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Author Topic: artec v2 arrived here  (Read 16635 times)
PdF
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« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2009, 01:48:48 PM »
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The filter system is a resurrection of the old Norma polarising system, with exactly the same mounting.

PdF
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PdF
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« Reply #21 on: June 25, 2009, 03:07:07 PM »
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<<so we could use the same lenses on the same lensboards on a big studio camera and on cameras like the artec, Flexbody, technia or whatever.>>

Don't forget the Zeiss autofocus lenses of the Sinar m !

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PeterA
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« Reply #22 on: June 25, 2009, 07:18:55 PM »
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Quote from: paratom
Thats a posibility but frankly I allready pwn so many different systems so I would rather have one technical camera system where I could use all lenses on all bodies.
Do you have any info if and when the 40 appears for the Artec?

My understanding was that release was imminent.

However, there seems to be a lot of trouble in the industry....who will buy an arTec today or tommorrow - without assurances that Sinar wil be in business? Seems like Jenoptic are walking away from MF systems...I am waiting for slid information from Sinar before committing any more money to any of their systems.
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Christopher
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« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2009, 05:28:11 AM »
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Now just give me a possability to shoot with my Phase back on this camera and I would consider it beside the new Linhof. So far the Hassi V mount is not attractive for me.
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Dick Roadnight
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« Reply #24 on: June 27, 2009, 06:11:22 AM »
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Quote from: rainer_v
just arrived yesterday the slightly modified new artec.  sinar changed now the tilt mechanism. there is now a knob which snaps in and a new round adjustment knob for the amount of the tilt,- which make the tilt very fine adjustable.
looks as this should address all critics which has been made on the tilt mechanism.
although the old mechanism worked fine for me too, the new one simply is perfect.
also i got the new pole- filter, which is a nice item to work with. i added some images, so its function should be clear .....

finally i got a fantastic architecture camera, it was a long way but the result`s great now. its a real pleasure to work with it,  what i am doing this days excessive ....

making of photos are taken by leonie felle, my great assistant.

Is you great assistant demonstrating how the camera fails to provide enough movements to get architectural verticals paralell without using a cherry picker (or tall tripod and leaning building) and shooting horizontally? ...and, does it have sufficient tilt to get the POS horizontal with f = 150mm and J = 1.5m?
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ThierryH
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« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2009, 06:17:00 AM »
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View Point = Perspective

FYI: the camera has enough mechanical movements to be usable "over" the limits of the sensor (Image Circle).

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote from: Dick Roadnight
Is you great assistant demonstrating how the camera fails to provide enough movements to get architectural verticals paralell without using a cherry picker (or tall tripod and leaning building) and shooting horizontally? ...and, does it have sufficient tilt to get the POS horizontal with f = 150mm and J = 1.5m?
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Dick Roadnight
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« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2009, 07:56:42 AM »
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Quote from: ThierryH
View Point = Perspective
What are you trying to tell me?

Photographers use wide lenses, and suffer the perspective consequences, when they cannot find a view point that would enable them to use a more "perspective free" lens.

As explained on my "virtual viewpoint" topic elsewhere, it is possible to use a longer lens from several view points... and create a picture that looks as if it was taken from a "virtual view point" which you cannot access, or which has no view of the subject. I will start another topic on this if you like.
Quote from: ThierryH
FYI: the camera has enough mechanical movements to be usable "over" the limits of the sensor (Image Circle).

Best regards, Thierry
Most of the digital lenses shorter than the Apo-digitar 47XL are less than ideal, as they do not have much spare image circle for movements, and, using the 47XL, on a sliding stitching back, on a camera with plenty of movements, you can get a wide enough angle (100 degrees, the same as the 24 mm) for most jobs. I have a P2 converted to P3... and I think this has more rise and fall (8 cm on each standard) than the standard P3. I think that none of the the compact digital view cameras can cope with the 150 mm or 210 mm apo-digitars... even on the Sinar P3 to get very close up with the 150 mm or to use the 210 at all you have to use additional bellows... but the Sinar P is a versatile professional system... would it not be nice if someone made a compact view camera that was Sinar P3 lensboard compatible?

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ThierryH
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« Reply #27 on: June 27, 2009, 08:31:47 AM »
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I was simply trying to explain that most probably Rainer did use this view point because he wanted to have the view point there, respectively to get exactly that perspective, not to compensate some lack of movement of the camera.

The perspective is SOLELY dependent on the view point of the camera (position of the lens): no lens can be called "perspective free" or "perspective that".

A longer lens gives exactly the same perspective as a short lens, from the SAME view point. And the view point is defined by the distance and the angle to the subject.

Nothing more and not meant to give a lesson.

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote from: Dick Roadnight
What are you trying to tell me?

Photographers use wide lenses, and suffer the perspective consequences, when they cannot find a view point that would enable them to use a more "perspective free" lens.

As explained on my "virtual viewpoint" topic elsewhere, it is possible to use a longer lens from several view points... and create a picture that looks as if it was taken from a "virtual view point" which you cannot access, or which has no view of the subject. I will start another topic on this if you like.
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rainer_v
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« Reply #28 on: June 27, 2009, 10:32:36 AM »
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Quote from: Dick Roadnight
Is you great assistant demonstrating how the camera fails to provide enough movements to get architectural verticals paralell without using a cherry picker (or tall tripod and leaning building) and shooting horizontally? ...and, does it have sufficient tilt to get the POS horizontal with f = 150mm and J = 1.5m?

as far as i know i take this view points because they give me nice perspectives,
 sure not to compensate lenses with too less shift way. funny idea.
are you shooting architecture?
« Last Edit: June 27, 2009, 10:33:41 AM by rainer_v » Logged

rainer viertlböck
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« Reply #29 on: June 27, 2009, 10:40:26 AM »
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Quote from: Christopher
Now just give me a possability to shoot with my Phase back on this camera and I would consider it beside the new Linhof. So far the Hassi V mount is not attractive for me.


ups.
double post.
 
« Last Edit: June 27, 2009, 10:45:12 AM by rainer_v » Logged

rainer viertlböck
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« Reply #30 on: June 27, 2009, 10:44:31 AM »
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Quote from: Christopher
Now just give me a possability to shoot with my Phase back on this camera and I would consider it beside the new Linhof. So far the Hassi V mount is not attractive for me.


sinar should make a mount for all systems i.m.o. i never understood this idea of closing systems or limiting them. as many here i think the companies dont better their situation in making the attraction of mf in total less interessant, and afterwards trying to get from this smaller cake a bigger piece. although the artec is not a closed system for the v mount, the selling options are too limited for the miss of mamiya, hassy-h and contax mount.
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rainer viertlböck
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tho_mas
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« Reply #31 on: June 27, 2009, 10:51:07 AM »
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Quote from: rainer_v
although the artec is not a closed system for the v mount, the selling options are too limited for the miss of mamiya, hassy-h and contax mount.
   I thought the "HB-V" version is for different mounts? Crazy... such a nice camera!
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rainer_v
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« Reply #32 on: June 27, 2009, 10:59:31 AM »
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Quote from: tho_mas
 I thought the "HB-V" version is for different mounts? Crazy... such a nice camera!
yes it is, but what if you have a contax or mamiya or H mount on your back? i will talk once more with sinar about this.
i see this more important than ever, because the feedback for the artec seems to be very good,- ofcourse i am not surprised by that    but in fact you never know if there are major mistakes in such design or in the realisation before you are really using and working with the serial model of a camera, even if the features are great in theory or even as prototype. as i wrote i am more than content but i would like to see that the artek can be sold for all platforms.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2009, 11:01:43 AM by rainer_v » Logged

rainer viertlböck
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tho_mas
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« Reply #33 on: June 27, 2009, 11:11:42 AM »
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Quote from: rainer_v
i will talk once more with sinar about this.
very good!
Quote
i would like to see that the artek can be sold for all platforms.
I really don't get it. Does Sinar think that people are going to sell their entire gear, swap all to Sinar gear ... just because they want to use the arTec? Sure it is a very nice camera, it's probably the camera. But the price would be much too high. If they want to sell the camera they should bring it to the market... now it's the opposite: they try to bring the market to Sinar.

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Dick Roadnight
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« Reply #34 on: June 27, 2009, 01:09:48 PM »
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Quote from: rainer_v
as far as i know i take this view points because they give me nice perspectives,
 sure not to compensate lenses with too less shift way. funny idea.
are you shooting architecture?
Photographers (especially those who do not use view/technical cameras are always, consciously or sub-consciously,  arranging their viewpoint or subject to keep within the limitation of their equipment.

The sort of architectural "building in it's setting" photograph I am thinking of is a water lilly in the foreground, filling most of the width of the picture, and an hotel building in the background, all sharp and including sky... and to fill the frame with the hotel, you might have to use a 150 mm lens... would this not stretch the envelope of most systems?

Do you never find yourself short of movements or image circle?
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« Reply #35 on: June 27, 2009, 11:39:31 PM »
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Quote from: Dick Roadnight
Photographers (especially those who do not use view/technical cameras are always, consciously or sub-consciously,  arranging their viewpoint or subject to keep within the limitation of their equipment.

The sort of architectural "building in it's setting" photograph I am thinking of is a water lilly in the foreground, filling most of the width of the picture, and an hotel building in the background, all sharp and including sky... and to fill the frame with the hotel, you might have to use a 150 mm lens... would this not stretch the envelope of most systems?

Do you never find yourself short of movements or image circle?
everything always can be larger, bigger, better.
in fact, at least after the arrival of the 23HR rodenstock there is very little which remains on my wishlist for my working system. its the best system i ever worked with, in every aspect. i include here ( aside the artec with HR lenses ) the canon 5d2 for long tele shots,- it works great after canon introduced lens correction in their sw, which results in ultragood corrected tele- possiblities for details.
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rainer viertlböck
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PeterA
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« Reply #36 on: June 28, 2009, 08:49:07 AM »
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Rainer - whats the point of anyone talking about the artec - since Sinar has stopped talking to customers about whether they will be there to service the equipment. I don't need another Hy6 episode. I cant believe they are still saying NOTHING - after months of F&H and now Leaf - which Must have been the NATURAL partner for Sinar...I cant believe we are going to lose Sinar - but judging by their silence - they are either arrogant and therefore stupid - or just ignorant and broke.

and btw - i do not like saying the obvious - but enough is enough - some news please Sinar!!!

Pete
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tho_mas
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« Reply #37 on: June 28, 2009, 09:14:08 AM »
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Quote from: PeterA
Rainer - whats the point of anyone talking about the artec
Peter, I think Rainer is not the person to ask. He's the creator of the camera, not its dealer :-)
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rainer_v
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« Reply #38 on: June 28, 2009, 11:26:10 AM »
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Quote from: PeterA
Rainer - whats the point of anyone talking about the artec - since Sinar has stopped talking to customers about whether they will be there to service the equipment. I don't need another Hy6 episode. I cant believe they are still saying NOTHING - after months of F&H and now Leaf - which Must have been the NATURAL partner for Sinar...I cant believe we are going to lose Sinar - but judging by their silence - they are either arrogant and therefore stupid - or just ignorant and broke.

and btw - i do not like saying the obvious - but enough is enough - some news please Sinar!!!

Pete

i understand your point although, as Thomas wrote, i am writing about the artec because it grew up from my initiative but i am not selling or making it. the prices are a steal now ( in germany ) and i am not very scared that my artec/33mp system will not serve me for many years from now on, but of course the situation is everything than inviting to buy in the system at this moment and ( without knowing any actual numbers ), it should be reflected in their selling as well. so lets see what will bring the nearer future.
i dont have also any idea what leads sinar to the idea to stop communication here, but at least they are still alive and working there in switzerland. after thierry had to leave, it became very quiet here about sinar. but remember that he always was in LL out of his personal engagement, as far i know it never was requested by sinar itself and so its a bit logic that its very quiet now after thierry is away from them, sinar didnt care much about internet forums. we can discuss if this is very clever, but now this is the situation and its result.

i will write my very personal thoughts about the artec and its future, if the things run bad:
the artec is a mechanical system, so the worst case ( manufactor`s dead ) is i.m.o. not so dramatic as it is with an electronic system as the HY. ( although i worked since years with the dead system called contax and still its great, but it is also a completed system in terms of the lens range and accessories. )

for me a system is in that moment usable in which i can get it  complete to 100% and this is the point where i can buy into, not a second before . i dont base decisions in mf anymore on what will happen in the future - after all what we saw in the last years.
the artec is an item which has a complete lens lineup ( no idea about the 40HR, but there is the 35hr and the 45 ), it has a great 33mp back together with a very good working lens batch correction and dng writing software.
in case a 75lv back brakes in the future it will be very easy and probably cheap to replace it with or without warranty.
if i would need in the longer future another back adapter to buy a higher res. back ( or there will break something in the artec body )  i would search s.o. ( a small mechanical firm ) to make it ,- this looks very possible for me and will not be too expensive.

but as i wrote above, i understand your point.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2009, 11:36:08 AM by rainer_v » Logged

rainer viertlböck
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tho_mas
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« Reply #39 on: June 28, 2009, 12:51:40 PM »
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Quote from: rainer_v
if i would need in the longer future another back adapter to buy a higher res. back ( or there will break something in the artec body )  i would search s.o. ( a small mechanical firm ) to make it ,- this looks very possible for me and will not be too expensive.
I think in Germany Gottschalt and/or Wiese would be the guys to ask, right?
« Last Edit: June 28, 2009, 12:52:29 PM by tho_mas » Logged
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