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Author Topic: Olympus digital Pen E-P1  (Read 23469 times)
DarkPenguin
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« on: June 16, 2009, 06:58:51 PM »
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What?  No E-P1 discussion?

Preview with samples ...

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0906/09061601olympusep1.asp

I want one.  I want that 17mm lens even more.  (Even if it does look like it has more than a little CA.)  Curious how the external finder works with a relatively slow focusing device.  (Although I'm not sure just how slow focusing it is.)
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2009, 07:19:08 PM »
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Sounds like a very interesting entry indeed. At 406 gr the E-P1 + 17mm combo might be the pefect replacement for the Canon G10 my wife is now using. The price is a bit steep though... might need to wait a few months until it goes down 30% or so.

The camera and new lenses will be availbale in Tokyo on July 3rd.

Cheers,
Bernard
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A few images online here!
DarkPenguin
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« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2009, 10:30:48 PM »
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Yeah, I'm looking to replace the G9.  I have a Panny G1 so I have some additional lenses for this thing now.  The E-P1 (crappy name) with 17 would do some nice things for me around town.
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stever
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« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2009, 11:17:21 PM »
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perhaps the G10 replacement is an appropriate target for the EP-1.  i had hoped for a bit more.  the lack of EVF and likely slow autofocus (combined with no practical way to manual focus except zone) are probably deal killers for me.  i would have preferred they left out the medium res lcd in favor of a really good EVF - or even provided a hot-shoe EVF option.

a step in the right direction, but not as big a step as i had hoped.  i still believe there is a market for a serious compact camera.
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situgrrl
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« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2009, 07:22:26 AM »
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Oh for some money!  The real question for me though is which colour?  I like thw white but I'm worried the novelty may wear thin.
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250swb
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« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2009, 10:01:12 AM »
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Quote from: stever
perhaps the G10 replacement is an appropriate target for the EP-1.  i had hoped for a bit more.  the lack of EVF and likely slow autofocus (combined with no practical way to manual focus except zone) are probably deal killers for me.  i would have preferred they left out the medium res lcd in favor of a really good EVF - or even provided a hot-shoe EVF option.

a step in the right direction, but not as big a step as i had hoped.  i still believe there is a market for a serious compact camera.

As the DPR preview says, the AF speed is slow because they haven't got the final firmware. It should be no slower than the same contrast detect AF of the Panasonic G1, which is lightning quick. As for MF, you would do it with the focus ring, and you can also call up a magnified image to help with critical work.

Steve
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dalethorn
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« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2009, 03:32:51 PM »
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The lightning-quick autofocus of the Pana G1 is only so when it gets focus, and only half the time then, which requires good light in any case.  I read the reviews, and think it's way overrated.  Based on the specs and preliminary tests of the Olympus, I'd suggest buyers consider that manual focus may be required a lot more often than what the reviewers are saying.
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DarkPenguin
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« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2009, 03:57:23 PM »
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Quote from: 250swb
As the DPR preview says, the AF speed is slow because they haven't got the final firmware. It should be no slower than the same contrast detect AF of the Panasonic G1, which is lightning quick. As for MF, you would do it with the focus ring, and you can also call up a magnified image to help with critical work.

Steve

Do they actually know that the firmware will speed things up in any meaningful way?

My understanding is that the panasonic lenses on the E-P1 are quick to focus.  Not so much the Oly ones.
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Plekto
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« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2009, 06:38:16 PM »
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See?     I did mention a week or so ago that this mini-DSLR segment was going to be the hottest thing...

It looks like it might be a great digital rangefinder alternative.  Maybe give the M8 a bit of competition as well.
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terence_patrick
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« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2009, 01:03:30 AM »
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They should've just made it a rangefinder, period, and skip autofocus all together.
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250swb
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« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2009, 02:20:45 AM »
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Quote from: dalethorn
The lightning-quick autofocus of the Pana G1 is only so when it gets focus, and only half the time then, which requires good light in any case.  I read the reviews, and think it's way overrated.  Based on the specs and preliminary tests of the Olympus, I'd suggest buyers consider that manual focus may be required a lot more often than what the reviewers are saying.

I've not had this problem with my G1, it misses focus every now and again like any AF system, but not half the time. I use daylight mostly, often coming in through windows.

Steve
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2009, 02:49:40 AM »
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Hi,

I have two issues:

1) It seems that the sensor is exposed during changing of lenses. In a DSLR the sensor is normally protected by both shutter and mirror. Does sensor cleaning protect against water droplets?
2) An electronic viewfinder would be nice and much more useful in many circumstances than an auxiliary viewfinder.

Best regards
Erik


Quote from: DarkPenguin
What?  No E-P1 discussion?

Preview with samples ...

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0906/09061601olympusep1.asp

I want one.  I want that 17mm lens even more.  (Even if it does look like it has more than a little CA.)  Curious how the external finder works with a relatively slow focusing device.  (Although I'm not sure just how slow focusing it is.)
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dalethorn
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« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2009, 05:24:53 AM »
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Quote from: 250swb
I've not had this problem with my G1, it misses focus every now and again like any AF system, but not half the time. I use daylight mostly, often coming in through windows.
Steve

I mostly do opportunistic shooting on walkabouts - animals, birds, scenery. Before the G1, I used the FZ-50 P&S, and several pocket cameras. While the G1 focuses faster when it focuses, the focus success rate is little or no better than the P&S models.
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picnic
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« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2009, 07:19:12 AM »
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Quote from: 250swb
I've not had this problem with my G1, it misses focus every now and again like any AF system, but not half the time. I use daylight mostly, often coming in through windows.

Steve

My experience is the same.  The 45-200 has occasional misses extended/tele, but I've never had problems focusing with the 14-45.  I also love the MF assist--once one uses it its tough to try manual focus (ala a TS for instance on a 5D) on a DSLR.  Live view may make this an easier thing, but full time MF assist is just a breeze.  

Diane
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bg2b
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« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2009, 07:47:16 AM »
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Quote from: dalethorn
I mostly do opportunistic shooting on walkabouts - animals, birds, scenery. Before the G1, I used the FZ-50 P&S, and several pocket cameras. While the G1 focuses faster when it focuses, the focus success rate is little or no better than the P&S models.
That seems odd to me.  I've been much happier with my G1's AF compared to my (ex-)D40's AF.  With center point, they seemed basically equivalent in speed and success rate.  And with the G1's face-detection, it was much more often successful with our toddler.  He doesn't hold still and I didn't have as much of a problem of him moving while doing focus-recompose with the D40.  I've also been very impressed with the G1's accuracy when using the 25mm f/1.4, and that's not even a real micro-4/3 lens.
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dalethorn
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« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2009, 02:36:32 PM »
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Quote from: bg2b
That seems odd to me.  I've been much happier with my G1's AF compared to my (ex-)D40's AF.  With center point, they seemed basically equivalent in speed and success rate.  And with the G1's face-detection, it was much more often successful with our toddler.  He doesn't hold still and I didn't have as much of a problem of him moving while doing focus-recompose with the D40.  I've also been very impressed with the G1's accuracy when using the 25mm f/1.4, and that's not even a real micro-4/3 lens.

I use the 45-200 lens exclusively, and at least 70 percent of my shots are at full zoom.  I use the smallest focus setting (spot?), and when shooting a bird in a tree, the camera more often than not just can't focus.  That's with no obstructions like leaves and branches between camera and bird.  Shooting great blue herons flying from their nests to feeding places and back, or turkey vultures overhead, both large birds at no more than 100 to 150 feet distance, the camera can't focus on them most of the time, even though they're slow moving and you can see the camera attempting to focus.  Then again, I have the same problem with a lot of static objects.  Last night, watching a group of Canadian geese from about 25 feet away, a sparrow landed on the grass in the center of that group and started moving slowly from place to place, pausing every few seconds.  I got off about 8 shots, not a one was focused, and that with hazy sunlight on the lot at 45 minutes before sunset.
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DarkPenguin
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« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2009, 03:04:04 PM »
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Quote from: dalethorn
I use the 45-200 lens exclusively, and at least 70 percent of my shots are at full zoom.  I use the smallest focus setting (spot?), and when shooting a bird in a tree, the camera more often than not just can't focus.  That's with no obstructions like leaves and branches between camera and bird.  Shooting great blue herons flying from their nests to feeding places and back, or turkey vultures overhead, both large birds at no more than 100 to 150 feet distance, the camera can't focus on them most of the time, even though they're slow moving and you can see the camera attempting to focus.  Then again, I have the same problem with a lot of static objects.  Last night, watching a group of Canadian geese from about 25 feet away, a sparrow landed on the grass in the center of that group and started moving slowly from place to place, pausing every few seconds.  I got off about 8 shots, not a one was focused, and that with hazy sunlight on the lot at 45 minutes before sunset.

Yeah, the G1 has issues at the long end of the 45-200.  The 14-45 is plenty quick.  The 45-200 is okay on the wide end.

I really do not care for that lens much above 150mm.  By 200 it is decidedly in the really not good category.
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John Camp
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« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2009, 03:30:13 PM »
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Quote from: dalethorn
I use the 45-200 lens exclusively, and at least 70 percent of my shots are at full zoom.  I use the smallest focus setting (spot?), and when shooting a bird in a tree, the camera more often than not just can't focus.  That's with no obstructions like leaves and branches between camera and bird.  Shooting great blue herons flying from their nests to feeding places and back, or turkey vultures overhead, both large birds at no more than 100 to 150 feet distance, the camera can't focus on them most of the time, even though they're slow moving and you can see the camera attempting to focus.  Then again, I have the same problem with a lot of static objects.  Last night, watching a group of Canadian geese from about 25 feet away, a sparrow landed on the grass in the center of that group and started moving slowly from place to place, pausing every few seconds.  I got off about 8 shots, not a one was focused, and that with hazy sunlight on the lot at 45 minutes before sunset.

You're shooting the equivalent of a 400mm lens handheld on moving subjects. I'd say that chances are about 95% that your focus problem is actually blur -- *nobody* can handhold a 400mm with a high rate of success. Just the the fact that you have to press the release will jerk the photo around. *Any* vibration will blur it. Put it on a study tripod on a windless day and fire it with the timer, and I bet your focus problems will largely disappear.
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stever
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« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2009, 06:20:49 PM »
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i would expect the type of focus used in the G1 to have problems following a bird in flight - and 100-150 ft is really pretty far away resulting in a pretty small bird image

for a stationary object you should be able to shoot 400mm at 1/200 handheld -- if sensor based stabilization works at this long a focal length

shooting birds in flight you need to be at 1/600 or faster which will be fine with or without stabilization -- if the camera can focus

i regularly shoot shoot birds in flight handheld with a 40D and 100-400 at 640 equivalent -- the success rate is far less than 100% but much more often for focus issues and framing than motion blur
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dalethorn
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« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2009, 08:23:12 PM »
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Quote from: John Camp
You're shooting the equivalent of a 400mm lens handheld on moving subjects. I'd say that chances are about 95% that your focus problem is actually blur -- *nobody* can handhold a 400mm with a high rate of success. Just the the fact that you have to press the release will jerk the photo around. *Any* vibration will blur it. Put it on a study tripod on a windless day and fire it with the timer, and I bet your focus problems will largely disappear.

Blur isn't the problem at all - I have hundreds of photos like these from Bolsa Chica (taken with the PanaFZ-50), and I'm accumulating quite a few from Ohio with the Pana G1.  The FZ-50 is clearly inferior, with IS and a 420 mm equiv. lens, yet the focus success rate was about the same as the G1.  In fact, with the G1 set to the default of not allowing the shutter to trip when the camera thinks focus can't be achieved, I was constantly pushing the shutter release and the camera wouldn't take the picture, so I turned that "feature" off.

After tens of thousands of photos with the Nikon 8800, Pana FZ-50, and now the G1, I have a really accurate idea of what the problem is, and the problem is that the G1 with the 45-200 just isn't much better (if any) than the 3 year old FZ-50.

And the point for prospective Olympus users is - use a short lens, or wait for good light.
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