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Author Topic: Golden era for photography  (Read 25538 times)
Rob C
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« Reply #60 on: June 27, 2009, 10:54:29 AM »
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Quote from: RSL
By the way, Rob, Dale may be right about one thing: Maplethorpe and Sturges probably have been influential among later twentieth century and early twenty-first century pornographers.


In the case of the former, influential in the way that seeing a road accident makes you drive better for a minute or two; the latter - who did you say? Oh yes, I remember now, the revenge of the other naked people...

Rob C
« Last Edit: June 27, 2009, 10:55:41 AM by Rob C » Logged

RSL
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« Reply #61 on: June 27, 2009, 01:08:49 PM »
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... unlike HCB, they weren't afraid to take chances and do something different.

Dale, I missed this one first time around. You probably should do a little research before you come out with a honker like that. As Casey said, "You could look it up."
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dalethorn
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« Reply #62 on: June 27, 2009, 04:55:33 PM »
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Dale, I missed this one first time around. You probably should do a little research before you come out with a honker like that. As Casey said, "You could look it up."

In case YOU have been asleep for 25 years or so Mr. VanWinkle, everybody knows about Mapplethorpe, and whether you like his art or not, it's real, it's professional, it's influential.  Hard to argue with that.  And he's not Thomas Kinkade.  The other guy is not yet one of the old dead dudes, so we'll have to wait for a better reading from the historians.  But then, you wave your hand and all of the world of landscape photography is reduced to a ho-hum, so what can I expect from a pig but a grunt?
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daws
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« Reply #63 on: June 28, 2009, 12:25:31 AM »
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Quote from: RSL
You probably should do a little research before you come out with a honker like that.
Quote from: dalethorn
...you wave your hand and all of the world of landscape photography is reduced to a ho-hum, so what can I expect from a pig but a grunt?
Thank God! One more hour of that 24/7 Michael Jackson coverage, and I'd've gone comatose!
*grabs a bowl of popcorn and settles back to watch "Saturday Night with the Photopugs"*

 
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Rob C
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« Reply #64 on: June 28, 2009, 02:35:31 AM »
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Thank God! One more hour of that 24/7 Michael Jackson coverage, and I'd've gone comatose!
*grabs a bowl of popcorn and settles back to watch "Saturday Night with the Photopugs"*

 


For once, being off-topic is very much ON topic. I have despaired of finding a news channel that is actually presenting news. There is this madnes of trivia everywhere I turn. Not death - far from trivial - but the coverage this event is getting is absolutely crazy and unwarranted. You would think the world had stopped turning. For a bloke whose records had stopped selling, there is a funny, ironic, sudden growth of fanbase! And even if he had still been the worldīs greatest, most prolific seller, so what? Of what bloody momentous value to the world is a pop star?

Sorry day for the family, as is any death, but for the rest of the world and for more than five minutes?

Rob C
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« Reply #65 on: June 28, 2009, 06:42:10 AM »
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Quote from: Rob C
For once, being off-topic is very much ON topic. I have despaired of finding a news channel that is actually presenting news. There is this madnes of trivia everywhere I turn. Not death - far from trivial - but the coverage this event is getting is absolutely crazy and unwarranted. You would think the world had stopped turning. For a bloke whose records had stopped selling, there is a funny, ironic, sudden growth of fanbase! And even if he had still been the worldīs greatest, most prolific seller, so what? Of what bloody momentous value to the world is a pop star?

Sorry day for the family, as is any death, but for the rest of the world and for more than five minutes?

Rob C

Rob, There's a solution to that problem. I found it about ten years ago: never turn on a TV unless you've got a DVD player connected to it and a good movie in the player. For years I kept thinking TV couldn't possibly get worse. Finally, one evening I said to myself, "Why am I still doing this?", shut off the damned thing, and never again turned it back on.
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dalethorn
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« Reply #66 on: June 28, 2009, 07:18:01 AM »
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Quote from: Rob C
.....the coverage this event is getting is absolutely crazy and unwarranted. You would think the world had stopped turning. For a bloke whose records had stopped selling, there is a funny, ironic, sudden growth of fanbase!
Rob C

There is some importance after all. Most have forgotten Mr. Jackson's slur against a certain minority people a few years ago, on a record album, and how when it was announced far and wide in the media, Tower records just happened to have a million of them in stock.

There's the courtroom precedents of being able to share one's adult bed with other people's children.

And the fact that pop music today, for better or worse, *is* Michael Jackson, period. That's a real tragedy.
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Rob C
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« Reply #67 on: June 28, 2009, 10:11:22 AM »
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Rob, There's a solution to that problem. I found it about ten years ago: never turn on a TV unless you've got a DVD player connected to it and a good movie in the player. For years I kept thinking TV couldn't possibly get worse. Finally, one evening I said to myself, "Why am I still doing this?", shut off the damned thing, and never again turned it back on.


Russ

We passed that way some years ago with the movie package: when it started, there was a reasonable selection of films available that we had not seen, would not have gone out to see, but that did pass a couple of hours after dinner. Later, they introduced a further set of movies: Premium, or something like that, where you then had to īphone up and pay over and above the package price. Recognizing a screw for a scew, we cancelled the lot and never missed a thing.

For similar reasons we never got around to changing from a Sony Trinitron to one of those thin sets. Each time we had a look in a dealerīs shop we came to the same conclusion: changing sets doth not programmes change! Where would lie the point?

Unfortunately, there is hardly anything left that is watchable other than the few different news channels, and even they tend to become an endless belt.

Thank God for the internet. And in the same breath, of course, photography!

Dale

I hadnīt thought of the death as a marketing opportunity. But I should have - stands to reason it would be the ideal moment to crank up the emotions of the gullible and part them from their money. What a sick world it can be. Actually, thatīs one good thing about youtube: you can find all manner of oldie but goodie stuff there, which can be both heart-warming and heart-breaking, often at the same time. Sure does bring back lots of good memories...

Rob C
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RSL
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« Reply #68 on: June 28, 2009, 10:24:34 AM »
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Russ

We passed that way some years ago with the movie package: when it started, there was a reasonable selection of films available that we had not seen, would not have gone out to see, but that did pass a couple of hours after dinner. Later, they introduced a further set of movies: Premium, or something like that, where you then had to īphone up and pay over and above the package price. Recognizing a screw for a scew, we cancelled the lot and never missed a thing.

For similar reasons we never got around to changing from a Sony Trinitron to one of those thin sets. Each time we had a look in a dealerīs shop we came to the same conclusion: changing sets doth not programmes change! Where would lie the point?

Unfortunately, there is hardly anything left that is watchable other than the few different news channels, and even they tend to become an endless belt.

Thank God for the internet. And in the same breath, of course, photography!

Rob C

Rob,

Unfortunately the world's supply of good movies is limited and doesn't seem to be growing. So at the moment I'm using my TV and DVD player to take The Teaching Company's 48 lecture course on the HIstory of European Art. It's pretty good. Next I think I'll do the 24 lecture course on the Impressionists. Too bad they don't have a lecture series on the history of photography. It would be a real help for Dale.
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Rob C
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« Reply #69 on: June 28, 2009, 02:29:35 PM »
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Rob,

Unfortunately the world's supply of good movies is limited and doesn't seem to be growing. So at the moment I'm using my TV and DVD player to take The Teaching Company's 48 lecture course on the HIstory of European Art. It's pretty good. Next I think I'll do the 24 lecture course on the Impressionists. Too bad they don't have a lecture series on the history of photography. It would be a real help for Dale.



Always did love those Parthians...

Rob C
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dalethorn
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« Reply #70 on: June 28, 2009, 04:37:28 PM »
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Quote from: RSL
Rob,
Too bad they don't have a lecture series on the history of photography. It would be a real help for Dale.

At least my photography smarts come from the living - a lot of experts in three photo societies I belong to.  That's Russ' problem - buried in the "classics", unable to open the coffin to breathe some fresh air.
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dalethorn
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« Reply #71 on: June 28, 2009, 04:56:33 PM »
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Quote from: Rob C
We passed that way some years ago with the movie package: when it started, there was a reasonable selection of films available that we had not seen, would not have gone out to see, but that did pass a couple of hours after dinner. Later, they introduced a further set of movies: Premium, or something like that, where you then had to īphone up and pay over and above the package price. Recognizing a screw for a scew, we cancelled the lot and never missed a thing.

I hadnīt thought of the death as a marketing opportunity. But I should have - stands to reason it would be the ideal moment to crank up the emotions of the gullible and part them from their money. What a sick world it can be.
Rob C

Oddly enough, in a long time on the Internet, and in live discussions at work or in the photo and computer clubs, this is the first time I remember anyone stating clearly how the scam works.  It's no different with coffee and cigarettes - those Sherm's you pay double or triple for aren't any better than the standard brands were 50-100 years ago.  Now on Mr. Jackson, if they could just find (or invent) some mysterious circumstances, they could have another Hendrix, Joplin, or Morrison to milk.  Too bad this one doesn't have any musical depth, like Stevie Wonder or Lionel Ritchie.
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RSL
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« Reply #72 on: June 28, 2009, 05:04:34 PM »
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Always did love those Parthians...

Rob C

Well, he doesn't go back quite that far. He starts with Charlemagne, but he does make reference to a bit of architectural plagiarism by the French and Germans from the Romans.
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popnfresh
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« Reply #73 on: June 29, 2009, 12:05:00 PM »
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Quote from: RSL
Pop, I'd say that Atget's posthumous coming out via Abbott in 1927 took place early in the twentieth century, unless 1927 isn't "early." Curtis made some fascinating photographs of American Indians early on, and yes, he did deliver to a large audience of pictorialists, to whom I'm assuming you refer when you talk about early 20th century fine art photographers. Stieglitz was a great promoter, but I can't see that his photography influenced many successors. Strand was the one who got him to turn away from pictorialism, so, in that case, the influence was reversed. When you say that Stieglitz was more influential than Atget you mean that Stieglitz did more promoting than Atget, who did no promoting at all. The thing that makes Atget influential is the quality of his work. Stieglitz did two or three fine pieces, but his photography simply didn't some up to the level of Atget's.
Well, Strand was first influenced most by Lewis Hine, who was his mentor. But it was Stieglitz who inspired Strand to pursue a career in fine art photography and gave him his first show at the 291 Gallery in New York. I'd call that pretty heavy influence. Of course, 1927 is somewhat early in an absolute sense, but not as far as fine art photography is concerned. By then, 291 Gallery had already been closed for a decade. Paul Strand, Edward Weston, Edward Steichen and Imogen Cunningham, to name a few, were well established artists. Atget became a major influence much later in the century--his influence on early 20th century photographers was minimal. It wasn't until the Museum of Modern Art purchased the Atget collection in 1968 that his work became widely known and he was given the recognition he richly deserved.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2009, 12:07:44 PM by popnfresh » Logged
RSL
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« Reply #74 on: June 29, 2009, 01:33:57 PM »
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Quote from: popnfresh
Well, Strand was first influenced most by Lewis Hine, who was his mentor. But it was Stieglitz who inspired Strand to pursue a career in fine art photography and gave him his first show at the 291 Gallery in New York. I'd call that pretty heavy influence. Of course, 1927 is somewhat early in an absolute sense, but not as far as fine art photography is concerned. By then, 291 Gallery had already been closed for a decade. Paul Strand, Edward Weston, Edward Steichen and Imogen Cunningham, to name a few, were well established artists. Atget became a major influence much later in the century--his influence on early 20th century photographers was minimal. It wasn't until the Museum of Modern Art purchased the Atget collection in 1968 that his work became widely known and he was given the recognition he richly deserved.

Pop, I guess that's one way to look at it, but a number of the people you mentioned were aware of Atget's work early on through Abbott or through association with one or another of the artists who bought his "documents." HCB certainly was. In The Decisive Moment he says, "... I met photographers who had some of Atget's prints. These I considered remarkable and, accordingly, I bought myself a tripod, a black cloth, and a polished walnut camera three by four inches..." This, of course, was before he turned to the Leica.

In any case, I think Stieglitz was a fine showman but not a great photographer. People seem to be confused about his photography because of the central role he played in making the work of some of the world's finest artists available to audiences in the U.S. Other than a few pictures such as The Steerage, The Terminal, and my personal favorite, Fifth Avenue, Winter, what great photographs did he produce? Yes, he got Strand to do serious photography, which was a plus, but later he turned up his nose at Walker Evans's work, which, in my estimation, removes a lot of the gilding from his crown. Seems to me an awful lot of Stieglitz's glamor came from his affair and later marriage with Georgia O'Keeffe. Actually, I see Stieglitz sort of as the Barnum of the fine art field.
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Rob C
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« Reply #75 on: June 29, 2009, 02:25:20 PM »
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Quote from: RSL
Actually, I see Stieglitz sort of as the Barnum of the fine art field.




For myself, I wouldnīt have minded being the Bailey.

;-)

Rob C
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« Reply #76 on: June 30, 2009, 10:46:56 AM »
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For myself, I wouldnīt have minded being the Bailey.

;-)

Rob C

Rob, He had a "Bailey" and her name was O'Keeffe, though a gal named Dorothy Norman pretty much replaced her as "Bailey" later on. Stieglitz really was a horny old goat.
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dalethorn
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« Reply #77 on: June 30, 2009, 11:18:50 AM »
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Quote from: RSL
Rob, He had a "Bailey" and her name was O'Keeffe, though a gal named Dorothy Norman pretty much replaced her as "Bailey" later on. Stieglitz really was a horny old goat.

Something that you may not have considered since it's not in your playbook - he may not have been horny at all, he may have actually liked women as friends.
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Rob C
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« Reply #78 on: June 30, 2009, 12:33:28 PM »
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Quote from: dalethorn
Something that you may not have considered since it's not in your playbook - he may not have been horny at all, he may have actually liked women as friends.


Sounds a bit of a waist - sorry, waste.

Rob C
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Rob C
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« Reply #79 on: June 30, 2009, 12:43:00 PM »
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Quote from: RSL
Rob, He had a "Bailey" and her name was O'Keeffe, though a gal named Dorothy Norman pretty much replaced her as "Bailey" later on. Stieglitz really was a horny old goat.


Itīs what has always made the world go round.

Have you ever wondered about the odd train of thought that finds horniness in the young admirable, but not so magnificent with the old? Given the downright cruel nature of life, I would have thought that a priapic old guy was worth more than a now-and-again young one.

Just a mild thought, which reminds me of those boats on trailers you see in seaside towns like this one: "Tender to..." imagine owning a boat called Tumescent.

Itīs quite hot here in Spain just now; one loses a lot of moisture so I suppose Iīd better go and have some water.

Rob C
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