 2 Express myself. Got the ColorEyes Display Pro software for the Spyder 2 device and it has made a world of difference.

I've heard the Spyder 3 device is very good. Not sure about the software that comes with it. A search in this forum will probably provide a lot of info.

Did you have the same issue of over-saturation?

Do you buy the ColorEyes Display Pro software separately and then use it with the same hardware (ie the spyder that came in the Spyder 2 Express)?

Thanks

Chris
« Last Edit: May 20, 2009, 01:04:01 PM by ChrisS » Logged
MBehrens
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« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2009, 06:26:56 PM »
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Quote from: ChrisS
Did you have the same issue of over-saturation?

Do you buy the ColorEyes Display Pro software separately and then use it with the same hardware (ie the spyder that came in the Spyder 2 Express)?

Thanks

Chris

Don't remember it being an over saturation issue, but could never get a good match to prints.

Yeah, I only purchased the CEDP software and used the Spyder 2 device. As I understand the Spyder 2 devices are all the same, difference between express and pro is the software. The CEDP Software has a 10 day trial so you can try before you buy.

Morey
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ChrisS
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« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2009, 11:11:15 AM »
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Quote from: MBehrens
Don't remember it being an over saturation issue, but could never get a good match to prints.

Yeah, I only purchased the CEDP software and used the Spyder 2 device. As I understand the Spyder 2 devices are all the same, difference between express and pro is the software. The CEDP Software has a 10 day trial so you can try before you buy.

Morey

OK - I must be doing something wrong. When I calibrate with Spyder 2 Express, with the Spyder 2 device and CEDP software (I downloaded a trial - thanks for the advice), AND when I use the Apple manual calibrator, I'm getting over-saturated colour. What appears on the screen doesn't match the prints that come out, or reality.

Is there some obvious reason I'm overlooking?
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MBehrens
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« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2009, 06:44:40 PM »
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Quote from: ChrisS
Is there some obvious reason I'm overlooking?
You might list the settings that you are using in the program.

Luminance is a setting that isn't adjustable, or fixed - don't remember) in S2Express, but CEDP has controls for. It takes some trial and error to get straight. I've tried the CEDP process of measuring the printing paper - but had mixed results.
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Misirlou
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« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2009, 02:36:51 PM »
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Quote from: MBehrens
Don't remember it being an over saturation issue, but could never get a good match to prints.

Yeah, I only purchased the CEDP software and used the Spyder 2 device. As I understand the Spyder 2 devices are all the same, difference between express and pro is the software. The CEDP Software has a 10 day trial so you can try before you buy.

Morey

I downloaded the CEDP to try with my old Spyder 2 and it works very well. Tried it on Windows 7 64bit. The monitor profile has much more neutral middle grays, and really seems far better than the old profile from Spyder 2 Pro. Sadly, it's pretty expensive s/w if you already have the Spyder. I may have to bite the bullet though, because paper and ink aren't cheap either.
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MBehrens
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« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2009, 07:29:12 PM »
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Quote from: Misirlou
I may have to bite the bullet though, because paper and ink aren't cheap either.
I struggled with the purchase for a while as well. After taking the leap I'm much more confident with my calibrations, where with the S2Express I was always second guessing, recalibrating, and as you say wasting a lot of paper. It literally changed my printing process from one of guess work to confidence and productivity.
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