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Author Topic: artec v2 arrived here  (Read 16103 times)
rainer_v
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« Reply #40 on: June 28, 2009, 12:59:09 PM »
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Quote from: tho_mas
I think in Germany Gottschalt and/or Wiese would be the guys to ask, right?
or maybe mr. zoerkendorfer, or any company which makes in small amounts mechanical tools.
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rainer viertlböck
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PeterA
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« Reply #41 on: June 28, 2009, 08:53:20 PM »
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Rainer - thank you for your thoughts on the issues impacting on the arTec. Indeed artec is so simple - it is hard to imagine what could go wrong - except in case of accident...My main concern would be access to lenses - anything mechanical breaks down over time and use - custom helical mounts especially.

Hopefully Sinar will survive - perhaps the Hy6 lesson will see them focus on what they do best. Maybe even they will understand selling more is better than selling nothing. Openning up to MFD back platforms to any back is the first best thing they could do. The Hy6 artec story to date is about closing down choices for users - not smart. Even dumber are people like me - enthusiasts - who bought inot the system trusting the busines brains of Sinar/Jenoptic. Now we are left with an expensive (and pretty ) paperweight. Still I can laugh - one lives and learns! - I suspect that there might be some sales on the Hy6 stock - and we can buy a spare body :)just like the Contax owners - for spare parts!
« Last Edit: June 28, 2009, 08:54:28 PM by PeterA » Logged
paratom
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« Reply #42 on: June 29, 2009, 05:31:41 AM »
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Quote from: PeterA
Rainer - thank you for your thoughts on the issues impacting on the arTec. Indeed artec is so simple - it is hard to imagine what could go wrong - except in case of accident...My main concern would be access to lenses - anything mechanical breaks down over time and use - custom helical mounts especially.

Hopefully Sinar will survive - perhaps the Hy6 lesson will see them focus on what they do best. Maybe even they will understand selling more is better than selling nothing. Openning up to MFD back platforms to any back is the first best thing they could do. The Hy6 artec story to date is about closing down choices for users - not smart. Even dumber are people like me - enthusiasts - who bought inot the system trusting the busines brains of Sinar/Jenoptic. Now we are left with an expensive (and pretty ) paperweight. Still I can laugh - one lives and learns! - I suspect that there might be some sales on the Hy6 stock - and we can buy a spare body :)just like the Contax owners - for spare parts!

Peter,
if they will stop selling the Artec (what I dont think) then I will probably be happy that I got one - every time when I slide the groundglass to the side and the back behind the lens.
I agree regarding the lenses.

One comment: if companies do communicate a lot doesnt mean automatically they are healthy and the other way around.

The Sinar response I get from the Sinar -rep in my area is not bad at all, that maybe more important than writing a lot in the internet.

We have to be careful IMO - with the internet every little information leads often to millions of speculations which can be read by many people.
So for some part I can understand that those companies are very very carefull what they say and write in the internet.
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ynp
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« Reply #43 on: June 29, 2009, 07:06:15 AM »
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I do not know if Sinar will be manufacturing cameras in one year time, and I think nobody here is able to predict it. I was at
Sinar in Switzerland a week ago to get our two eMotion 75LV backs after the  upgrade to the new displays and innards.

As far as  I can understand , Sinar still operates and the parking, in front of the factory, is still full of cars; if less than before (it was not my first
visit to Sinar). Heard some humming noises from the building (as before), some machines were working. In the front room, just out of the foyer,
where I was paying,  I  saw  several Sinar Artec  Explorer cases prepared for delivery to the clients / dealers. I had lunch with some of the employees
and they were very happy and proud about the Artec, they said that see that the camera raised some interest in Europe and Asia from pros. They also see the
interest from amateurs and enthusiasts and they have some new orders from landscape shooters.

To be honest, I am worried that my Sinar-M and eMotion backs can be unsupported in the future and I am doubling almost everything:
I bought a second Sinar-M body, a new battery  grip, some manual V-series lenses and other bits.  I see that the Contax 645 users are able
enjoy their cameras when they are no longer supported.

BTW I am happy with the results after the upgrade. We have tested the backs and I see less noise in the shadow areas and the new
2,5 inch display is much better than the 2,2 OLED we used before.

Yevgeny
« Last Edit: June 29, 2009, 07:08:14 AM by ynp » Logged
PeterA
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« Reply #44 on: June 29, 2009, 09:08:59 PM »
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Quote from: paratom
Peter,
if they will stop selling the Artec (what I dont think) then I will probably be happy that I got one - every time when I slide the groundglass to the side and the back behind the lens.
I agree regarding the lenses.

One comment: if companies do communicate a lot doesnt mean automatically they are healthy and the other way around.

The Sinar response I get from the Sinar -rep in my area is not bad at all, that maybe more important than writing a lot in the internet.

We have to be careful IMO - with the internet every little information leads often to millions of speculations which can be read by many people.
So for some part I can understand that those companies are very very carefull what they say and write in the internet.

Yes the internet is full of 'talk'. However - the situation with Sinar/Jenotic is not business as usual since the F&H episode. Sinar must understnad that current users are very interested to know what will happen. prospective buyers of teh wonderful artec - woudl appreciate reassurances regarding the situation. Not too much to ask for- even if communication was delivered via local dealers?

Pete
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paratom
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« Reply #45 on: July 01, 2009, 02:35:11 AM »
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Quote from: PeterA
Yes the internet is full of 'talk'. However - the situation with Sinar/Jenotic is not business as usual since the F&H episode. Sinar must understnad that current users are very interested to know what will happen. prospective buyers of teh wonderful artec - woudl appreciate reassurances regarding the situation. Not too much to ask for- even if communication was delivered via local dealers?

Pete

For those complaining about the price:
There are many things included in the Artec (groundglass, tilt, loupe, sliding adapter) where you would have to pay extra when you use a different system.

Regarding the pol-filter - why would you use such a system and not a screw in filter?
I understand that those kind of systems make sense when you use an optical viewfinder and want to bring the filter in front of the vewifinder and then qzuickly in fornt of the lens, but if you use a groundglass anyways?? Do I miss something here?

How good would a screw in rubber? hood work instead of the compendium mask if one shifts not more than lets say 15mm and or if I would choose the hood so it would allow light to get into the whole image circle?

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paratom
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« Reply #46 on: July 01, 2009, 04:55:16 AM »
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I guess I can answer 1 of my question myself- that you want to focus and adjust movements without the pol filter.
sorry.- just have never used a Tech camera before I received my Artec few days ago.


Quote from: paratom
Regarding the pol-filter - why would you use such a system and not a screw in filter?
I understand that those kind of systems make sense when you use an optical viewfinder and want to bring the filter in front of the vewifinder and then qzuickly in fornt of the lens, but if you use a groundglass anyways?? Do I miss something here?


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narikin
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« Reply #47 on: July 03, 2009, 07:52:44 AM »
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Quote from: rainer_v
yes it is, but what if you have a contax or mamiya or H mount on your back? i will talk once more with sinar about this.
i see this more important than ever, because the feedback for the artec seems to be very good,- ofcourse i am not surprised by that    but in fact you never know if there are major mistakes in such design or in the realisation before you are really using and working with the serial model of a camera, even if the features are great in theory or even as prototype. as i wrote i am more than content but i would like to see that the artek can be sold for all platforms.

yes and when you talk to them, tell them to do the same with the Sinar M body - I would have bought one if I could use my P65+ on it, but i cant, so they lost a client and lost $.
they need to make an adapter plate for whatever fit back you have - Mamiya, Hassy, probably even Contax too,  simple thing that will double their sales power.
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narikin
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« Reply #48 on: July 03, 2009, 07:58:00 AM »
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Quote from: rainer_v
[attachment=13819:IMG_4359.jpg]
ps Rainer - I love how in this picture (6th one down, green pipes)  you are on the NO STEP very top of the ladder, and one of of the lock bars is not even down.
please take care!
or at least take care of that expensive camera  
« Last Edit: July 03, 2009, 08:01:14 AM by narikin » Logged
Dick Roadnight
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« Reply #49 on: July 03, 2009, 10:18:30 AM »
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Quote from: narikin
ps Rainer - I love how in this picture (6th one down, green pipes)  you are on the NO STEP very top of the ladder, and one of of the lock bars is not even down.
please take care!
or at least take care of that expensive camera  
This is a classic illustration of the advantages of live-view for remote operation of the camera. Unfortunately Hasselblad have not implemented live-view for my camera.
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Hasselblad H4, Sinar P3 monorail view camera, Schneider Apo-digitar lenses
hcubell
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« Reply #50 on: July 03, 2009, 10:27:37 AM »
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Quote from: Dick Roadnight
This is a classic illustration of the advantages of live-view for remote operation of the camera. Unfortunately Hasselblad have not implemented live-view for my camera.

Why have you not insisted that your dealer take your H3D-50 back rather than banging your head against the wall?
« Last Edit: July 03, 2009, 10:28:21 AM by hcubell » Logged

rainer_v
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« Reply #51 on: July 03, 2009, 11:02:00 AM »
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Quote from: Dick Roadnight
This is a classic illustration of the advantages of live-view for remote operation of the camera. Unfortunately Hasselblad have not implemented live-view for my camera.
the sinar back has live view implemented but with the best will i cant see the advantage of it in such situation ... if so i would use it.
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rainer viertlböck
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Dick Roadnight
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« Reply #52 on: July 03, 2009, 11:17:07 AM »
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Quote from: rainer_v
the sinar back has live view implemented but with the best will i cant see the advantage of it in such situation ... if so i would use it.
Even if you were not concerned about you own safety or comfort, you could use live view to enable you not to cling on to the tripod to stabilize yourself, giving you less camera/tripod/step-ladder shake!
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Hasselblad H4, Sinar P3 monorail view camera, Schneider Apo-digitar lenses
tho_mas
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« Reply #53 on: July 03, 2009, 11:27:54 AM »
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Quote from: Dick Roadnight
Even if you were not concerned about you own safety or comfort, you could use live view to enable you not to cling on to the tripod to stabilize yourself, giving you less camera/tripod/step-ladder shake!
very good observation!
I'm almost certain that the shot doesn't show the moment when he released the camera but some time before whilest arranging the composition...
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MHFA
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« Reply #54 on: July 07, 2009, 11:52:40 AM »
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Last year I tested the artec and made a review for LL. For an architectural photographer it is a lot of money and I tried a 5DII to substitute LF Film. After half a year I decided to buy the artec (I think, I was the last one buying at Sinar Germany) and tomorrow it will be there.
So tomorrow I will be happy and I will forget all the rumours. I think it is better to go on and look for the best products to make the best pictures.
Don`t worry to much what will happen with brands like Sinar. If they have a good products(and Sinar really have) they will survive.

Michael Heinrich
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Cartman
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« Reply #55 on: July 07, 2009, 01:04:14 PM »
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Sexy tripod.
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tho_mas
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« Reply #56 on: July 09, 2009, 03:10:04 PM »
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once good news (from sinar.ch -> news)
If they would allow connection for all digibacks and for Schneider Digitars... the text would leave less dull aftertaste.
Quote
09.07.2009
Sinar arTec Sales Success Exceeds Expectations!
Sinar AG announced today that orders exceeding all forecasts have placed the Sinar arTec camera and many lenses in a backorder situation. This is a temporary situation

which of course is no surprise to us at Sinar—we too are enjoying the use and success of the Sinar arTec camera as much as our clients do.
Maybe it’s the inherent design of the Sinar arTec that’s reason enough to want one?

This is a camera conceived around a sliding back—with integrated ground glass screen and 3x magnifier—which in turn offers you image management tools employing Rise & Fall, Lateral shift and of course Tilts & Swings—for all lenses!

In addition there’s lens support from 23mm to 135mm in familiar and friendly Copal mechanical shutters and with silky-smooth and precise helical focusing mounts.
And if that isn’t enough reason in itself to want one, the “icing on the cake” is the addition of such an intuitive and well-conceived software workflow which entirely eliminates lens casts and centrefold issues—and which optionally gives you control over the degree of illumination or edge fall-off as required for each image’s preconceived tonal balance. As you can see we like it—we like it a lot!

Normal deliveries are expected again in September.
Therefore the sooner you place your order—the sooner you’ll receive your camera.

For those who have placed orders, we thank you for your patience and confidence in choosing Sinar arTec.
We assure you the wait will be well worthwhile as we’re absolutely convinced the Sinar arTec represents a true Sinar experience—as is usual.

Again, we confirm that we expect this situation to be only a temporary issue affecting immediate supply of the Sinar arTec—which ironically is a consequence of the camera’s success!
« Last Edit: July 09, 2009, 03:10:32 PM by tho_mas » Logged
MHFA
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« Reply #57 on: July 10, 2009, 12:56:51 AM »
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Quote from: tho_mas
once good news (from sinar.ch -> news)
If they would allow connection for all digibacks and for Schneider Digitars... the text would leave less dull aftertaste.
So Sinar sold all cameras they made. These are good news. I also hope they will open the system a bit more. I don`t know why there are only Linos Lenses, perhaps Linos they offered much better conditions if the system only offers their lenses. In this case I can understand the decision. Also you can buy a plate and a lens and a professional will do the rest.
If there are so much Artec sold, perhaps there are some users interested in a userforum? Here in LL?

Michael Heinrich
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asf
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« Reply #58 on: July 10, 2009, 01:46:37 AM »
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It would be interesting to know how many have been sold, especially in the US. I know 3 people who had expressed interest in buying one here in NY and no one seemed too terribly interested in selling it to them. 2 of them subsequently bought complete Alpa systems with Leaf backs, the 3rd bought a Leaf back and is using it on a view camera. I was also interested in the Artec, but not if it meant dealing with SinarBron Inc. When I asked the NY Sinar dealer last month if they had sold any they politely laughed at me. They hadn't even taken delivery of one. So maybe the webstore is the best idea for Sinar right now.

Sinar has been offering Rodenstock lenses (exclusively?) for 10 years now, if not longer. The latest Sinar branded Schneider lens I've seen was a Symmar S from the 80's.

Does/will Sinar sell blank boards for the Artec?
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tho_mas
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« Reply #59 on: July 10, 2009, 02:30:28 AM »
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Quote from: MHFA
In this case I can understand the decision.
me not as it is a deal with Rodenstock and Sinar but the customer doesn't benefit here.

Quote from: MHFA
Also you can buy a plate and a lens and a professional will do the rest.
I'm sure someone could make as well a camera interface for Contax, Mamiya or whatever. It's just complicated and fraught with the risk that something will not fit and it could take weeks or months ... until you can mount your stuff on the camera.
Too, you actually never have the opportunity to test exactly the combination of parts you like to test. If you buy the whole package from one supplier you can return the whole package if it doesn't work for you.
Be that as it may... there are other suppliers that offer all interfaces and all lenses.
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