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Author Topic: Why they didn't annuonced eos 20d earlier????  (Read 4171 times)
mau970
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« on: August 24, 2004, 08:19:07 AM »
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[font color=\'#000000\']Sorry, I forgot to introduce myself

My name is maurizio[/font]
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mau970
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« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2004, 09:16:47 AM »
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[font color=\'#000000\']here in italy the medium market price was 1790.[/font]
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David Mantripp
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« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2004, 05:23:22 AM »
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[font color=\'#000000\']Maurizio, the 10D is a very good camera, and the main purpose of the 20D, apart from giving people something to talk about, is to satisfy the needs of Canon marketing to have something new to announce.

Probably you'd wait for 4-5 months to get a 20D.  And you'd get one from the first batch, which will be full of bugs (real and imaginary) because quality control has been sacrificied to the Gods of New Stuff.

Actually, there is a significant body of opinion that for computers at least, it is often best to buy a model at the moment that its succesor is anounced. That way you tend to get a relatively stable and debugged product at a good price, rather than pay a high premium to be a beta tester.[/font]
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Jonathan Wienke
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« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2004, 03:34:51 PM »
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[font color=\'#000000\']Maurizio, your complaint is just plain silly. How has the announcement of the 20D affected your camera? It hasn't. Your 10D (and mine) work just as well as they did before the announcement. The reason Canon is THE dominant player in the camera marketplace is because they regularly introduce new models that significantly improve on their predecessors, in image quality and all-around performance. Some D30 owners complained like you when the D60 was introduced, as did D60 owners when the 10D was introduced. But the fact is that photographers in general benefit greatly overall by this rapid advancement in technology. So what if the resale value of the camera has dropped? Go take some pictures; you only lose money if you sell the camera at a loss. Besides, it will likely be a few months before the 20D is available in sufficient quantity for you to actually buy one. So the choice is simple:

A. Buy today's model and know it will be overshadowed by tomorrow's model, use it and make some money and increase your skill as a photographer, or

B. Sit on your butt and wait until 20X6 when they finally build the perfect camera that can't go any farther technologically, but you're too old and senile to care anymore. Or maybe dead.

I choose A. And I also own the $7000+ 1Ds, which is likely to be replaced by a new and improved model at Photokina. Don't be mad at Canon for improving the options photographers have when buying a DSLR, that's just as stupid as getting mad at Intel every time they introduce a new and faster CPU chip.[/font]
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mau970
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« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2004, 07:07:37 AM »
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[font color=\'#000000\']I bought an EOS 10d for 1650 in the second week of august and I'm very disappointed to know that canon is going to introduce a new dslr without practically any forewarn. The italian Canon official site doesn't speek about the new camera at all.[/font]
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mau970
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« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2004, 08:16:32 AM »
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[font color=\'#000000\']Ok, you're saying that it's correct to make customers spend lot of money for something that will be soon dismissed (and, consequently will lose it's value). If a motor company decide to release a new model of a car, it advertize that event months earlier so that customers can decide to buy current version or wait for the new one or else to buy current version at a lower price.

thanks[/font]
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boku
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« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2004, 08:27:28 AM »
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[font color=\'#000000\']
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Ok, you're saying that it's correct to make customers spend lot of money for something that will be soon dismissed (and, consequently will lose it's value). If a motor company decide to release a new model of a car, it advertize that event months earlier so that customers can decide to buy current version or wait for the new one or else to buy current version at a lower price.

thanks
I'm here to tell you that the Canon 10D is a fine camera. True, you could have waited and got the 20D (it is not yet available), but in the meantime you would have nothing. The 20D is a minor evolution of the 10D.

If you bought the camera to take good pictures you are already in business. If you bought the camera for its market value and newness factor, then I guess you have a problem.

But...

You will always have that problem. Digital cameras are not, I repeat, NOT, an investment. Technology products are a moving target. You will be fighting a loosing battle trying to stay ahead of the curve.

Enjoy your 10D - it is one of the best tools you will ever own. It is a proven winner.[/font]
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Bob Kulon

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boku
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« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2004, 09:09:57 AM »
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[font color=\'#000000\']I agree with you that technology products are not good investments (like car also). My comment was on canon's commercial attitude and not on technological trends.[/font]
[font color=\'#000000\']Well, despite no "announcement" from Canon, the street price of the 10D in the USA dropped about $250 in the last few months.

Didin't it do the same in Europe? Did you just pay to much due to your lack of shopping around?[/font]
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Bob Kulon

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BJL
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« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2004, 12:42:25 PM »
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[font color=\'#000000\']Canon typically gives only short notice of new products; this is typical of a company witha similar current product that is still selling well, so that premature announcement will largely hurt sales of that older model.

At times other companies do the opposite, publicising a coming product well before its release (e.g. the Pentax *-ist D, Olympus E-1 and the coming Konica-Minolta DLSR); this is typical when the company has no similar current product, so that advance notice will mostly have the effect of making some people wait, instead of buying another company's product now.

Both strategies get criticised, but both are dictated by the company's commercial interests, so we just have to get used to it I think. I agree that in a buyer's eutopia, we would always getting plenty of advanced notice of coming products.[/font]
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Alberio
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« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2004, 07:02:31 PM »
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[font color=\'#000000\']
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Ok, you're saying that it's correct to make customers spend lot of money for something that will be soon dismissed (and, consequently will lose it's value). If a motor company decide to release a new model of a car, it advertize that event months earlier so that customers can decide to buy current version or wait for the new one or else to buy current version at a lower price.

thanks
Is it just me, or am I the only one who is puzzled why you are complaining

- that you didn't do any research of your own, even when that information was easily available via Google for months?

- that Canon doesn't advertise cameras like cars?

- and that Canon hasn't advertised the 20D in Italy when it isn't going to be released there as soon as in other places?

I think if you're going to rely on the manufacturer to tell you everything about its products, you leave yourself open to what you did with the 10D.

I do agree that the camera market has very few major players, and consequently that Canon (and Nikon to some extent) has nearly complete control about how its products are sold. I'd be pissed off if I didn't know that Canon produces excellent and competitive stuff and has not engaged in any obvious monopolistic practices.

Surely you can sell the 10D within 100-200 of your purchase price, even now?[/font]
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Steve Kerman
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« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2004, 11:27:15 PM »
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[font color=\'#000000\']So, Maurizio, are you saying that Canon should have Osborned the 10D?[/font]
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Ray
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« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2004, 06:37:13 AM »
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[font color=\'#000000\']Actually, there is a significant body of opinion that for computers at least, it is often best to buy a model at the moment that its succesor is anounced. That way you tend to get a relatively stable and debugged product at a good price, rather than pay a high premium to be a beta tester.[/font]
[font color=\'#000000\']Computers yes! Cameras no! I bought my D60 shortly after it came out. I haven't even upgraded the firmware, on the basis, if it ain't broke don't fix it. I've had no problems at all with my D60, apart from very minor once-off hiccups which are not worth bothering persuing because they are 'once-off'.[/font]
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BJL
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« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2004, 01:31:45 PM »
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[font color=\'#000000\']Actually, there is a significant body of opinion that for computers at least, it is often best to buy a model at the moment that its succesor is anounced.[/font]
[font color=\'#000000\']I often do something like that with everything from computers and software to cars and digital cameras
a) find a product that best fits my requirements for performance and value for money
 wait a while, in case problems show up and in hope of discounts as the product ages or when a new one is approaching
c) if it still looks good, buy: it still meets my performance requirements, and is often even better value for money than before.[/font]
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BJL
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« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2004, 05:45:26 PM »
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[font color=\'#000000\']Here is another way I reassure myself in the face of the declining value of my digital equipment; camera, computer or whatever. I look at the value that I have got out it since I bought it. for example, I bought the the E-1 with 14-54 lens after one price reduction, but it now costs another US$300 less: have I got $300 of value from buying then rather than waiting for a further price reduction?

Definitely yes (almost in film costs alone, never mind it being so much nicer to work with than my relatively cheap 35mm SLR), so I am happy with my decision.[/font]
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boku
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« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2004, 07:56:53 AM »
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[font color=\'#000000\']I bought an EOS 10d for 1650 in the second week of august and I'm very disappointed to know that canon is going to introduce a new dslr without practically any forewarn. The italian Canon official site doesn't speek about the new camera at all.[/font]
[font color=\'#000000\']The release of the 20D has been rumored for months. Serious indications were all over the Internet by the end of July. Canon needs to sell off their stock of 10D. They had no reason to flag the demise until the inventory was sufficiently depleted.

But, most importantly, I had to deliver my 500th post. Thanks for giving me something to blab about.[/font]
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Bob Kulon

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mau970
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« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2004, 08:41:34 AM »
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[font color=\'#000000\']I agree with you that technology products are not good investments (like car also). My comment was on canon's commercial attitude and not on technological trends.[/font]
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61Dynamic
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« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2004, 11:19:59 PM »
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[font color=\'#000000\']
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I agree with you that technology products are not good investments (like car also). My comment was on canon's commercial attitude and not on technological trends.

Welcome to the world of computers. Well, actually any fast moving market actually. People were having the same "problems" with advancing gun technology in the wild-west. As soon as one desperado got a new bit of gun tech, suddenly all of the guns Law-enforcment and civilians had were obsolete.

Like BJL said, if Canon were to make an anouncement too soon it would hurt their sales of older models. The benefit you have here is that your 10D is not obsolete and you don't have to upgrade to the 20D to stay competetive.

Speaking of competition, Canon's sudden releases keeps Nikon and others on their toes and strengthens their market share.

There were plenty of rumors for some time about a replacement. Heck, the 300Ds capabilities should have shown you that a replacement for the 20D was comming. Who's going to pay an extra $500 for just a few extra features the 300D doesn't have? Only people who absolutly have to have them for buisness. And those are the people Canon needed to sell their supply of 10Ds to. Giving advanced notice about the 20D would've encouraged many to wait.[/font]
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hmuenx
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« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2004, 07:19:34 AM »
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[font color=\'#000000\']
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If a motor company decide to release a new model of a car, it advertize that event months earlier so that customers can decide to buy current version or wait for the new one or else to buy current version at a lower price.
This is not really what motor companies do. For example, Daimler-Chrysler (or back then probably just Daimler) had news leaking out about a new E series, which caused significant sales issues with the current series. Therefore, they often try to postpone information of customers to the latest time possible to assure as continues sales numbers as possible. (Well, they were a bit more open with the SLK, openly advertising for the 'last revision' of the old model. Which made sense because the old model was much prettier than the current one.)

BMW is probably experiencing the same with their 3 series, after pictures have been leaked of the new model to be sold in 2005.

(I have bought my 10D early this year and do definately not feel disappointed by the 20D coming out. With products quickly being developed such as digital cameras, you have to accept that they will be replaced by newer models at some point in time. The loss of value is the price, which you have to pay for using this technique.)[/font]
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Holger
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« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2004, 12:37:42 AM »
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[font color=\'#000000\']There were hints (or at least conjecture) to something like the 20D for quite some time, not the least of which was the fact that the 10D had been released almost a year and a half prior.

I started really looking about 6 months ago, and decided the 10D wasn't for me, and that I could wait.

You started looking a while back too, and decided the 10D was for you. That's great too. At least you can be happy that you've already had a month of use out of your camera. I'm still DSLR-less.[/font]
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