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Author Topic: C1 3.7 vs 4x  (Read 12375 times)
Phil Indeblanc
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« on: June 19, 2009, 12:28:39 PM »
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I have read a few posts regarding this topic, and wanted to know specifcally about the Focus features/changes....

I use 3.7 now, and I like it very much.  
What are the top 3 or so highlights that I will see improvements on that will make worth while?

One of the most important functions for me is the Focus area during tethcapturing.  On the Mac it takes a bit of time for the window (I make it larger) to become focus. On the PC, viewing in the large setting (wish it would detach like the MAC version), I often have to move or select something for it to initiate focusing.  This I would hope to be faster and more feature rich.

I know I can download and try it, but I wanted to hear from people who now have it in flow.

I have a group mulitple use license now for DB, and wondering if going 4x Pro would be an upgrade for 1 of those or would I have to purchase Pro stand alone?

Anyone have any experience in this before I submit a email to Phase support (They are really great in support , I have had accurate but short answers,and it is an email
response time.

Thanks
« Last Edit: June 20, 2009, 01:33:23 PM by Phil Indeblanc » Logged

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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2009, 12:02:35 AM »
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Quote from: Phil Indeblanc
I have read a few posts regarding this topic, and wanted to know specifcally about the Focus features/changes....

I use 3.7 now, and I like it very much.  
What are the top 3 or so highlights that I will see improvements on that will make worth while?

One of the most important functions for me is the Focus area during tethcapturing.  On the Mac it takes a bit of time for the window (I make it larger) to become focus. On the PC, viewing in the large setting (wish it would detach like the MAC version), I often have to move or select something for it to initiate focusing.  This I would hope to be faster and more feature rich.

I know I can download and try it, but I wanted to hear from people who now have it in flow.

I have a group mulitple use license now for DB, and wondering if going 4x Pro would be an upgrade for 1 of those or would I have to purchase Pro stand alone?

Anyone have any experience in this before I submit a email to Phase support (They are really great in support , I have had accurate but short answers,and it is an email
response time.

Thanks


1) Customizability (change your workspace to suit your specific needs)
2) HDR and vibrance control
3) Support for newer cameras
4) 100% zoom possible WITHIN main window
5) Great support for two windows
6) Faster Processing (including rough JPG creation at about 1-2 images per second)
7) Additional focus-during-tethering options (Set Compare Variant or Disable Auto Select New methods)

Dozens of other smaller things.

This is as much a different program as an upgrade to 3.X so while there is a LOT of good there are also a few minor annoyances as well as a few major annoyances when comparing to Capture One 3.

Stability/Speed is very good on 4.8.1, so if you've evaluated 4.X earlier (especially if you haven't looked since the 4.5.X builds) then this is well worth another look. We have a class which is very frank about the advantages and disadvantages of C1 4.X vs. C1 3.X along with what you need to know when switching in our series of Online Capture One Screen Sharing Classes.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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DavidP
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« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2009, 01:18:15 AM »
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A lot of things are getting better with version 4 and it does a great job processing.
However the function of the focus tool is not the same as 3.7 at all. I don't know why Phase cannot understand this.
You can create a second window at 100 percent view, but there is no convenient way to scroll to critical points like the eyes.
It is also difficult to arrange both windows and switch between them, very awkward.
Version 3.7 allows you to quickly place the eyedropper to check a particular area of focus while having the full image in the main window for the client to see. Most professional photographers I know need this feature
This I find really essential when photographing people. Version 4 is just very awkward in this area. There is no way to get an easy to use focus tool and have the full image together. I find my self having to switch back and forth between the two versions.
I just wish they would fix this, also still waiting for the stitching tool.
When shooting more static photos or just processing, I use Version 4 and it works great. I wish I could just switch over, but I have to use version 3.7 most of the time.
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tho_mas
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« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2009, 04:51:56 AM »
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Quote from: DavidP
there is no convenient way to scroll to critical points like the eyes.
when you are at 100% try right click or crtl+click in the image... a little window appears showing you the current crop. Move inside the window to go to the detail you want to see...
As to the arrangement of the viewer window, yes, this is quite cumbersome.
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Phil Indeblanc
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« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2009, 01:39:08 PM »
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7) Additional focus-during-tethering options (Set Compare Variant or Disable Auto Select New methods)

This sounds interesting with the info of 2 popups being available.  I hope it locks the focus area and this allows to continually compare captures as you shoot


I like the fact tha when I have already selected the area of focus, the following captures will record and tha same area will be in focus to compare... It would be great to have a split to automatically compare the last image and the current recorded image for critical specified area.  This maybe what DavidP mentions?  One can only hope.  And I can't imagine Phase not having the focus lock or pan to desired area...That would just be unprofessional...and it sounds like Tho Mas, explains you can and I dont have to worry.
4) 100% zoom possible WITHIN main window

Doug, Thanks for the highlights,
3.7 is able to do 100% zoom in main window (At least thats what I think Im looking at when I do the zoom slider to 100%

The other features sound nice, specially customizing the space so I can choose what dominates the works space...hope it keeps me from using 2 screens for capture.(I have enough screens on the editing machines).

 I hope I hear a few more responses, before I download and try it.

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DavidP
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« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2009, 01:46:58 PM »
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I posted on the phase one forum as well about the focus tool. Someone from Phase answered and said that they will be  re-implementing it in V4 similar to the function of V3.7
good news
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tho_mas
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« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2009, 03:19:41 PM »
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Quote from: DavidP
I posted on the phase one forum as well about the focus tool. Someone from Phase answered and said that they will be  re-implementing it in V4 similar to the function of V3.7
good news
no, that is not good news. Would be much better if we could set it the tools pane. And - as all the tools in V4 - therefore would be detachable and repeatable in all the tools we want it in. This way we could use it for editing (small 100% crop in the tools pane) and for shooting (detatched and enlarged).
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Phil Indeblanc
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« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2009, 03:45:54 PM »
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Quote from: tho_mas
no, that is not good news. Would be much better if we could set it the tools pane. And - as all the tools in V4 - therefore would be detachable and repeatable in all the tools we want it in. This way we could use it for editing (small 100% crop in the tools pane) and for shooting (detatched and enlarged).

detached is great, as in editing usually 2 screens are used, and can easily be moved to the side. Split comparing 2 different images would be a VERY welcome feature.
The way the Mac is now, it is detatched, and it will lock the focus point as you shoot, the latest image will show in the focus window(i think I remember that correctly?).
Adding the image before in a second focus window along the one just transfering would be WAMMO!

It is the most important catagory during capture wrokflow, that is why I posted a new specific thread vs adding to other posts. Anyone doing critical work is not bothering with the small digiback screen, critical focus is checked on tether shooting, specially in studio shoots. Anything Phase can do to help in this area with features that help multi expose comparing would be welcome!  

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tho_mas
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« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2009, 03:59:06 PM »
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Quote from: Phil Indeblanc
The way the Mac is now, it is detatched, and it will lock the focus point as you shoot, the latest image will show in the focus window(i think I remember that correctly?).
the way it is now is that there is NO focus tool. There is the viewer... and as workaround you can use it similar as the focus tool (this is why they made it "always on top").
Yes, that's correct - next capture is shown in the crop area of the image before.
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Phil Indeblanc
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« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2009, 08:12:37 PM »
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Quote from: tho_mas
the way it is now is that there is NO focus tool. There is the viewer... and as workaround you can use it similar as the focus tool (this is why they made it "always on top").
Yes, that's correct - next capture is shown in the crop area of the image before.


I would guess that the Focus FEATURE on v3.7 is not really a tool, it is a display with some adjustments.  So David is saying there will be the ability for more than one display in order to compare 2 different images for focus. I hope these windows are moveable and scalable, as well as able to lock the area in selection while shooting to continually compare.

Is this the case in 4.8 now?
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tho_mas
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« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2009, 04:37:01 AM »
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Quote from: Phil Indeblanc
I would guess that the Focus FEATURE on v3.7 is not really a tool, it is a display with some adjustments.
either way ... I call almost everything in C1 a "tool". I call the histogram a "tool" as well as it is simply located in the tools pane.

Quote
So David is saying there will be the ability for more than one display in order to compare 2 different images for focus. I hope these windows are moveable and scalable, as well as able to lock the area in selection while shooting to continually compare.
Is this the case in 4.8 now?
in V4.8 you can compare 2 (and more) shots. The selected area will stick for the next shot so that you'll see the same crop at the same zoom size. And yes, the viewer is scalable and movable as well. You can place it on top of the main window of the application when using single monitor setup or on a second display when working with dual monitor setup. It already works very well. Sole issue I have is that the viewer is somewhat cumbersome when it comes to placing it on top of the main window when using single monitor setup. Therefore it would be handy the viewer could snap in the tools pane as well.

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Phil Indeblanc
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« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2009, 09:28:41 AM »
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Ahhh, thank you for clarification Thomas!

Sounds like the things I like are all in place :-)
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James R
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« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2009, 02:11:42 PM »
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Quote from: Phil Indeblanc
Ahhh, thank you for clarification Thomas!

Sounds like the things I like are all in place :-)

On Phase One's user forum, the posters have been very harsh and Phase One seems to be listening.  They continue to improve the program.  I find it very stable now and once the old focus tool/feature is added, it will be that much better.  Give it a try.
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Phil Indeblanc
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« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2009, 11:22:42 AM »
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Quote from: James R
On Phase One's user forum, the posters have been very harsh and Phase One seems to be listening.  They continue to improve the program.  I find it very stable now and once the old focus tool/feature is added, it will be that much better.  Give it a try.

I will, thanks for the update.
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« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2009, 12:40:49 AM »
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Quote from: Phil Indeblanc
I will, thanks for the update.

The 4.0 release was horrible, bug ridden, slow and completely useless. The current release is really very good. It even works on my (officially) not supported G5 PowerMac. I stopped using 3.7 all together. I just wished they they finally had a way to import old 3.7 raw image settings.
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« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2009, 04:23:23 PM »
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I wish they would offer the 3 series UI with the 4 series capabilities. I really like the 3.7 interface, whereas the 4.8 is, in my opinion, not as user/workflow friendly.
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2009, 08:52:24 AM »
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Quote from: ARD
I wish they would offer the 3 series UI with the 4 series capabilities. I really like the 3.7 interface, whereas the 4.8 is, in my opinion, not as user/workflow friendly.

Chances are good you are not fully tapping into the power of the new interface.

Of course UI is largely a matter of personal taste, so when I say the above maybe I should say this instead "of all of our customers who have taken one of our capture one 4 online training classes, every single one has ended up responding that they preferred the v4 interface."

Here are some advantages of the C14 UI
- customizable keyboard shortcuts (including the ability to sync these across multiple computers)
- Much more 2-monitor friendly
- store and recall different setups for different stages of your workflow (tether, edit, adjust)
- add and remove ANY tool from any tab
- float any tool (including e.g. histogram)

Doug Peterson
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« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2009, 05:03:24 PM »
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Thanks Doug, much appreciated. I'll take a look at the online course, and email you if I have any problems  

Just looked at the classes, didn't realise they were charged for, I would have hoped a leading company such as yours would have provided information free of charge for the end user.
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Phil Indeblanc
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« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2009, 05:50:21 PM »
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Quote from: ARD
Thanks Doug, much appreciated. I'll take a look at the online course, and email you if I have any problems  

Just looked at the classes, didn't realise they were charged for, I would have hoped a leading company such as yours would have provided information free of charge for the end user.



I think those tutorials are more indepth and show how to do different things beyond the basics.

Perhaps there is one that shows basic navigation functions, features, etc..... there might be one on Youtube.

I doubt Phase is charging for something like a user guide. basic user guide is expected with software.

besides...if it would help others into upgrading, I doubt it.  

Check the site, and try to contact your dealer or support.

There is no reason anyone needs to enroll in training in order to use/navigate the basics of a software.  For indepth or special How-To's, yes, but not for things that should be found in the help menu. or overview of the software usage basics..and I doubt Phase is doing that.  They have very good support in my experience.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2009, 05:51:37 PM by Phil Indeblanc » Logged

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« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2009, 06:34:46 PM »
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Quote from: ARD
Thanks Doug, much appreciated. I'll take a look at the online course, and email you if I have any problems  

Just looked at the classes, didn't realise they were charged for, I would have hoped a leading company such as yours would have provided information free of charge for the end user.


Quote from: Phil Indeblanc
I think those tutorials are more indepth and show how to do different things beyond the basics.
---
I doubt Phase is charging for something like a user guide. basic user guide is expected with software.
---
There is no reason anyone needs to enroll in training in order to use/navigate the basics of a software.  For indepth or special How-To's, yes, but not for things that should be found in the help menu. or overview of the software usage basics..and I doubt Phase is doing that.  They have very good support in my experience.


Phase One provides a pretty good user manual with the software; it is installed automatically with the program or you can download it separately.

When C1 4 was first released we had multiple free seminars and workshops at our two physical locations (MIA / ATL). In fact we even catered the events with good food and beer and brought in pretty models :-).

Also as a free offering to the community we also run a free tips blog. Examples:
  - http://www.captureintegration.com/2009/04/...s-very-quickly/
  - http://www.captureintegration.com/2009/03/...e-color-editor/
  - http://www.captureintegration.com/2008/05/...41-tips-tricks/

We offer paid online screen-sharing classes because it's such an advantage to see and hear the demonstration and be able to ask questions in real time. The advanced class also covers much more advanced usage of the program than you could ever hope to find in a user's manual.

Why aren't these classes free? We aren't Phase One. We are a dealer who carries Phase One*.

OUR customers receive the training for free (if they buy a DB with our support package from us) or at a discount (if they just buy the software or bought a DB before we offered the class).

It wouldn't be fair for us to include for free those people who bought Capture One online (which you can buy though us) and bought their Canon dSLR or Phase One DB (which you can buy from us) from someone else.

Honestly, if you made it through the class and didn't think you got your money's worth we would refund you every dime. It's $100/$200 (intro/masters) for something that's going to save you literally days of your life (faster workflow with less mistakes and better quality) given the amount of time you're likely to spend with C1. I've never had a dissatisfied attendee.

Doug Peterson
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« Last Edit: August 24, 2009, 06:35:31 PM by dougpetersonci » Logged

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