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Author Topic: Comparisons between Mamiya and Hasselblad lenses  (Read 15391 times)
scott morrish
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« on: May 25, 2009, 07:19:16 AM »
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Hi.

I am a user of an H1 and phase backs.
I like the phase backs more than i like the H cameras, so thanks to Hasselblad locking third party backs out of a 'Hasselblad camera and lens system' in the future... I am seriously considering switching to the Phase Body and lenses (mainly a question of when).  I would appreciate any observations concerning the capabilities of the Hassy or latest phase / mamiya lenses (D) to cope with the latest generation of sensors like the P65.

Phase seems to be in the middle of a transition / expansion, so it seems there will be more lenses on the horizon. Leaf shutters are irrelevant to me.

I have tested a P65 with the phases latest lenses, and they seem very good, but my only point of comparison is the P45+ with the H lenses... so i do not know which differences are the lenses, or the sensors? (Unfortunately MTF charts have always been a mystery to me).

Hoping someone can shed light on these matters for me,
Many thanks,
Scott


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michele
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« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2009, 07:55:39 AM »
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If you can wait, a friend of mine has just bought a new H3DII-39 with the 35-90mm, I have a PhaseOne camera with the p45+ and an 80mmD (also a 35mm analogi and the 120mmD)... We are waiting the box with the hasselblad to test our 80mm... unfortunatly they are not at the same class, but the 35-90 should be a stellar lens...
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Dick Roadnight
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« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2009, 03:32:22 PM »
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Quote from: scott morrish
Hi.
I am a user of an H1 and phase backs.
Scott
I have the H3D11-50 and 50-110 zoom, and a set of Schneider apo-digitars, and a Sinar P3.

Next week I pick up the adaptor and get the lenses mounted, so I am looking forward to results.

Nice thing about the Hassy is that , for only a grand or two more than the DCU alone, you can get a point-and-shoot adaptor, with auto-focus.
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paul_jones
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« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2009, 03:42:21 PM »
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Quote from: scott morrish
Hi.

I am a user of an H1 and phase backs.
I like the phase backs more than i like the H cameras, so thanks to Hasselblad locking third party backs out of a 'Hasselblad camera and lens system' in the future... I am seriously considering switching to the Phase Body and lenses (mainly a question of when).  I would appreciate any observations concerning the capabilities of the Hassy or latest phase / mamiya lenses (D) to cope with the latest generation of sensors like the P65.

Phase seems to be in the middle of a transition / expansion, so it seems there will be more lenses on the horizon. Leaf shutters are irrelevant to me.

I have tested a P65 with the phases latest lenses, and they seem very good, but my only point of comparison is the P45+ with the H lenses... so i do not know which differences are the lenses, or the sensors? (Unfortunately MTF charts have always been a mystery to me).

Hoping someone can shed light on these matters for me,
Many thanks,
Scott


why do you need to change from the h system? its not like there is a shortage of h1/2's, they are cheap and plentiful, you can easily own a spare as backup. the only thing you are missing out on with the h3 is a very wide lens and a very expensive lazy mans zoom.

i have thought hard about other systems, and would be happy to change if there was something better, but i really think the hasselbald h and phase is the best combination for me (although i have an aptus, i had phase, and  would like a p65)

paul
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scott morrish
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« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2009, 05:31:10 AM »
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Quote from: michele
If you can wait, a friend of mine has just bought a new H3DII-39 with the 35-90mm, I have a PhaseOne camera with the p45+ and an 80mmD (also a 35mm analogi and the 120mmD)... We are waiting the box with the hasselblad to test our 80mm... unfortunatly they are not at the same class, but the 35-90 should be a stellar lens...

I look forward to seeing what you make of them?
thanks.
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scott morrish
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« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2009, 06:01:30 AM »
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Quote from: paul_jones
why do you need to change from the h system?
paul

For me the issues are admittedly a little muddled.
Hasselblad have followed an odd path, that as i understand it, includes adding new lenses with different coverage. So they have a 28... but not one that you'd want to use if you have a full frame sensor. And they now have a wider zoom... one that is reliant on DAC... which only makes sense if you use one of their backs and their software... but i don't plan to do either of those things.

And then there is the question of how well the H lenses will fare with the P65's extra resolving power? Are they as good as the new D lenses from phase?
The new phase lenses are very, very good from what i have seen so far, but their system does not have a new 35mm lens yet! Again not sure the old 35 mm is good enough from either company. Their next zoom is set to be the 45-90... but why overlap the 70-150?, Surely 35-70 would be better?

Hasselblad seem to have a plan that is company first, customers second. Their choice, and maybe good for their business, but not too keen on that as i want to stick with the phase backs.

Phase seem to have a clear plan, but for their camera system it is still work-in-progress. Guess it just turns out to be an odd time to be thinking of switching... neither system is ideal yet.

I know i prefer the phase backs, and i think i prefer the phase plan for their camera system... they just need them to get more new lenses into the market asap. May well be a philistine approach in some peoples eyes, but i don't care too much for either companies software... i prefer lightroom, so once the back is supported in lightroom, their software is not a significant consideration for me.

Regards,
Scott
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scott morrish
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« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2009, 06:02:29 AM »
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If anyone has used a Phase or Hassy 35mm with a P65+, i would be intrigued to know how either lens stood up to scrutiny?

Scott
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arashm
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« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2009, 07:22:46 AM »
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Scott
just as an FYI
it's confirmed that there will not be a 45-90
at least the one that was shown about a year ago.
thanks
am
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heinrichvoelkel
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« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2009, 07:35:02 AM »
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Quote from: arashm
Scott
just as an FYI
it's confirmed that there will not be a 45-90
at least the one that was shown about a year ago.
thanks
am


Who confirmed this? And which 45-90? Hasselblad got the 35-90 still on their site with a current product number.
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arashm
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« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2009, 08:19:38 AM »
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Quote from: heinrichvoelkel
Who confirmed this? And which 45-90? Hasselblad got the 35-90 still on their site with a current product number.

Sorry for not being clear about this
it's my understanding that the Mamiya 45-904.5 has been canceled, Maybe some one from phase or Ci can chime in please with accurate info.

The Hasselblad 35-90 is shipping, I've had some limited hands on and it's very nice, really fast AF, but pricy!
am
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michael
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« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2009, 08:21:58 AM »
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Just be aware that the P65+ stresses every component in the shooting chain, from lens, to tripod, to head, to focus ability.

It is significantly more revealing of poor technique and support equipment than any imaging device I've ever used.

There are several of us with P65+'s that are struggling with this almost daily, and sharing our experiences with each other, including Mark Dubovoy.

If you haven't already, have a look at my recent essay and articles by Joe Holmes.

So, the lens is just one component in the chain to consider.

As for a direct answer to your question, I have several of the new Phase / Mamiya D series lenses and each one of them is very good indeed. The 75-150mm zoom is exceptional, but be sure you get a good one. There seems to be a lot of unit variation.

The new 28mm, 45mm, and 80mm are all excellent. I have the older 120mm Macro, 210mm and 300mm and each of these is also very good with the P65+.

Michael
« Last Edit: May 29, 2009, 08:50:19 AM by michael » Logged
Dick Roadnight
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« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2009, 08:36:53 AM »
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Quote from: paul_jones
...the only thing you are missing out on with the h3 is a very wide lens and a very expensive lazy mans zoom.

i have thought hard about other systems, and would be happy to change if there was something better, but i really think the hasselbald h and phase is the best combination for me (although i have an aptus, i had phase, and  would like a p65)
paul
Why use the Phase instead of the Hasselblad 50Mpx (or soon the 60Mpx)?

I have the 50-110mm zoom... it was not expensive, they threw it in as discount... and when you cannot choose your viewpoint to make the scene match the angle of your lens, it is very useful... and so sharp you can just about count every brick, block and tile on all the houses in a village.
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scott morrish
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« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2009, 08:47:20 AM »
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Quote from: michael
Just be aware that the P65+ stresses every component in the shooting chain, from lens, to tripod, to head, to focus ability.

It is significantly more revealing of poor technique and support equipment than any imaging device I've ever used.

There are several of us with P65+'s that are struggling with this almost daily, and sharing our experiences with each other, including Mark Dubovoy.

If you haven't already, have a look at Joe Holmes recent essay.

So, the lens is just one component in the chain to consider.

As for a direct answer to your question, I have several of the new Phase / Mamiya D series lenses and each one of them is very good indeed. The 75-150mm zoom is exceptional, but be sure you get a good one. There seems to be a lot of unit variation.

The new 28mm, 45mm, and 80mm are all excellent. I have the older 120mm Macro, 210mm and 300mm and each of these is also very good with the P65+.

Michael

Hi Michael,

I discovered just how 'fussy' it was whilst testing a couple of weeks ago. I tested the newer Phase D lenses, and was really struck with the 75-150 and also the 120mm. With the 120 i see things in the files that i had no idea were there... jaw-dropping detail in many respects!

The 28 is wider than i need, and when combined with the price, i personally can not justify that lens. Can i ask, of those you know that have the P65, has anyone had good results with a 35mm lens, (Phase or Hassy)?

Also, it is interesting that you talk of a daily struggle. Are there situations where a P45+ would actually be the better choice?

Regards,
Scott


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michael
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« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2009, 08:57:02 AM »
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I don't have any experience with the 35mm. Sorry.

No, given the choice, I wouldn't choose the P45+ over the P65+ for any application. It's just that the higher up the resolution chain that one goes, the more glaring any deficiencies become.

Michael

Ps: I successfully hand held the P65+ on the deck of a moving ship in Antarctica, and got excellent results, so one shouldn't assume that a concrete slab platform and 30Lb tripod are always necessary. Just good technique and common sense.

Michael

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Guy Mancuso
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« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2009, 09:01:26 AM »
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Pick up the 150 mm 2.8 D lens it is amazing on any of the backs and the P65 is no exception. I have the 28, 45, 80 and 150 all D lenses and my favorite is that 150 D. Also the 300mm AF which is not a D lens but sure is extremely good. Not sure the Hassy glass would be any better or any other lenses for that matter. It's the damn name that people think the worst and simple not true. Sure there are dogs and lens variation on some but I tried every back Phase has put out except the P40 + which in 2 weeks I will try but the weakest one is the 28mm in the far corners but C1 finally put in corner sharpness adjustments in the program and it has helped a great deal except maybe the P65+ since it is Full Frame the very far corners still maybe soft but I have not tested that since corner sharpness was activated for the 28mm nor have I tried the new 45mm D on the P65 plus.

As far as the 35mm it is a good lens but I would not consider it great. Very sharp in center and very good out to the corners, watch for sample variation here . I had a good one and it preformed very well but I would suspect we may see this in a D version someday but they are relatively inexpensive used like 800 to 900 dollars and I would not shy away from buying one again corner sharpness control is very effective on this lens.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2009, 09:06:04 AM by Guy Mancuso » Logged

DesW
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« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2009, 09:40:12 AM »
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Quote from: Guy Mancuso
I will try but the weakest one is the 28mm in the far corners but C1 finally put in corner sharpness adjustments in the program and it has helped a great deal except maybe the P65+ since it is Full Frame the very far corners still maybe soft but I have not tested that since corner sharpness was activated for the 28mm nor have I tried the new 45mm D on the P65 plus.

 Hi there,

Yes indeed I would recommend one proceed with caution when considering the 28mm Mamiya --The first one they sent us was a Pig!

DesW

[attachment=14111:28mm_lens_1.jpg]
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jing q
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« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2009, 10:09:52 AM »
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Mamiya's got a wide line-up, unfortunately it's so patchy.
apparently the mamiya's got a good 75-150mm and a good 150mm, too bad these are focal lengths I almost never use (usually 45mm-100mm tops)
they've got a track record for vaporware vs hassy which delivers on what they promise, so that's something to take note of.
I gave up on waiting for a 45-90mm zoom and ANY leaf shutter lenses.

the hassy lenses perform well overall, at least there are no pigs in the lineup.
and most importantly they have the range that I want (that 35-90mm is veryyy tempting.)
on the bright side if you want weird lenses the mamiya can adapt a range of lenses, plus the older M645 range of lenses can be quite interesting.
80mm f/1.9 for a crappy looking softness if that's what you're going for!
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jing q
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« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2009, 10:11:33 AM »
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one more thing:
I would recommend going with the lens that helps you focus the most accurately.
that will offset any issues with lens IQ between cameras
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Guy Mancuso
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« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2009, 10:45:25 AM »
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Quote from: jing q
Mamiya's got a wide line-up, unfortunately it's so patchy.
apparently the mamiya's got a good 75-150mm and a good 150mm, too bad these are focal lengths I almost never use (usually 45mm-100mm tops)
they've got a track record for vaporware vs hassy which delivers on what they promise, so that's something to take note of.
I gave up on waiting for a 45-90mm zoom and ANY leaf shutter lenses.

the hassy lenses perform well overall, at least there are no pigs in the lineup.
and most importantly they have the range that I want (that 35-90mm is veryyy tempting.)
on the bright side if you want weird lenses the mamiya can adapt a range of lenses, plus the older M645 range of lenses can be quite interesting.
80mm f/1.9 for a crappy looking softness if that's what you're going for!


 I think the hope here is with the infusion of money from Phase will bring out product that was announced and future product and my GUESS was Mamiya was hurting for money and could not produce the product announced earlier. No inside info here just my guess but with money from Phase i think all owners of this system see it as a very positive investment and more important a future. Frankly I would like to see a improved body more. I have no real issues with any of the glass i own.
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jing q
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« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2009, 10:58:49 AM »
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Quote from: Guy Mancuso
I think the hope here is with the infusion of money from Phase will bring out product that was announced and future product and my GUESS was Mamiya was hurting for money and could not produce the product announced earlier. No inside info here just my guess but with money from Phase i think all owners of this system see it as a very positive investment and more important a future. Frankly I would like to see a improved body more. I have no real issues with any of the glass i own.

one thing I've learnt in medium format world- don't trust any promises until the products actually ship.
I'm sure a number of us have been burnt too many times already.
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