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Author Topic: New Mac OS coming  (Read 7571 times)
gss
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« Reply #20 on: June 09, 2009, 11:17:23 AM »
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Quote from: narikin
Nonsense. This is virtually the equivalent of a Service Pack upgrade which for MS is FREE. can't get a lot cheaper than that.
in fact typical of Apple to charge us for them fixing their problems in Leopard, and everyone applauding them for it - amazing!


indeed. please everyone don't believe the hype on either side of this stuff or be put of by some "bad machine your boss owns"
there are extremely fast stable PC's that work incredibly well at great prices, (ask 99% of scientists) just as there are Mac's that are buggy and break.
choose your platform with your head and wallet, and not as a lifestyle accessory.

Please don't troll.
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #21 on: June 09, 2009, 11:30:23 AM »
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Quote from: narikin
Nonsense. This is virtually the equivalent of a Service Pack upgrade which for MS is FREE. can't get a lot cheaper than that.
in fact typical of Apple to charge us for them fixing their problems in Leopard, and everyone applauding them for it - amazing!

Generally windows Service Packs don't include
 - decreasing the footprint of the operating system by roughly half
 - across the board 64 bit support (in ONE version rather than having six+ versions of the OS, some 64 and some 32)
 - rewriting the main navigation mechanism (the "Finder" - equiv. of the "Windows Explorer") in a new programming language
 - adding graphics-card based acceleration frameworks
 - adding easy-to-implement multi-core friendly threading

This may be a mostly "under the hood" improvement, but it is far more than a "service pack".

That said, most users aren't going to bum-rush the Apple-Store to pay the usual $129 for an "under the hood improvement". It greatly behooves Apple to have as many of the installed base zipping along with a faster/more-stable OS (obviously just repeating talking points here; we'll see if either of those turns out to be the case). So they make the price so attractive as to be an after-thought for most users.

As to something more up my area of expertise: Capture One will be tested and made to fly with Snow Leopard, but all the usual advice about changing ANYTHING on your production machine applies.
1) Don't upgrade right away, but wait for reports from people like me who are willing-guinea pigs-for-the-cause and who get meaningful reports (including verifying the source of the problems rather than just saying "it doesn't work") from dozens of techs/photographers/companies.
2) Don't upgrade unless you are after a specific new feature/improvement or a fix for a bug that you care about. In other words don't upgrade just for the thrill of it.
3) Test your "new setup" thoroughly in simulations of your actual usage before ever using it on a professional job.
4) Make a complete bootable backup (which you should have of your good setup anyway) using SuperDuper or CarbonCopy so that if you get FUBAR you can return to your known-good setup with virtually no effort.
5) Report your findings to the community so we can all benefit

Also, OS upgrades (meaning you install the new OS "over" the previous one) are a joke IMO for critical production work. Only ever format and install the OS clean. I wonder how that will work this time around since the $29 price is specifically an "upgrade" to "Leopard Users"

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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« Reply #22 on: June 09, 2009, 12:15:33 PM »
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Doug this is my biggest issue with my MBP going from a MacPro. Even though running Raid O with SSD drives and 8 gbs of ram pushing my P30+ files is still slow compared to my old MacPro and for obvious reasons only Dual core. My hope is snow leopard will offset some of this and maybe Phase can design C1 more for the added features of Snow leopard like Open GL and things like that instead of being very core dependent. Not like i am stuck in the mud or anything , I'm just a speed freak on processing. Just want Phase to think laptop user as well
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froesner
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« Reply #23 on: June 09, 2009, 02:01:08 PM »
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Quote from: narikin
Nonsense. This is virtually the equivalent of a Service Pack upgrade which for MS is FREE. can't get a lot cheaper than that.
in fact typical of Apple to charge us for them fixing their problems in Leopard, and everyone applauding them for it - amazing!
indeed. please everyone don't believe the hype on either side of this stuff or be put of by some "bad machine your boss owns"
there are extremely fast stable PC's that work incredibly well at great prices, (ask 99% of scientists) just as there are Mac's that are buggy and break.
choose your platform with your head and wallet, and not as a lifestyle accessory.

Notwithstanding the fact that at least in my experience it is a rational decision to invest in apple I would like to ask you wether you extend your above mentioned philosophy to all areas of your life?
Underwear (Calvin versus no brand grand-pa's), Cars, Phone, Food, Airline ... or is it just because you once made a mistake and now you cover up the resulting frustration?

No offense

/Frank
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peegeenyc
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« Reply #24 on: June 09, 2009, 04:55:21 PM »
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Quote from: froesner
Notwithstanding the fact that at least in my experience it is a rational decision to invest in apple I would like to ask you wether you extend your above mentioned philosophy to all areas of your life?
Underwear (Calvin versus no brand grand-pa's), Cars, Phone, Food, Airline ... or is it just because you once made a mistake and now you cover up the resulting frustration?

No offense

/Frank
Frank, I'd say that is somewhat personal ('underwear'?) and offensive ('you once made a mistake'?).  calm down.

Narikin's suggestion that you choose professional tools with your head and wallet rather than as a lifestyle accessory is fair, and isn't specifically directed at Apple imho, - it might include 'Vivienne Tam' edition red netbooks, or piano black Dell's, or gaming machines with transparent Lucite cases and glowing LED lights... it just means what it says, so dont be too sensitive.

I've worked on both platforms for years, and see assets in both. right now my favored machine is a Vista 64 workstation with 32Gb of Ram and the same processors as the mac next door to it. with Vista 64 and full 64bit PS4 it can access all (well nearly all...)  of the RAM for big stitch files from my Phase back. no scratch disk, ever, so its super fast. It works better for those that than the Mac Pro sitting next to it, but of course YMMV. Vista works just great for many people on this forum, and certainly doesn't deserve the odure heaped on it by Apple, (it actually makes me disrespect them as a company a little, for being so silly). But, I own and use their products and the whole world is better for Apple and what they do, and how they challenge the market. So what makes it great we have both choices, and more, with the rise of Linux.
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gss
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« Reply #25 on: June 09, 2009, 08:16:34 PM »
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Quote from: peegeenyc
Narikin's suggestion that you choose professional tools with your head and wallet rather than as a lifestyle accessory is fair...
It was pure troll, meant to antagonize with absurd claims.  Unfortunately one responded in kind, though not nearly as mean-spiritedly as Narikin.  Labeling it "fair" is ridiculous.

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froesner
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« Reply #26 on: June 10, 2009, 02:27:48 AM »
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Quote from: gss
It was pure troll, meant to antagonize with absurd claims.  Unfortunately one responded in kind, though not nearly as mean-spiritedly as Narikin.  Labeling it "fair" is ridiculous.

peegeenyc & gss

my response was not meant to be offensive, but you are right I responded "in kind"

fair enough, my mistake

Frank

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Guy Mancuso
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« Reply #27 on: June 10, 2009, 08:19:40 AM »
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Here is where the rubber may hit the road and if C1 can take advantage of this and all the Raw processors than maybe just maybe us MBP users won't feel the  dual core as a disadvantage over the MacPro when we process files that the software is more core dependent. There is some hope here

From Macrumors :Snow leopard

Meanwhile, Apple also details which GPUs will be supported for their upcoming OpenCL API. OpenCL will allow developers to easily offload additional processing tasks to the computer's GPU. Some tasks may find greater benefit from this than others, but could potentially offer substantial performance boosts. The list of supported GPUs include:

- NVIDIA Geforce 8600M GT, GeForce 8800 GT, GeForce 8800 GTS, Geforce 9400M, GeForce 9600M GT, GeForce GT 120, GeForce GT 130.
- ATI Radeon 4850, Radeon 4870

In one specific example, one company found a 5-fold increase in video encoding when using OpenCL-like technology on the PC.
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Mort54
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« Reply #28 on: June 10, 2009, 12:00:52 PM »
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Quote from: narikin
Nonsense. This is virtually the equivalent of a Service Pack upgrade which for MS is FREE. can't get a lot cheaper than that.
in fact typical of Apple to charge us for them fixing their problems in Leopard, and everyone applauding them for it - amazing!
A classic case of the pot calling the kettle black. Windows 7 is a pure out and out warmed over and renamed Vista. And MS has priced it very high. Apple has consistently said this was more of a Leopard tweek than a totally new OS release. Nonetheless, they're adding in lots of goodies, so $29 seems like a steal. Windows 7, Vista, whatever, seems more like a dud.

Hey, just throwing gasoline on the fire - all in good fun :-)
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« Reply #29 on: June 10, 2009, 06:59:02 PM »
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I still have nightmares with windows. I would't go back to windows even though mac hardware is a little..., lets be polite, flimsy, especially their macbooks glossy screens.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2009, 06:59:27 PM by sergio » Logged

evgeny
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« Reply #30 on: June 10, 2009, 10:15:34 PM »
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I run dual-boot Leopard 10.5.7 and Fedora 10 Linux on my white Macbook 13" 2.4GHz/4Gb and Leopard 10.5.7 on the newest MacMini 2.26GHz/4Gb/7200rpm (what a power in small box!!!). These computers serve all my needs. I occasionally use a Linux tower PC with Dual Core 2 as a TBs file server, will never buy PC again.
I will upgrade to new MacOS when it is available, the price of upgrade is a bargain.

I'm very exited about newest Macbook Pro 13" 2.53GHz, which allows 8Gb of memory, that's fantastic power in small box! I need more for CS4.  
I remember a 16 MB (!) was a lot of RAM in 1992!!!

Edit: I don't use Windows since 2000
« Last Edit: June 10, 2009, 10:42:52 PM by evgeny » Logged
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« Reply #31 on: June 10, 2009, 11:34:21 PM »
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Quote from: free1000
Its possible.

You may be surprised to hear this, but it could be the processors,  or other chips on the mainboard.
No. I suspect it in fact. Tin whiskers is one possibility
 
Quote
Memory is the obvious one and is usually checked first, I assume that the geniuses tested the memory boards?
No, they simply put them in wrong slots! Then suggested I get more memory, when I returned with oddly enough memory issues. Which I did only to discover the memory problems were due to their incorrect placement of modules.
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« Reply #32 on: June 10, 2009, 11:36:39 PM »
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Quote from: gss
Please don't troll.
And don't be a fanboi would be my response you your defensive posting.
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« Reply #33 on: June 11, 2009, 02:11:19 AM »
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Hello,

This article was in the New Zealand Hearld

http://blogs.nzherald.co.nz/blog/mac-plane...gs-wwdc/?c_id=5

Cheers

Simon
« Last Edit: June 11, 2009, 02:20:38 AM by HarperPhotos » Logged

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gss
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« Reply #34 on: June 11, 2009, 08:33:45 AM »
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Quote from: jjj
And don't be a fanboi would be my response you your defensive posting.
Yes, I suppose, in your eyes, "Please don't troll" is a rant worthy of the most rabid fanboi.
Please take your trolling to another site.

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ziocan
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« Reply #35 on: June 11, 2009, 10:28:14 AM »
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Quote from: jjj
No. I suspect it in fact. Tin whiskers is one possibility
 
 No, they simply put them in wrong slots! Then suggested I get more memory, when I returned with oddly enough memory issues. Which I did only to discover the memory problems were due to their incorrect placement of modules.
sure they put the modules in the toaster slots....  
There is only one way to slot in memory modules. it is not possible to place memory modules incorrectly.
You have been stating a series of total BS and is about time to stop.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2009, 10:44:17 AM by ziocan » Logged
peegeenyc
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« Reply #36 on: June 11, 2009, 10:42:48 AM »
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Quote from: gss
Yes, I suppose, in your eyes, "Please don't troll" is a rant worthy of the most rabid fanboi.
Please take your trolling to another site.
this is tiresome.

out of interest I went back over my past 10 years of spending for upgrades on both platforms (Mac and PC) and find I spent almost 3 times as much on Apple OS upgrades in that time, than I did on PC. Snow Leopard will be the 7th iteration of OS X in 9 years! Windows has gone XP>Vista in that time and that's it.  (till 7 comes later this year)

Now you can view that as a product of Apple working hard at upgrades, and keeping everything 'on the boil' or not. Choose your interpretation. But... at a not inconsiderable price per upgrade, you can't say that its a cheap club to stay a member of. There is a definite Annual Fee to be part of the latest and greatest OS X club, that doesn't exist in any other OS business model. Windows has taken less money out of my wallet to remain current than Apple, and I'm on a full native 64bit platform already.

It is clearl that Apple chooses to break its OS progress up into many releases and charge users a (near annual) fee for that. Windows does one major upgrade every 4-5 years (with free Service Packs between) but splits its family up into 'home' 'business' 'ultimate' versions according to its vast install base needs. both are business models, plain and simple. choose your poison.

Like I say I have both and use both, so no prejudice here - but Apple is sure not cheap. You may have a thousand other excellent reasons to prefer OS X, but pointing out that price is not the best of reasons, does not make anyone a Troll.

Please all, lets keep it civilised.
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peegeenyc
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« Reply #37 on: June 11, 2009, 10:47:38 AM »
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Quote from: ziocan
sure they put the modules in the toaster slots....  
There is only one way to slot in memory modules. it is not possible to place memory modules incorrectly.
You have been stating a series of total BS and is about time to stop.
paired memory modules need to be matched in the correct slots, especially if they are different brands/ capacities,  if not, there are problems.
I suspect that is what he means.
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gss
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« Reply #38 on: June 11, 2009, 11:10:10 AM »
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Quote from: peegeenyc
this is tiresome.

out of interest I went back over my past 10 years of spending for upgrades on both platforms (Mac and PC) and find I spent almost 3 times as much on Apple OS upgrades in that time, than I did on PC. Snow Leopard will be the 7th iteration of OS X in 9 years! Windows has gone XP>Vista in that time and that's it.  (till 7 comes later this year)

Now you can view that as a product of Apple working hard at upgrades, and keeping everything 'on the boil' or not. Choose your interpretation. But... at a not inconsiderable price per upgrade, you can't say that its a cheap club to stay a member of. There is a definite Annual Fee to be part of the latest and greatest OS X club, that doesn't exist in any other OS business model. Windows has taken less money out of my wallet to remain current than Apple, and I'm on a full native 64bit platform already.

It is clearl that Apple chooses to break its OS progress up into many releases and charge users a (near annual) fee for that. Windows does one major upgrade every 4-5 years (with free Service Packs between) but splits its family up into 'home' 'business' 'ultimate' versions according to its vast install base needs. both are business models, plain and simple. choose your poison.

Like I say I have both and use both, so no prejudice here - but Apple is sure not cheap. You may have a thousand other excellent reasons to prefer OS X, but pointing out that price is not the best of reasons, does not make anyone a Troll.

Please all, lets keep it civilised.

Had it simply been an issue of price, I would not have called it a troll, though it would still qualify as this was simply an informational thread about the availability of the new Mac OS.  Then the response may have been simply, "You forgot to include the costs of your downtime due to viruses, costs of protection, etc...  You may find that your total cost of ownership is higher with a PC than with a Mac."
However, that was not the case, and the posts were indeed trolls (note the unproven and absurd claim about scientists).
So a simple request that this forum be kept clean of trolling has netted me a charge of being a fanboi and being uncivilized.  Remarkable.

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jjj
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« Reply #39 on: June 11, 2009, 12:55:43 PM »
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Quote from: gss
Yes, I suppose, in your eyes, "Please don't troll" is a rant worthy of the most rabid fanboi.
Please take your trolling to another site.
Being open minded to the fact that Apple is not perfect or PCs are not the Devil's spawn is not trolling. It's just a different opinion and an perfectly valid one. Accusing someone of trolling for that is fanboi-ism.
And very childish, as is accusing me of also trolling for not agreeing with your behaviour.
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