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Author Topic: room lighting for your work space?  (Read 7251 times)
tived
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« on: June 01, 2009, 01:23:54 AM »
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Hi guys,

I have just moved to a new house and I am setting up my work space/station/den. I have decided that this time I will get the solux light bulbs.

reading on their website http://solux.net/cgi-bin/tlistore/infopage...r-proofing.html and the articles from different users such as JohnPaulCaponigro http://solux.net/cgi-bin/tlistore/infopage...r-proofing.html I am getting a little confused.

which do I choose. 3500k or 4700k ?

or maybe both? one end of the office for viewing and the other for color correcting ?

http://www.imagescience.com.au/kb/question...+Solux+Lighting this site also offers some interesting information as is semi local to me.

next question is, can you add a dimmer to the lights obviously one can, but what does it do to the color of the light?

My office won't be huge, I will be having an L-shaped desk with 2-3 computers. my small printers 17" and A4 printers. I have blocked all sun light out, and currently there is just one halogen light in the center of the room (15m2) cosy :-)

how do I set myself up so i get the best lighting for editing/color correcting and viewing photos from my printer to evaluate them. I am thinking of building a viewing booth as well or make the room a viewing booth...but perhaps that is not the ideal situation.

please let me know what you think

thanks

Henrik
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ThePhotoDude
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« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2009, 09:36:47 AM »
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Quote from: tived
Hi guys,

I have just moved to a new house and I am setting up my work space/station/den. I have decided that this time I will get the solux light bulbs.

reading on their website http://solux.net/cgi-bin/tlistore/infopage...r-proofing.html and the articles from different users such as JohnPaulCaponigro http://solux.net/cgi-bin/tlistore/infopage...r-proofing.html I am getting a little confused.

which do I choose. 3500k or 4700k ?

or maybe both? one end of the office for viewing and the other for color correcting ?

http://www.imagescience.com.au/kb/question...+Solux+Lighting this site also offers some interesting information as is semi local to me.

next question is, can you add a dimmer to the lights obviously one can, but what does it do to the color of the light?

My office won't be huge, I will be having an L-shaped desk with 2-3 computers. my small printers 17" and A4 printers. I have blocked all sun light out, and currently there is just one halogen light in the center of the room (15m2) cosy :-)

how do I set myself up so i get the best lighting for editing/color correcting and viewing photos from my printer to evaluate them. I am thinking of building a viewing booth as well or make the room a viewing booth...but perhaps that is not the ideal situation.

please let me know what you think

thanks

Henrik


It's quite simple really, if the only place your prints are going to be viewed is in your workshop then use any color temp lighting you want!  

What I mean is, even if they say that 3500k "is the new fine art standard" - you need to think of where your prints are going to end up. Hardly any of your customers are going to have the same colour temp lighting to view your prints, you will have mixed lighting in many places. The Solux 4700K are a D50 standard which IS what most photographers and perhaps galleries will use. D50 is the closest to natural light and this is where you need to be aiming for unless your customer has exact requirements.

Dimming the lights most certainly will affect the colour output of them, best not to add a dimmer as the switch itself may has some internal electrical resistance which skews the voltage.
And you wouldn't want to complete a whole proofing set only to find out later the dimmer switch wasn't cranked up and was only at 95% !!

I have two sets of Solux 4700K illuminating a large portion of a wall 90degs to my workstation, this is where I hang prints for soft proofing etc.

Remember to paint your walls a lovely gray!

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Jack Flesher
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« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2009, 11:49:39 AM »
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Quote from: ThePhotoDude
What I mean is, even if they say that 3500k "is the new fine art standard" - you need to think of where your prints are going to end up. Hardly any of your customers are going to have the same colour temp lighting to view your prints, you will have mixed lighting in many places. The Solux 4700K are a D50 standard which IS what most photographers and perhaps galleries will use. D50 is the closest to natural light and this is where you need to be aiming for unless your customer has exact requirements.

Dimming the lights most certainly will affect the colour output of them, best not to add a dimmer as the switch itself may has some internal electrical resistance which skews the voltage.
And you wouldn't want to complete a whole proofing set only to find out later the dimmer switch wasn't cranked up and was only at 95% !!

Precisely!  A friend of mine -- who is also fairly prominent landscape photographer -- surprised me one day when he "proofed" one of his prints with a regular household bulb in a $15 reflector housing!  I asked him why on earth he did that when we had the viewing station right there?  The light-bulb (ha!) went off for me when he said, "Because this is the type of light 90% of my customers view my prints under!"  Duh.  My dedicated viewing station sits mostly idle unless I am trying to impress somebody visiting my studio work area  

Cheers,
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Alan Goldhammer
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« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2009, 12:40:44 PM »
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I think you can drive yourself crazy with all of this.  I have my work bench for viewing, matting and framing in a separate room with an overhead fixture with compact fluorescent bulbs in it.  This is really not like the real world and also not where I hang pictures (or expect them to be hung by others).  I have a nice workbench (cobbled together from various Ikea items) and bought a simple Verilux shop lamp that clamps right on that gives me "full spectrum" light at the flick of a switch (see:  Verilux Shop Light  I looked at the Solux website and can't tell you whether my light is better than theirs only that I'm a happy camper and the Verilux light is good for proofing purposes.  As someone already noted you may not have any control over the lighting where your prints finally end up.
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tived
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« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2009, 12:17:41 AM »
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Quote from: Jack Flesher
Precisely!  A friend of mine -- who is also fairly prominent landscape photographer -- surprised me one day when he "proofed" one of his prints with a regular household bulb in a $15 reflector housing!  I asked him why on earth he did that when we had the viewing station right there?  The light-bulb (ha!) went off for me when he said, "Because this is the type of light 90% of my customers view my prints under!"  Duh.  My dedicated viewing station sits mostly idle unless I am trying to impress somebody visiting my studio work area  

Cheers,

Interesting point :-)

hmm, not really any wiser

Henrik
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tived
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« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2009, 12:22:39 AM »
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I guess, from our point, the photographer / printer, we need to have some kind of standard, to avoid issues such as, well it doesn't look that good at my place. Well if you change your light, this might bring your new expensive image back to life.

Maybe I have gotten it wrong.

In my own situation, I do work for, myself and other photographers, publishers, prints, canvas, books, etc... i need to feel confident that I am eliminating any potential problems

How to best deal with this, and yes, I am probably going crazy :-) its that elusive search for that something... :-)

Henrik
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tho_mas
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« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2009, 04:19:10 AM »
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Quote from: tived
I guess, from our point, the photographer / printer, we need to have some kind of standard, to avoid issues such as, well it doesn't look that good at my place. Well if you change your light, this might bring your new expensive image back to life.

Maybe I have gotten it wrong.

In my own situation, I do work for, myself and other photographers, publishers, prints, canvas, books, etc... i need to feel confident that I am eliminating any potential problems

How to best deal with this, and yes, I am probably going crazy :-) its that elusive search for that something... :-)
I think you're right.
Actually the most important thing is that the white point of the display matches the ambient light in which you eye up prints.
The D50 lighting is daylight with reduced UV... this is important to avoid metamerism errors and this is why it is a standard for printing.
D50 is NOT approriate for all purposes - for example to eye up real objects such as synthetics and many other materials. But it is appropriate to eye up prints.
So if you make your setting with D50 and within this setting everything looks right... in will look right under the most other conditions AS LONG AS THERE IS NO DIRECT COMPARISION to the initial setup. My prints (working with D50 here) look okay in natural daylight... as long as my eyes are adopted to the daylight. They look okay in the evening with 2900K tungsten... as long as my eyes are adopted to the tungsten light. When I work at the monitor in the evening, go in another room with tungsten lights and look at my prints they look too warm. After 10 minutes they look fine... because my eyes are adopting to the warm light.

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xtranch
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« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2009, 07:40:07 PM »
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Quote from: tho_mas
I think you're right.
Actually the most important thing is that the white point of the display matches the ambient light in which you eye up prints.
The D50 lighting is daylight with reduced UV... this is important to avoid metamerism errors and this is why it is a standard for printing.
D50 is NOT approriate for all purposes - for example to eye up real objects such as synthetics and many other materials. But it is appropriate to eye up prints.
So if you make your setting with D50 and within this setting everything looks right... in will look right under the most other conditions AS LONG AS THERE IS NO DIRECT COMPARISION to the initial setup. My prints (working with D50 here) look okay in natural daylight... as long as my eyes are adopted to the daylight. They look okay in the evening with 2900K tungsten... as long as my eyes are adopted to the tungsten light. When I work at the monitor in the evening, go in another room with tungsten lights and look at my prints they look too warm. After 10 minutes they look fine... because my eyes are adopting to the warm light.
I am using a solux lamp for viewing prints, not for my clients, but to have a consistent light source that will let me compare the print to my screen. I dont want variations due to time of day or various types of bulbs in my house. I am using 4700k but realize most people are not going to see them in this light.
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eleanorbrown
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« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2009, 08:58:18 PM »
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I use Solux 4700K for proofing by my computer but use Solux 3500K for viewing finished prints in my studio and around my house.  Seems to me I read that galleries  do not use 4700K but more like 3000 to 3500K.  Eleanor
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peteh
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« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2009, 03:41:46 AM »
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Quote from: eleanorbrown
I use Solux 4700K for proofing by my computer but use Solux 3500K for viewing finished prints in my studio and around my house.  Seems to me I read that galleries  do not use 4700K but more like 3000 to 3500K.  Eleanor
I called Solux today to ask the same question. I'm using 4700 K lights but they said to use 3500K. I guess most "Big Gallery's or well known one's" use their 3500K bulbs.
My prints look fine outdoors at around noon when full sun on print.Cannot see any difference from 4700K indoors.I like a white like light, I have Glaucoma and Diabetes also, less strain on my eyes .
Solux.net has some open boxed items on sale, call them and see what's left for 10- 30 % off now.
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papa v2.0
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« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2009, 09:23:56 AM »
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Hi

ISO 3664:2009 specifies viewing conditions for images on both reflective and transmissive media, such as prints (both photographic and photomechanical) and transparencies, as well as images displayed in isolation on colour monitors.

ISO 3664


There are good papers on the ICC website that outline the problems with proofing and viewing conditions.

http://www.color.org/info_profiles2.xalter

eg. Under Proofing

      Viewing Conditions, Colorimetric Measurements and Profile Making
      David Q. McDowell   (First published in IPA Bulletin, November 2004
     
      Under Standards

      April 2005 Proof-to-print matching
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tived
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« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2009, 01:11:28 AM »
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thanks,

I have the older version of ISO, hmm is there much new information?

Henrik
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digitaldog
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« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2009, 08:43:18 AM »
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Quote from: eleanorbrown
I use Solux 4700K for proofing by my computer but use Solux 3500K for viewing finished prints in my studio and around my house.  Seems to me I read that galleries  do not use 4700K but more like 3000 to 3500K.  Eleanor

That's my recommendation too. For proofing, where you may be working towards an idealized print to display match and/or other's using similar reference environments, go 4700K. But for finished prints (in an office, gallery etc), the 3500K are more pleasing.
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Andrew Rodney
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Jack Flesher
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« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2009, 08:52:34 AM »
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Quote from: tived
Interesting point :-)

hmm, not really any wiser

Henrik

The point is to view your images under the same light any given client will be viewing it under...
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tived
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« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2009, 09:02:47 PM »
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Quote from: Jack Flesher
The point is to view your images under the same light any given client will be viewing it under...

Thanks Jack,

I get that part, but how do you know what light people will be using, or should we go the other way and tell the client what kind of light to view images under, such as what John Caprinegro suggest ?

I guess, in my own particular situation, I am doing work for a variety of people and outlets, and sometimes have no idea where things will end up and therefore need to stay with some standard, that will satisfy everyone ;-)

So it is either dictate the viewing conditions to clients and/or stick to a standard such as 5000k (Solux 4700k working evaluating light and Solux 3500k viewing light), I am leaning towards, getting two packs(5x) of lights of each color temp and set up the office so that I work under the 4700k and in the other end view under 3500k, this way I guess I will have the best of both worlds.

It is becoming more and more costly chasing this elusive something :-)

thanks,

Henrik
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tived
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« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2009, 09:04:00 PM »
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Quote from: eleanorbrown
I use Solux 4700K for proofing by my computer but use Solux 3500K for viewing finished prints in my studio and around my house.  Seems to me I read that galleries  do not use 4700K but more like 3000 to 3500K.  Eleanor

Thanks Eleanor,

Yes, I think your solution makes a lot sense and one that I think will be the one I choose to use as well. Thanks for sharing

Henrik
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tived
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« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2009, 09:05:42 PM »
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Quote from: digitaldog
That's my recommendation too. For proofing, where you may be working towards an idealized print to display match and/or other's using similar reference environments, go 4700K. But for finished prints (in an office, gallery etc), the 3500K are more pleasing.

Thanks Andrew, Its good to have this verified and supported.
I will go with this approach, thanks
Henrik
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tived
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« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2009, 09:14:19 PM »
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Quote from: Alan Goldhammer
I think you can drive yourself crazy with all of this.  I have my work bench for viewing, matting and framing in a separate room with an overhead fixture with compact fluorescent bulbs in it.  This is really not like the real world and also not where I hang pictures (or expect them to be hung by others).  I have a nice workbench (cobbled together from various Ikea items) and bought a simple Verilux shop lamp that clamps right on that gives me "full spectrum" light at the flick of a switch (see:  Verilux Shop Light  I looked at the Solux website and can't tell you whether my light is better than theirs only that I'm a happy camper and the Verilux light is good for proofing purposes.  As someone already noted you may not have any control over the lighting where your prints finally end up.

Hi Alan,

thanks for replying - yes I think I am driving myself and everyone else crazy with this. I have had in the past, some issues with a cast in some images I edited simply because of some stray light entering the room, which was the due to my college wanted to have sunlight in the office, very much against my will. The result was reflected in the final print. We don't work together anymore :-)

However, in the end of the day what works for one person, may not work for the next. If you archive results that both you and your clients are happy with, you can't complain.

Some people think I am pedantic, I am not disagreeing :-) but my standards may not be considered high compared some of you guys here, and others may think I am going completely over board :-) I am seeking this something, that makes me feel confident that what is send out, is as good as i can do it at that particular time. Knowing well, that I can improve and strive to improve too. :-)

thanks for the link, it is certainly something to consider, but I think for the time being, I will go with the Solux solution and find fittings to suit.

Henrik
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« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2009, 09:37:12 PM »
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Call me a color weirdo, but I actually have about 6 different light sources in my studio in an attempt to replicate many different viewing environments that my customers may have. In my printing room, I have a strip of track lights with 3500K, 4100K and 4700K Solux bulbs. No windows in this room. In another room I have incandescent floods, outside windows, overhead fluorescents and a few table lamps. It is interesting to move around a print between different light sources, for sure, but my favorite lights to use for my own eyes are the 3500K Solux bulbs.
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Andy Biggs
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tived
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« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2009, 01:00:45 AM »
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Quote from: abiggs
Call me a color weirdo, but I actually have about 6 different light sources in my studio in an attempt to replicate many different viewing environments that my customers may have. In my printing room, I have a strip of track lights with 3500K, 4100K and 4700K Solux bulbs. No windows in this room. In another room I have incandescent floods, outside windows, overhead fluorescents and a few table lamps. It is interesting to move around a print between different light sources, for sure, but my favorite lights to use for my own eyes are the 3500K Solux bulbs.

Hi Andy,

Yes, I have played these games too with customers who claims the color is not correct....it does leave it pretty wide open. However, I am really trying to avoid this, cos lets say you come to Australia and require work done for some clients of yours that you are unable to do yourself (lets just play this game :-) ) and you get someone like me to do your work. You come back pick up your prints of the beautiful red australian dirt :-) only to find when you get home, that it isn;t red when you look at it, only in one of your six different lighting setups...but you had intended to have this print viewed in another light.

So, do we need to specify what lighting condition we are expecting to view our prints or do we dictate to our customers what lighting conditions they should view our work in?

I am not saying that your solution is wrong, and I guess there isn't such a thing as wrong lighting, just different or more or less pleasing :-)

thanks though for adding this, I have found my self so many times, taking clients around to different light sources and explaining them this ;-)

thanks

Henrik

PS: And NO, I would not call your a color weirdo - if you are, then I am one too  
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