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Author Topic: Hasselblad Bankruptcy?  (Read 23448 times)
cjmonty
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« on: May 20, 2009, 10:43:51 AM »
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Ugh.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2009, 10:38:08 PM by cjmonty » Logged
BJL
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« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2009, 11:00:55 AM »
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Quote from: cjmonty
I was talking with a Hasselblad reseller the other day, and he said that Hassie has suspended its dealer required-pricing program ...
The phrase "dealer-required" sounds like a type of price-setting that has recently been outlawed in the USA; that sounds a more likely explanation. (Was the dealer perhaps encouraging you to buy some other brand that he carries, and throwing FUD at Hasselblad?)
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cjmonty
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« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2009, 12:00:39 PM »
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Quote from: BJL
sounds like a type of price-setting that has recently been outlawed in the USA; that sounds a more likely explanation.

That sounds plausible.  As for the dealer, he was actually casting aspersions on both Hasselblad and Phase in terms of impending doom.  But that seems to be pretty common these days.
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David Grover / Phase One
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« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2009, 12:05:06 PM »
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Quote from: cjmonty
That sounds plausible.  As for the dealer, he was actually casting aspersions on both Hasselblad and Phase in terms of impending doom.  But that seems to be pretty common these days.

I think Ill put this one to bed right now before more fuel is on the fire.    

The dealer pricing is the same as it has always been.  There is an RRP, they get a discount, they sell at no higher than the RRP and lower if they wish.

Most likely the dealer was what?  Canon? Nikon!

Anyway, 'Don't Panic' as they say.

Best,


David


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David Grover
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j.miller
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« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2009, 03:37:33 PM »
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To be perfectly clear, Hasselblad USA (headquarted in Redmond, WA) currently has a policy in place that requires authorized USA dealers to maintain a "minimum advertised price" (MAP) which enables the dealer network to compete on the merits of its sales ability, technical capacity, and advertising capability, as apposed to solely competing on "lowest price". This provides numerous benefits to end-users, the dealers, and finally Hasselblad. It also helps to maintain the healthy and straight forward dealer network for end-users to do business with. You will find most dealers throughout the US are advocates of a MAP/MSRP policy, with there being only a few specific exceptions.

Federal and state legislation continues to limit the extent of pricing control that a vendor / manufacturer can have over their product in the free market. This can vary greatly from state to state, and will continue to change of the next few weeks/months.

I cannot speak for this type of policy outside the US, however I would only assume Hasselblad maintains similar policies and agreements with dealers throughout the world.

As for indicating "this is the first step towards going out-of-business", that is just plain ridiculous. Nothing but mindless speculation and baseless opinion on the dealer's part.

Regards,

Jordan Miller
Digital Technology Group, Inc.

Quote from: cjmonty
I was talking with a Hasselblad reseller the other day, and he said that Hassie has suspended its dealer required-pricing program (I believe called M.A.C.).  He went further to explain that this is the first step towards going out-of-business.

Anyone hear about this?
« Last Edit: May 20, 2009, 03:39:09 PM by JEM_DTG » Logged
gwhitf
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« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2009, 04:13:55 PM »
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Quote from: JEM_DTG
To be perfectly clear, Hasselblad USA (headquarted in Redmond, WA) currently has a policy in place that requires authorized USA dealers to maintain a "minimum advertised price" (MAP) which enables the dealer network to compete on the merits of its sales ability, technical capacity, and advertising capability, as apposed to solely competing on "lowest price". This provides numerous benefits to end-users, the dealers, and finally Hasselblad. It also helps to maintain the healthy and straight forward dealer network for end-users to do business with. You will find most dealers throughout the US are advocates of a MAP/MSRP policy, with there being only a few specific exceptions.

"... straight forward..."?

My view of straight forward is going to www.bhphoto.com, and a 1ds3 says $6999.95, (to everyone, equally), and I say, "OK, here's my AMEX number".

That's straight forward.

All of those straight forward sentences that you wrote above translate into "we'll get every dime out of you that we can squeeze".
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Nick_T
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« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2009, 04:15:08 PM »
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Quote from: gwhitf
"... straight forward..."?

My view of straight forward is going to www.bhphoto.com, and a 1ds3 says $6999.95, (to everyone, equally), and I say, "OK, here's my AMEX number".

That's straight forward.

All of those straight forward sentences that you wrote above translate into "we'll get every dime out of you that we can squeeze".


Actually George the point of this thread is that Hasselblad have dropped MAP pricing...

Nick-T
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christian_raae
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« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2009, 04:19:43 PM »
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I´m getting more and more the feeling of lobby´ism in this forum.

Random posts as "better DR with slr", "MFDB bankruptcy" , pro/cons MFDB vs SLR with over enthusiastic slr users, "no visible image difference between slr and MFDB", etc.


Is there a possibility that big slr brands are putting their opinion through users in this forum?

It would obviously influence a large potential buyers of MFDB.



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gwhitf
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« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2009, 04:31:17 PM »
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Quote from: Nick_T
Actually George the point of this thread is that Hasselblad have dropped MAP pricing...

Nick-T

Nick and Jordan:

With all due respect, all those hocus pocus terms seems so out of date. It just reminds me of a bunch of overweight white guys, sitting around a conference table in their Sansabelt elastic-waist pants, with their calculators and their Excel spreadsheets, using business practices that died long ago. The internet has changed everything now -- both with easy to view retailers websites, and also with forums like this, that allow free transfer of real world information. In short, these backroom plots and shenanigans about pricing and such are just plain dead, but I don't think many of these companies realize that.

Transparency is the new buzzword. And "keeping it simple".

I've never understood this whole dealer (markup) network. Seems easy enough for Phase, or anyone, to have some big warehouse in Chicago or Dallas, in the middle of the country, and they eliminate all the dealers, and they make damn sure that the camera works right, right out of the box, and their own website has good instructional videos.

But hey, what do I know? But what I do know is that when I read Jordan's sentences in that prior post, my eyes roll back in my head, and all I see is "run the other way".
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feppe
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« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2009, 05:05:43 PM »
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Quote from: christian_raae
I´m getting more and more the feeling of lobby´ism in this forum.

Random posts as "better DR with slr", "MFDB bankruptcy" , pro/cons MFDB vs SLR with over enthusiastic slr users, "no visible image difference between slr and MFDB", etc.


Is there a possibility that big slr brands are putting their opinion through users in this forum?

It would obviously influence a large potential buyers of MFDB.

I highly doubt Canikon would spend any significant amount of money on astroturfing and risking negative brand impact when it leaks out, when the potential MFDB market is a few thousand units worldwide, while there are millions of dSLRs to be sold...
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bcooter
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« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2009, 05:21:14 PM »
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Quote from: feppe
I highly doubt Canikon would spend any significant amount of money on astroturfing and risking negative brand impact when it leaks out, when the potential MFDB market is a few thousand units worldwide, while there are millions of dSLRs to be sold...


That's pretty funny.

If your a working photographer, the only "lobbyism" you see on these forums, past some of the obvious brand or format loyalty, is just a single photographer positing what he or she  uses to make art and make a living.

As Michael has mentioned this "medium" format section is the closest thing the forum has to a professional section, (same as during the RG days) and what you see isn't a concerted effort to lobby against medium format on behest of Canon, Nikon or Sony.

Camera companies don't pay that much money to photographers that they promote in the first place and no reputable company would put a shill on a forum giving out disinformation. In the world of the 7 year google internet no company would take that chance.

I have multiple cameras, multiple formats and some are good in studio, some aren't, some are great if your shooting slow, some are fast and some are just making less and less economic sense as the business of "commercial" photography changes, mainly because we're not shooting slow anymore and we're not getting any more money whether we have 22, 30, 39 or 60 mpx.

GW is right a lot of the medium format business model is outdated.

To me medium format is a self fulfilling prophecy of difficulty.  No buyer asked for a complex buying system, no buyer asked for cameras that are slower, more difficult to learn and that  take a flow chart to know what camera back is "allowed" to work on what camera body.  No camera buyer wanted to see their Rollei only work with a handful of backs, their Hasselblad limited by back, lens body combinations, or their new Phase with sensor plus, require a return to the maker to add the sensor plus feature.

In fact the few remaining medium format brands, since all are aligned or owned by the digital back makers, have done more to limit medium format use than all the marketing brains at Canon and Nikon combined.

Actually, there are more medium format dealers, reps, and makers on this forum than anyone I see associated with Canon and Nikon.

B
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feppe
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« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2009, 06:08:06 PM »
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Quote from: bcooter
That's pretty funny.
[snip]

Either you quoted me when you meant to quote gwhitf, or you misread my post.
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bcooter
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« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2009, 06:14:58 PM »
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Quote from: feppe
Either you quoted me when you meant to quote gwhitf, or you misread my post.


I was agreeing with you and meant to quote  christian_raae

Regardless, this really is a thread that should be closed as it does no good for anyone.

I don't like these headlines that say ____________ is closing without some  substantial proof and I think they put good people in harm.

Given that, I would love to see medium format become more transparent (and useful).


B
« Last Edit: May 20, 2009, 06:17:50 PM by bcooter » Logged
Guy Mancuso
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« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2009, 06:30:11 PM »
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Quote from: cjmonty
That sounds plausible.  As for the dealer, he was actually casting aspersions on both Hasselblad and Phase in terms of impending doom.  But that seems to be pretty common these days.


The real question was what did he have in his hand as he was spitting out the BS.
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MarkKay
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« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2009, 06:39:59 PM »
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How does this specifically work?  Hasselblad has a policy to maintain a minimum advertised price but then there are federal and state laws that prohibit the manufacturer from dictating such price control? So if a dealer violates Hasselblad policy and Hasselblad pulls their product from a dealer for violating their policy they have effectively broken the law.  I am not saying Hasselblad is breaking the law but to be honest I have never understood the MSRP and legal ramifications for any manufacturer.  I mean you see these deals click on price because it is below allowed MSRP etc.  It is my understanding that some manufacturers will pull a dealership from weak sales or other problems.    


Quote from: JEM_DTG
To be perfectly clear, Hasselblad USA (headquarted in Redmond, WA) currently has a policy in place that requires authorized USA dealers to maintain a "minimum advertised price" (MAP) which enables the dealer network to compete on the merits of its sales ability, technical capacity, and advertising capability, as apposed to solely competing on "lowest price". This provides numerous benefits to end-users, the dealers, and finally Hasselblad. It also helps to maintain the healthy and straight forward dealer network for end-users to do business with. You will find most dealers throughout the US are advocates of a MAP/MSRP policy, with there being only a few specific exceptions.

Federal and state legislation continues to limit the extent of pricing control that a vendor / manufacturer can have over their product in the free market. This can vary greatly from state to state, and will continue to change of the next few weeks/months.

I cannot speak for this type of policy outside the US, however I would only assume Hasselblad maintains similar policies and agreements with dealers throughout the world.

As for indicating "this is the first step towards going out-of-business", that is just plain ridiculous. Nothing but mindless speculation and baseless opinion on the dealer's part.

Regards,

Jordan Miller
Digital Technology Group, Inc.
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Nick_T
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« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2009, 06:45:32 PM »
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Quote from: MarkKay
How does this specifically work?  Hasselblad has a policy to maintain a minimum advertised price but then there are federal and state laws that prohibit the manufacturer from dictating such price control? So if a dealer violates Hasselblad policy and Hasselblad pulls their product from a dealer for violating their policy they have effectively broken the law.  I am not saying Hasselblad is breaking the law but to be honest I have never understood the MSRP and legal ramifications for any manufacturer.  I mean you see these deals click on price because it is below allowed MSRP etc.  It is my understanding that some manufacturers will pull a dealership from weak sales or other problems.

I think the MAP policy used to operate on a state by state basis, ie obviously only where it was legal. I would guess such inconsistencies were part of the reason it (the MAP policy) has been discontinued.

Nick-T
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pixjohn
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« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2009, 06:59:49 PM »
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This thread should be removed. Just BS slander. Why not post the name of the sales guy and store?
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laughingbear
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« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2009, 07:19:45 PM »
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Ireland is more likely bancrupt than Hasselblad.  
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mcfoto
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« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2009, 08:04:19 PM »
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Quote from: pixjohn
This thread should be removed. Just BS slander. Why not post the name of the sales guy and store?

I 2nd that.
Denis
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cjmonty
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« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2009, 09:41:57 PM »
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As the originator of the post, I'm tempted to 3rd the motion to close it.
However, some thoughts:
-"Bankruptcy" was a unfortunate choice of words- perhaps I should have used "trouble?"

-The 'seller' wasn't trying to sell me anything- he was extrapolating from an obscure legal change in Hasselblad's vendor rules.  I was there regarding something else and he doesnt even sell DSLRs.  Anyhow its beside the point.

-I solely use MFDBs and actually started this misbegotten thread because I fear a future where the only professional digital capture is via Canikon or some boutique techjob so expensive it makes the P65+ look like a steal.

The point of this wasn't the seller's, nor my intentions, but rather wondering about the concrete viability of these companies.  I am reading a book about the last 72 hours of Bear Stearns, so perhaps I'm a little primed towards expecting problems behind rah-rah corporate press releases these days.  

And while a thread that appears to insinuate impending bankruptcy of Hasselblad does seem, well... stupid, it was meant to ask the community for information where there isn't very much clearly available.

At the very least, someone from Hasselblad stood up and clarified the nature and status of MAP pricing.  And more to the point, several people were able to comment on that practice.

The fact remains:  We are in a global economic contraction.  The three or four "major" MFDB makers are bouyed by a very small professional and/or wealthy customer base.  They don't have the impulse buyers (oh if I could be a Phase One impulse buyer!), they don't have volume, but they have to work on the expensive cutting edge of technology.  Well, at lease of sensor design.  Definitely not of LCD design, ha.

Is this feasible?  What will happen?  Its an interesting question.  Happily, It appears that Hasselblad isn't headed toward Chapter 11 anytime soon.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2009, 09:43:32 PM by cjmonty » Logged
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