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Author Topic: Netbooks etc for tethering with MFDB  (Read 11817 times)
narikin
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« Reply #40 on: June 14, 2009, 03:56:48 PM »
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Quote from: mmurph
I wouldn't worry too much about Win XP OS vs. Leopard, etc.  We have 2 Mac laptops, 2 Windows XP laptops, and 3 Windows XP desktops. There **really** is not much difference at all when using the different machines.  

I have been using Mac's and PC's since 1990 and I have no preference for one over the other. They both work fine - kind of a Canon v. Nikon thing in my mind.  They are both good tools - just use them.

well said.
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jing q
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« Reply #41 on: June 15, 2009, 01:03:49 AM »
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Quote from: narikin
- there is a world of difference between a MBP type laptop, (Mac or PC) and a Netbook.
if there wasn't netbooks wouldn't have become the red-hot market phenomenon it has. I was a skeptic till I used one, now cant be bothered 80% of the time with the other uber-power machines I have sitting here, and at $300-$400 all in, whats not to like?
2nd generation on the way with SSD drives, newer processors, touch screens, and long battery lifes (12 hours?).

ps - if you really want it with OSX, it can be installed in a netbook ('Hackintosh') with excellent results - as many sites make clear.

now the question is: how do these netbooks perform with Phocus, Leaf Capture and C1? Phocus makes use of the GPU which of course is nonexistent on a netbook..(integrated)
If it's a firewire transfer I'm guessing that the transfer of the image from camera to computer itself will be ok but the rendering of the preview image will take pretty long?

Main interest is in the speed at which I can do a confirmation of focusing sharpness
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narikin
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« Reply #42 on: June 15, 2009, 07:35:36 AM »
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Quote from: jing q
now the question is: how do these netbooks perform with Phocus, Leaf Capture and C1? Phocus makes use of the GPU which of course is nonexistent on a netbook..(integrated)
If it's a firewire transfer I'm guessing that the transfer of the image from camera to computer itself will be ok but the rendering of the preview image will take pretty long?

Main interest is in the speed at which I can do a confirmation of focusing sharpness

read Michael article on using a UMPC if you want a fuller answer.

but clearly Netbooks etc are VERY low powered and not designed for big raw file crunching or ultra fast work.
you want that - you buy and use a bigger powerful machine.
you want lightness, simplicity and portability (to check focus/ live view/ stitch/ work tethered in the field, for example) you get one of these.

most buyer of Netbooks already have multiple computers - its an additional machine chosen for what it does, not a replacement for powerful desktop or laptop...
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jing q
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« Reply #43 on: June 15, 2009, 11:23:55 AM »
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Quote from: narikin
read Michael article on using a UMPC if you want a fuller answer.

but clearly Netbooks etc are VERY low powered and not designed for big raw file crunching or ultra fast work.
you want that - you buy and use a bigger powerful machine.
you want lightness, simplicity and portability (to check focus/ live view/ stitch/ work tethered in the field, for example) you get one of these.

most buyer of Netbooks already have multiple computers - its an additional machine chosen for what it does, not a replacement for powerful desktop or laptop...

I don't use C1, I'm surprised that an image takes 30 seconds to pop up on screen. Was just wondering how anyone else's experience with the other softwares are like.
Also wondering how the newer N280 Atoms are in comparison
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mmurph
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« Reply #44 on: June 15, 2009, 12:54:38 PM »
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Quote from: jing q
I don't use C1, I'm surprised that an image takes 30 seconds to pop up on screen.

On my Canon I shoot RAW + JPEG (Large, Medium, or Small JPEG.)  If your camera can create a RAW + JPEG at the same time, you could just check the JPEG, avoiding the overhead of the conversion of the RAW.

In the past, maybe 4-5 years ago, I used BreezeBrowser to sort and preview images. It had a pretty small footprint and fast performance working from the JPEG.  They also have a tethered camera control tool, but it is really for DSLR's only, mostly Canon and Nikon, as is their RAW conversion.

In the tethered tool, you had the option of storing images on the CF card, on the laptop, or both. I believe you also had the option of transferring only the JPEG to the laptop without the RAW.  

I'll load trial copies of those to test with my Canon for comparison with C1 and the Canon software.  That might give an idea of the relative range of options to look at in other manufacturers software.  (I will buy a MFDB again in September or October, once I start working again and open a new studio. Off work right now.)
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mmurph
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« Reply #45 on: June 15, 2009, 01:05:02 PM »
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Quote from: dougpetersonci
The question is whether to spend the money to get a better netbook with "less crappy performance".

Thanks Doug!  I appreciate your straight-up advice and recomendations, as always  

I wound up buying a refurb Acer AOA150 yesterday for $220.  It is 1Gb RAM, 160Gb hard drive, Atom N270.  I will add memory to the max of 1.5Gb and play with that for a while.

My son needed a new monitor for his copmputer, so I bought the netbbok instead and will give that to him to use in the fall (I'll let him use my laptop till then.)  In the fall I can buy myself a newer one with - hopefully - more power, it sounds like there are newer versions in the works.

In the meantime I can get hands on and test with the thing. It is so hard to get anywhere just reading all the specs online, makes my head swim after a while.      I am also going to help a friends daughter buy a laptop for college, so I can test that one too as a benchmark against the netbook.
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shutay
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« Reply #46 on: June 15, 2009, 06:03:27 PM »
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Quote from: jing q
...
If it's a firewire transfer I'm guessing that the transfer of the image from camera to computer itself will be ok but the rendering of the preview image will take pretty long?

Main interest is in the speed at which I can do a confirmation of focusing sharpness
That's correct. In terms of I/O transfer speed, Netbooks are similar to any computer that has SATA drives, DDR2-533 memory, which is really only a bit slower than most Core 2 Duos which typically have at least 800MHz Front Side Bus. So in terms of transferring data, I don't believe I saw any noticeable difference. When I mentioned 30 seconds, I was primarily referring to Exporting 3F files to TIFF or JPEG in FlexColor, by the way. At the time when I was trying it, I remember being reasonably impressed - as others have said, although it is slower (Intel indicates that an Atom CPU is theoretically about half the speed of an Intel Pentium M when clocked at the clock speed, so my 3x speed difference between a 2.4GHz C2D and the 1.6GHz Atom seems about right) - I was coming from using a 1.42GHz PowerPC Mac for years, which took almost 3 minutes to export each JPEG or TIFF, so for me, 30 seconds was amazingly fast and really impressive.

Quote from: jing q
I don't use C1, I'm surprised that an image takes 30 seconds to pop up on screen. Was just wondering how anyone else's experience with the other softwares are like.
Also wondering how the newer N280 Atoms are in comparison
The new N280 Atoms are only very very slightly faster - 1.66GHz versus 1.6GHz - so I don't expect to see any major difference. It also has a slightly faster system interface (FSB) running at 667MHz. Unfortunately, although I now still have a Nettop - Intel Atom N230 @ 1.6GHz, single core with HyperThreading, 1GB RAM - I have loaned it to a friend, but if I can get it back soon I'll run some tests again.  This time I'll add Sinar eXposure to the mix and see how it runs too.
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jing q
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« Reply #47 on: June 15, 2009, 09:14:50 PM »
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Quote from: shutay
That's correct. In terms of I/O transfer speed, Netbooks are similar to any computer that has SATA drives, DDR2-533 memory, which is really only a bit slower than most Core 2 Duos which typically have at least 800MHz Front Side Bus. So in terms of transferring data, I don't believe I saw any noticeable difference. When I mentioned 30 seconds, I was primarily referring to Exporting 3F files to TIFF or JPEG in FlexColor, by the way. At the time when I was trying it, I remember being reasonably impressed - as others have said, although it is slower (Intel indicates that an Atom CPU is theoretically about half the speed of an Intel Pentium M when clocked at the clock speed, so my 3x speed difference between a 2.4GHz C2D and the 1.6GHz Atom seems about right) - I was coming from using a 1.42GHz PowerPC Mac for years, which took almost 3 minutes to export each JPEG or TIFF, so for me, 30 seconds was amazingly fast and really impressive.


The new N280 Atoms are only very very slightly faster - 1.66GHz versus 1.6GHz - so I don't expect to see any major difference. It also has a slightly faster system interface (FSB) running at 667MHz. Unfortunately, although I now still have a Nettop - Intel Atom N230 @ 1.6GHz, single core with HyperThreading, 1GB RAM - I have loaned it to a friend, but if I can get it back soon I'll run some tests again.  This time I'll add Sinar eXposure to the mix and see how it runs too.

thanks for your very detailed answer.
the main problem I've had in the field is finding something handholdable that can do a quick focus check since I shoot people and they don't have 30 seconds to wait for me to check focus... As long as data transfer is reasonably fast than that's all I need: a big dumb hard drive with a screen that can do a decent enough focus check with the loupe tool

I'm going to look for that Gigabyte tablet netbook....I imagine just hanging the computer off the side of my tripod haha
cheers


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Ray R
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« Reply #48 on: June 16, 2009, 02:25:18 AM »
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I am still having trouble connecting my expresscard to the netbook. I have tried the expresscard on a laptop that I have (running Vista) and it works on that, but I cannot connect the camera back to it. The Firewire is working as I have connected a printer through it.
Is anyone able to offer any suggestions?
I have e-mailed the manufacturer/distrubutor of the netbook (same one as Michael has reviewed) in the UK and I am waiting for a reply.
I mainly want to use the netbook but would possibly want to use the laptop with the back, so any suggestions would be welcome.

The expresscard is a BestConnectivity with a Texas Instruments chipset.

Thanks


Ray R

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Ray R
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« Reply #49 on: June 16, 2009, 05:01:28 AM »
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Getting there - having spent some time on the internet, I found myself at

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927827

which required a registry edit.

The back now connects to my laptop - just need it to connect to the netbook.
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Phil Indeblanc
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« Reply #50 on: June 16, 2009, 01:27:06 PM »
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Does your Thinkpad have a full 6pin FW400 port or the reduced 4pin smaller version?  I have yet to see ANY PC based laptop with a FULL fw port.

I ended up getting a Firewire hub that has a  power adapter, and that is the way I use the back to a laptop....not very nice, so often I just plug it to the Mac desktop....I would like to get a PC mased laptop for tethering...but I need a powered(or enough) full 6pin FW port.  I have tried 2 PC laptops with the 4pin, and it forces you to slow down the C1 transfer rate and often getting black files, and slow processing. It looks like it sends the info in sections as it mentions as processing, it is sending some black layer etc.  

Bcooter,  Yes in many studio situations seeing your files on a large screen is critical.  I use the focus option most of the time while shooting, and on my Mac it takes a bit of time for the Focus screen in a reasonably large window to redraw the focus. It isn't that long, but it is 3-4 or so seconds.  Seeing it on a large screen you can relate the focus area to where it starts distorting inone view, as oppsed to a little screen to move around the image to see this.  It is also less straining on yourself when you are in a comfortable position/setup to do this repeatedly.  Aslo often your tech, or your assitant is going over the files and much better than having him or herbreathing down your head or interrupting flow or something.
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revaaron
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« Reply #51 on: July 11, 2009, 06:46:52 PM »
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I'm sorry to bring up this "old" issue... again, but I'm once again looking for/at this.  what a difference 4 weeks make in a life.... I was looking at lugging a 18.4" hp quadcore with me.  fastforward 2 weeks and the tickle in my knee turned out to be a pinched nerve.  So I'm trying to slim my 35-50lb bag.  I'm looking at carrying a netbook for reviewing.

1) I wish that they would bring a 340 (like the 330 PC vers 230 pc) so that you get 2 cores
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php...280+%40+1.66GHz
the n330 looks 2x as fast as the n280
2) have a built in CF card reader since 54e's all stick out of the laptop
3) better battery life (a possible 10.5hrs rocks)

looking around there are netbooks with 4GB of RAM. I think it was either sony of samsung. that would be awesome.
I wonder also if there will be a lite version of 64bit win7 for it.
and what do you think chrome will do for this field?
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Ray R
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« Reply #52 on: August 08, 2009, 04:40:05 PM »
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Just to let everyone know, I have failed to use my Kohjinsha - the same one as Michael used. It would not load the drivers for the ExpressCard, and the conclusion is that it is a faulty machine.
However, I am now in dispute with the company which provided it, who say the warranty does not cover replacement or refund, I have pointed out that I have returned it under The Sale of Goods Act (UK) and I am waiting for a response.

So all in all a very time consuming experiment, especially as the company I bought it from appears to be the only one to supply this laptop and I now have an Expresscard to firewire for which I have no use.
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