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Author Topic: Good news. 13" Macbook gets FW800 and a new name, MacBook Pro.  (Read 6035 times)
GregW
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« on: June 08, 2009, 12:19:23 PM »
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Combined with a bigger gamut display, the new built in long life battery, lower prices and better specs I think this is great news for those who don't want the bulk of a 15" laptop. The only bad news is that the glossy display stays.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2009, 12:25:21 PM by GregW » Logged
jjj
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« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2009, 09:46:25 PM »
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Quote from: GregW
Combined with a bigger gamut display, the new built in long life battery, lower prices and better specs I think this is great news for those who don't want the bulk of a 15" laptop. The only bad news is that the glossy display stays.
If it had a anti-glare screen I would have liked one. Annoyingly I just bought a 17" only for Apple to upgrade and reduce price unusually soon after new model came out, plus I find it way too big and clumsy compared to my 13".
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jing q
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« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2009, 08:09:56 AM »
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this way you can buy a new Mac, exactly like apple wants you to.
I don't understand having a 9400 nvidia on a mbp though.
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lightstand
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« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2009, 08:25:03 PM »
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after seeing both the anti glare & glossy screens in the mac store I have no idea how anyone could even think of buying a glossy screen for photography or not.  It would be nice if Apple went after the graphics people who bought their computers in the eighties.  I just don't understand why even have the glossy screen!?!
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Gemmtech
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« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2009, 01:03:41 PM »
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Quote from: lightstand
after seeing both the anti glare & glossy screens in the mac store I have no idea how anyone could even think of buying a glossy screen for photography or not.  It would be nice if Apple went after the graphics people who bought their computers in the eighties.  I just don't understand why even have the glossy screen!?!

All my screens are gloss and there's a reason, the colors are more accurate with gloss than with matte screens which have a coating on them.  Once you use a gloss screen for a week or so you get acclimated.  Even my LCD TV is gloss and it's not a problem in a dark room which I can have with room darkening blinds.  Apple is going after their market and they know that market very well.  Apple realizes most people (Yes even photographers) prefer the glossy screens while still acknowledging the niche market for the matte screen.  

Read what you wrote and see if you don't understand why it's irrelevant to what people want in their homes/offices.
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jing q
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« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2009, 01:11:41 PM »
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Quote from: Gemmtech
All my screens are gloss and there's a reason, the colors are more accurate with gloss than with matte screens which have a coating on them.  Once you use a gloss screen for a week or so you get acclimated.  Even my LCD TV is gloss and it's not a problem in a dark room which I can have with room darkening blinds.  Apple is going after their market and they know that market very well.  Apple realizes most people (Yes even photographers) prefer the glossy screens while still acknowledging the niche market for the matte screen.  

Read what you wrote and see if you don't understand why it's irrelevant to what people want in their homes/offices.

Mac is going after a bigger consumer market now.

I work in the field all the time and a gloss screen is a big problem. I don't know what you mean by glss screens being more accurate because my pro-grade NEC 26" screen in the studio is matte.

also, seriously, a 9400m?
some of the graphics programs use the GPU and don't all video programs use the GPU?

I guess graphic designers will still do fine with it.
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jjj
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« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2009, 05:22:48 AM »
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All my screens are gloss and there's a reason, the colors are more accurate with gloss than with matte screens which have a coating on them.  Once you use a gloss screen for a week or so you get acclimated.  Even my LCD TV is gloss and it's not a problem in a dark room which I can have with room darkening blinds.  Apple is going after their market and they know that market very well.  Apple realizes most people (Yes even photographers) prefer the glossy screens while still acknowledging the niche market for the matte screen.  

Read what you wrote and see if you don't understand why it's irrelevant to what people want in their homes/offices.
Seeing as a major use of laptops is away from home and nice dark offices, which are not nice to work in BTW.
Funny how gloss screens are never used by the top monitor manufacturers for high end kit if they are so superior.
I've had a gloss screen on a laptop for years and it annoys me more, not less with time and it's not even as glossy as the Mac glare screens
« Last Edit: June 11, 2009, 05:23:53 AM by jjj » Logged

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Wayne Fox
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« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2009, 05:04:49 PM »
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Quote from: Gemmtech
All my screens are gloss and there's a reason, the colors are more accurate with gloss than with matte screens which have a coating on them.  Once you use a gloss screen for a week or so you get acclimated.  Even my LCD TV is gloss and it's not a problem in a dark room which I can have with room darkening blinds.  Apple is going after their market and they know that market very well.  Apple realizes most people (Yes even photographers) prefer the glossy screens while still ackn

I agree ... switched to gloss screen 3 MacBook Pros ago, and wont' ever buy a non-gloss one again.

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Gemmtech
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« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2009, 07:36:12 AM »
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Quote from: jjj
Seeing as a major use of laptops is away from home and nice dark offices, which are not nice to work in BTW.
Funny how gloss screens are never used by the top monitor manufacturers for high end kit if they are so superior.
I've had a gloss screen on a laptop for years and it annoys me more, not less with time and it's not even as glossy as the Mac glare screens


Well, #1, CRT were always used in the high-end and as LCD became better and better they started to switch to those, however that doesn't mean that LCD are better than CRT,
they actually aren't.  I don't know what every LCD manufacturer is using, but IMHO gloss screens produce better color accuracy and I believe you can train the brain to not notice the
reflections (it took me about a month).  All the manufacturers need to do is created no-reflecting gloss screens, like the smudge-proof high-gloss appliances.  Try to train your brain to
not notice the reflections, I'm telling you it can be done, many people do it.  You just have to train the brain to look at what you want to see and block everything else out of the image.


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jing q
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« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2009, 10:50:07 AM »
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Quote from: Gemmtech
Well, #1, CRT were always used in the high-end and as LCD became better and better they started to switch to those, however that doesn't mean that LCD are better than CRT,
they actually aren't.  I don't know what every LCD manufacturer is using, but IMHO gloss screens produce better color accuracy and I believe you can train the brain to not notice the
reflections (it took me about a month).  All the manufacturers need to do is created no-reflecting gloss screens, like the smudge-proof high-gloss appliances.  Try to train your brain to
not notice the reflections, I'm telling you it can be done, many people do it.  You just have to train the brain to look at what you want to see and block everything else out of the image.

how about just having a matte screen instead of learning jedi mindtricks?
 
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Gemmtech
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« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2009, 12:17:26 PM »
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Quote from: jing q
how about just having a matte screen instead of learning jedi mindtricks?
 


Or develop a matte screen that has as good color accuracy / saturation as a gloss screen.  I've used them both and there's no doubt it takes mind control
to use the gloss screens, YMMV

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jing q
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« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2009, 11:19:29 PM »
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Quote from: Gemmtech
Or develop a matte screen that has as good color accuracy / saturation as a gloss screen.  I've used them both and there's no doubt it takes mind control
to use the gloss screens, YMMV

So how does Eizo/NEC get good colour accuracy on matte screens on their high end monitors?
I swear it's a conspiracy..
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Gemmtech
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« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2009, 11:31:16 PM »
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Quote from: jing q
So how does Eizo/NEC get good colour accuracy on matte screens on their high end monitors?
I swear it's a conspiracy..


Define "Good"?

Do you mean not nearly as good as a IBM T221?  Do you mean not nearly as good as a good CRT?  I doubt you've ever seen a high-end monitor, because if you did you wouldn't
name NEC or Eizo.  Best analogy, some people think a Cadillac is high-end.  Some people become confused and believe that if Manufacture X isn't doing it then it's not as good.
Why did Pioneer decide to quit making Plasma TV?  "Everybody" Claims Pioneer Elite Kuro is high-end until they see my Runco Plasma.  

I guess next you will tell me that tv / monitor manufacturers make LCDs because that is the best technology for color reproduction?  Do some research and then come back and we\
can have a discussion.
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jing q
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« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2009, 01:28:58 PM »
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Quote from: Gemmtech
Define "Good"?

Do you mean not nearly as good as a IBM T221?  Do you mean not nearly as good as a good CRT?  I doubt you've ever seen a high-end monitor, because if you did you wouldn't
name NEC or Eizo.  Best analogy, some people think a Cadillac is high-end.  Some people become confused and believe that if Manufacture X isn't doing it then it's not as good.
Why did Pioneer decide to quit making Plasma TV?  "Everybody" Claims Pioneer Elite Kuro is high-end until they see my Runco Plasma.  

I guess next you will tell me that tv / monitor manufacturers make LCDs because that is the best technology for color reproduction?  Do some research and then come back and we\
can have a discussion.

yes I doubt I've ever seen a high end monitor because after all we use shitty self-calibrating NEC monitors for colour correcting colour critical advertising work.
I have no clue what your background in photography is but many people in the photo industry actually use Eizos to colour correct and edit their photos.
Yes I have done my research. There are matte screens that are more colour accurate than gloss screens. I happen to use them everyday.
The time spent on your analogies could be better used somewhere else.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2009, 01:30:07 PM by jing q » Logged
Gemmtech
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« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2009, 07:54:22 PM »
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Quote from: jing q
yes I doubt I've ever seen a high end monitor because after all we use shitty self-calibrating NEC monitors for colour correcting colour critical advertising work.
I have no clue what your background in photography is but many people in the photo industry actually use Eizos to colour correct and edit their photos.
Yes I have done my research. There are matte screens that are more colour accurate than gloss screens. I happen to use them everyday.
The time spent on your analogies could be better used somewhere else.

Have you ever heard the saying "Ignorance is Bliss"?  As long as you are happy with the products that you are using, that's all that matters.  I know people very happy with
owning a Ford Mustang, they think it's the fastest car in the world.  Hey, if you use them everyday they must be the "best" or is it that they are "Good Enough" for you?
"There are matte screens with better color accuracy than gloss screens"  WOW, what a revelation, but does that statement mean anything?  Is it pertinent to this conversation?
I suppose you will agree that there are gloss screens with better color accuracy than matte screens?  These types of puerile discussions bore me.  As I stated above, the only
thing that matters is if you are happy with what you own.  If you get the results that you want with the equipment you use then you don't need to change or learn anymore.  

Oh the Free Thinker..............................................
« Last Edit: June 17, 2009, 09:33:21 PM by Gemmtech » Logged
Jim Pascoe
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« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2009, 02:36:32 AM »
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Anyway.

It seems there is some discussion to be had regarding the pros/cons of glossy screens.  Personally I am quite happy with the 30" Apple Cinema display matte screen connected to my 17" Macbook Pro also with a matte screen.  I can believe that one would soon get used to the reflections on a gloss screen though.  'Ignorance is Bliss' should not be underated.  The only way most of us get through life is to be blissfully unaware of what we are missing.  This could apply to monitors, cars, heated swimming pools, and even women!  The alternative is a life of envy and regret (unless you are stinking rich).  Just be happy with what you have.  

Surely the point is, would you really be doing colour correcting high end work on a 13" screen anyway?  While it is great having a portable machine, would it not spend a chunk of it's life hooked up to a larger monitor?  I do sit on the sofa with my 17" laptop sorting pictures and keywording etc.  But I cannot imagine doing important work unless hooked up to a bigger monitor.
Plus the 17" Macbook Pro gets hot enough to cook chestnuts on your lap!

Jim
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jing q
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« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2009, 06:05:09 AM »
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Quote from: Gemmtech
Have you ever heard the saying "Ignorance is Bliss"?  As long as you are happy with the products that you are using, that's all that matters.  I know people very happy with
owning a Ford Mustang, they think it's the fastest car in the world.  Hey, if you use them everyday they must be the "best" or is it that they are "Good Enough" for you?
"There are matte screens with better color accuracy than gloss screens"  WOW, what a revelation, but does that statement mean anything?  Is it pertinent to this conversation?
I suppose you will agree that there are gloss screens with better color accuracy than matte screens?  These types of puerile discussions bore me.  As I stated above, the only
thing that matters is if you are happy with what you own.  If you get the results that you want with the equipment you use then you don't need to change or learn anymore.  

Oh the Free Thinker..............................................

The question here is : For a photographer, the gloss screen can be a big problem beyond problems of color gamut. the issue here is usability and to "train the brain" to "block everything else out of the image" is a pretty stupid thing.
Given the choice between a laptop screen they can see and a screen that they need to "train the brain" for, I can bet you the former is much more attractive.

Yes the statement "There are matte screens with better color accuracy than gloss screens" means alot in this discussion, it means that for a photographer who works with a laptop, matte screens are a viable option.
It also means that your argument that glossy screens are superior to matte screens is a generalisation, which means that GOOD MATTE SCREENS THAT PHOTOGRAPHERS CAN USE are possible.
And also, it's not as laptop manufacturers are using the best glossy screens in their laptops so please, let's keep the dick-comparing of who knows more than the other out of the picture.
 
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jing q
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« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2009, 06:09:55 AM »
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Quote from: Gemmtech
All my screens are gloss and there's a reason, the colors are more accurate with gloss than with matte screens which have a coating on them.


btw just in case we lose sight of what the both of us were talking about.thought i'd quote you.
So can I repeat, "There are matte screens with better color accuracy than gloss screens"
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Gemmtech
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« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2009, 08:55:48 AM »
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Quote from: jing q
btw just in case we lose sight of what the both of us were talking about.thought i'd quote you.
So can I repeat, "There are matte screens with better color accuracy than gloss screens"

I assume that reading comprehension wasn't one of your strong points?  Let me make it clearer to you (I don't want to gloss over this point   ), there are matte screens that have better color accuracy then some gloss screens comparing screen A with screen B, however if we are comparing Screen A Matte with Screen A Gloss, the gloss screen will have better accuracy.  I also stated that the monitors that you list are NOT what I would consider "High-End" just as I don't consider a $5,000.00 Plasma or LCD TV high-end, nor do I consider most Mercedes Benz "High-End"  And as I have stated, "Ignorance is Bliss" if you are happy with what you are using, that's all that matters.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2009, 08:57:14 AM by Gemmtech » Logged
Gemmtech
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« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2009, 09:02:06 AM »
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Quote from: jing q
The question here is : For a photographer, the gloss screen can be a big problem beyond problems of color gamut. the issue here is usability and to "train the brain" to "block everything else out of the image" is a pretty stupid thing.
Given the choice between a laptop screen they can see and a screen that they need to "train the brain" for, I can bet you the former is much more attractive.

Yes the statement "There are matte screens with better color accuracy than gloss screens" means alot in this discussion, it means that for a photographer who works with a laptop, matte screens are a viable option.
It also means that your argument that glossy screens are superior to matte screens is a generalisation, which means that GOOD MATTE SCREENS THAT PHOTOGRAPHERS CAN USE are possible.
And also, it's not as laptop manufacturers are using the best glossy screens in their laptops so please, let's keep the dick-comparing of who knows more than the other out of the picture.
 

I've read some pretty idiotic statements before, this is definitely at the top.  Of course any "photographer" can be happy with any type of screen, as I stated "Ignorance is Bliss" as stated above most probably aren't doing their critical work on a laptop anyhow, I'd agree with that statement.  However you stating that training the brain is stupid, well let's just say I'll consider the source of that statement.  I know training the brain for anything is difficult for some people, but for others it's enjoyable.  Good luck to you and please use whatever makes you happy.

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