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Author Topic: Phase Acquires Leaf  (Read 35894 times)
TMARK
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« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2009, 11:36:52 AM »
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Does this mean I have to start using a wake-up cable with my Leaf 54s and Mamiya RZ?

All of the confusion in MFDB is such a pain.  I've been using backs since 2004, and never has it been as confusing as it is now.  If I were new to MFD, coming from DSLRs, and I shot people, I would buy an H3D system and forget about everything else.  Why?  Because its fire and forget, its all in one, it make sense, and it mostly just works.  Never mind the unforgiveable single AF point, it is the most user friendly experience you can get from a solvent company offering a truly quality product that you can order from B&H.

Phase should get on the AFI train, should allow .mos files to process in C1 using the color profiles/look up tables from LC 11.  

To be honest, I wish Jenoptic bought Leaf, so that Jenoptic could learn from Leaf's marketing prowess.

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DesW
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« Reply #21 on: June 25, 2009, 11:56:28 AM »
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Ho ,

Please put the Leaf LCD on the P65+

Bugger--I just saw a Pig fly!

Wishin and Hopin--dah dah ---------


DesW
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Rudy Torres
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« Reply #22 on: June 25, 2009, 11:58:57 AM »
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Quote from: Steve Hendrix/Phase One
Good question, though I don't see why not since already Phase One digital back files open natively in Adobe.


Steve Hendrix
Phase One


As long as you use the Tiff format.

- Rudy
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Snook
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« Reply #23 on: June 25, 2009, 12:07:19 PM »
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Quote from: DesW
Ho ,

Please put the Leaf LCD on the P65+

Bugger--I just saw a Pig fly!

Wishin and Hopin--dah dah ---------


DesW


Too Little ,Too Late...

WOW, it is a Dog eat Dog world after all!!!
Snook  

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woof75
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« Reply #24 on: June 25, 2009, 12:38:20 PM »
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We'll see some amazing competition between Phase and Leaf as they both battle for market share and hence profits, right.....
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gwhitf
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« Reply #25 on: June 25, 2009, 12:58:39 PM »
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Bad ASCII graph, in terms of sales:

Canon:                   |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

Nikon:                     |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

MF (all combined):   ||

This news, while important to Phase management, and Leaf employees, is but a tiny blip on the radar. I just hope Phase stays focused on what's really happening in the marketplace, and the current wishes, needs, and demands of the evolving commercial photographer. Hint: Keep your eye on Canon; not Leaf, (or Hasselblad). Canon (and Red) could be to Phase, what Digital was to Film. Whoosh -- overnight.

http://blog.livebooks.com/2009/06/five-vid...till-vs-motion/

Let's be honest: MF is comprised of:

a. a bunch of old retired guys with money
b. a few digital techs
c. a few advertising photographers (very few, in the grand scheme)
d. some architectural guys (very few, in the grand scheme)
« Last Edit: June 25, 2009, 03:22:38 PM by gwhitf » Logged
Dustbak
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« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2009, 12:59:18 PM »
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Hmmm... this means there will be basically 2 camera systems, Mamiya/Phase and the H? The Afi/Hy6 can now probably be regarded as a discontinued product.  I wonder what will happen with the digital back division at Sinar, is that already faded away..? The expected consolidation is at the moment really starting to happen.

I further wonder what the mentioned synergies between Phase & Leaf will be. I find it quite an unexpected turn of events. I would have expected a merger between Sinar/Leaf before this but hey, we currently live in turbulent times

Kudos to Phase for a bold and unexpected move, I hope they will make it a succes.
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ddk
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« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2009, 01:43:47 PM »
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Quote from: ThierryH
That is indeed good news, and I am happy for all the Leaf employees who can keep their job. They deserve it, not simply to disappear.

For the rest, I guess we have to let some time pass and things will become clear.

Thierry


Short term yes, but we still have to wait and see what happens long term. Personally I don't see the point for Phase to buy out Leaf and then keep the whole organization intact, what purpose would that serve? As far as sensor technology is concerned Phase already has access to both Dalsa and Kodak chips, their dealer network is stronger, their software is good enough, so what is it that Phase will gain here? Leaf's tooling? or some fresh brain power, which they might have been able to get without purchasing Leaf? Can you tell me how Phase benefits from this acquisition besides blocking a future investor? Though I don't know who would have bought Leaf at this point...
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david
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antonyoung
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« Reply #28 on: June 25, 2009, 01:51:20 PM »
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Quote from: ddk
Short term yes, but we still have to wait and see what happens long term. Personally I don't see the point for Phase to buy out Leaf and then keep the whole organization intact, what purpose would that serve? As far as sensor technology is concerned Phase already has access to both Dalsa and Kodak chips, their dealer network is stronger, their software is good enough, so what is it that Phase will gain here? Leaf's tooling? or some fresh brain power, which they might have been able to get without purchasing Leaf? Can you tell me how Phase benefits from this acquisition besides blocking a future investor? Though I don't know who would have bought Leaf at this point...

I don't understand it either, especially if the AFI is dead, that's the only reason I could see for buying Leaf. Was Leaf profitable?
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hcubell
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« Reply #29 on: June 25, 2009, 01:52:15 PM »
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I am sure Phase had to pay very little in cash for Leaf's assets(they were the only bidder and Phase has always been a bottom fisher), so this move really amounts to a very cheap, "destroy the competition" move. In one fell swoop, Phase puts Leaf away as a competitor and probably Sinar as well(a two-fer!). Without Leaf as a partner on the Hy6/AFI platform, it becomes much more likely that Sinar itself will pull the plug on the digital back and Hy6 business rather than going it alone. However, in the broader scheme of things, it strikes me as a foolish move. Leaf and Sinar today really are not competitors  to Phase. This is not 2004 when Leaf at least was a very worthy competitor to Phase and Hasselblad/Imacon was stuck selling backs that had to be hooked up to portable disk drives hanging off of your neck or belt. This is 2009, and Phase should be sticking to its more compelling projects like a first class camera body and not a warmed over AFD VIII, nice LCDs, leaf shutter lenses, etc.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2009, 01:52:46 PM by hcubell » Logged

pixjohn
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« Reply #30 on: June 25, 2009, 01:52:24 PM »
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I personally don't think it  good for photographers or the Leaf employees in the long run, but  it is good to keep the brand alive but...

1) Less competition is only good for the manufactures not the buyer.
2) Its makes no financial  sense for a business to run 2 products and software divisions
3) One less camera on the market. (AFI)
4) 2 sets of reps?? I can't imagine having PhaseOne and Leaf reps, twice the payroll?

My speculation  PhaseOne will merge both the backs and software into 1 brand. I am sure PhaseOne got a good deal, since its such a small business with high overhead.
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gwhitf
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« Reply #31 on: June 25, 2009, 02:14:08 PM »
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Quote from: hcubell
I am sure Phase had to pay very little in cash for Leaf's assets(they were the only bidder and Phase has always been a bottom fisher), so this move really amounts to a very cheap, "destroy the competition" move.

Howard,

It was much worse than that.

What Reichmann omitted out of that story, was that the Paulsen guy, and Yair, and those Phase guys were all on a plane to yet another one of those paid four week ski holidays, back in March. The GPS on the plane malfunctioned, and the plane got diverted to the Appalachian Trail for forced landing. But there was no place to land, so they started thowing other passengers off the plane, to lighten the load. The plane finally landed in Buenos Aires, Argentina, for some unknown reason.

Yair, Paulsen, and those Phase guys went out for drinks, once they landed, and they ended up with some woman named Maria, and they all got hammered. By 3am, they had a poker game going, back at the hotel, and Yair tried to salvage what was left of Leaf by bluffing on a poker hand. The Paulsen guy winked at the Phase guys, and they started upping the ante, and no one would call. At some point, they realized that whoever lost the hand was going to end up owning Leaf, so Paulsen and those Phase guys started bluffing each other, hoping not to end up owning Leaf (and Leaf Capture). Paulsen ended up with four aces, and those Phase guys only had a pair of deuces, so as they say in those books, the Rest is History.

Paulsen slipped a fifty in Yair's back pocket as they were leaving the hotel, because Paulsen knew he had just narrowly escaped a very bad deal...

The two Phase guys woke up in a ditch, the next morning, with that Maria woman, and the Phase guys rubbed their eyes, tried to find their toothbrush, looked at each other, and said, "WTF have we done..?
« Last Edit: June 25, 2009, 02:18:55 PM by gwhitf » Logged
carstenw
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« Reply #32 on: June 25, 2009, 02:27:56 PM »
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So let me get this straight: Phase now has three backs and still only one camera, and this the one which needs to be improved the most? They are doing something wrong. Especially since if Kodak or Dalsa are open to making 6x6 chips, the Hy6 would have been the camera to have. I am guessing that Phase offered $10 for the rights to the Hy6, and Jenoptik uttered a few choice words in reponse.

If everything goes well, Phase backs will soon have larger, brighter screens. If everything doesn't go well, Leaf backs will soon have smaller, dimmer screens.
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KAHA
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« Reply #33 on: June 25, 2009, 02:28:02 PM »
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Quote from: gwhitf
Howard,

It was much worse than that.

What Reichmann omitted out of that story, was that the Paulsen guy, and Yair, and those Phase guys were all on a plane to yet another one of those paid four week ski holidays, back in March. The GPS on the plane malfunctioned, and the plane got diverted to the Appalachian Trail for forced landing. But there was no place to land, so they started thowing other passengers off the plane, to lighten the load. The plane finally landed in Buenos Aires, Argentina, for some unknown reason.

Yair, Paulsen, and those Phase guys went out for drinks, once they landed, and they ended up with some woman named Maria, and they all got hammered. By 3am, they had a poker game going, back at the hotel, and Yair tried to salvage what was left of Leaf by bluffing on a poker hand. The Paulsen guy winked at the Phase guys, and they started upping the ante, and no one would call. At some point, they realized that whoever lost the hand was going to end up owning Leaf, so Paulsen and those Phase guys started bluffing each other, hoping not to end up owning Leaf (and Leaf Capture). Paulsen ended up with four aces, and those Phase guys only had a pair of deuces, so as they say in those books, the Rest is History.

Paulsen slipped a fifty in Yair's back pocket as they were leaving the hotel, because Paulsen knew he had just narrowly escaped a very bad deal...

The two Phase guys woke up in a ditch, the next morning, with that Maria woman, and the Phase guys rubbed their eyes, tried to find their toothbrush, looked at each other, and said, "WTF have we done..?

You crack me up LOL  
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #34 on: June 25, 2009, 02:37:17 PM »
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I doubt very much that most people at Leaf will keep their jobs. The only reason for Phase to do this was to buy a little market share, but as soon as they can they will be selling Phase backs with Leaf branding. Nothing else makes financial sense.

Quote from: carstenw
So let me get this straight: Phase now has three backs and still only one camera, and this the one which needs to be improved the most?

Bingo! If the Hy6 were to be discontinued, there would only be one active leaf shutter platform left (Hasselblad) and no camera left with a proper WLF. Phase and Leaf users will be stuck with the worst available camera body. That's the real tragedy. Phase was crazy to buy Leaf and not the Hy6! In fact, that would be such an obvious move that it makes me think the Hy6 is not for sale and must have some other future planned. We'll soon know.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2009, 02:38:34 PM by foto-z » Logged

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tho_mas
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« Reply #35 on: June 25, 2009, 02:43:30 PM »
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Quote from: foto-z
Phase was crazy to buy Leaf and not the Hy6!
I don't think that Phase could buy the Hy6 together with Leaf... as the Hy6 is not owned by Leaf...
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carstenw
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« Reply #36 on: June 25, 2009, 02:43:51 PM »
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Quote from: foto-z
Bingo! If the Hy6 were to be discontinued, there would only be one active leaf shutter platform left (Hasselblad) and no camera left with a proper WLF. Phase and Leaf users will be stuck with the worst available camera body. That's the real tragedy. Phase was crazy to buy Leaf and not the Hy6! In fact, that would be such an obvious move that it makes me think the Hy6 is not for sale and must have some other future planned. We'll soon know.

In other words, Phase bought Leaf so that they could discontinue the large-screen backs, so that people would stop pointing at them and ask Phase why they can't have a big screen like that, and they killed the Hy6 so that AFDIII owners wouldn't point at it and ask Phase why they couldn't have a camera like that with focus bracketing, a waist-level finder, and a huge, bright viewfinder. Wow, a couple more moves like that and everyone will just buy Phase. Or a Canon.
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #37 on: June 25, 2009, 02:50:34 PM »
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Quote from: tho_mas
I don't think that Phase could buy the Hy6 together with Leaf... as the Hy6 is not owned by Leaf...

 

I never wrote or implied that the Hy6 was connected to Leaf. I wrote that Phase was crazy to buy Leaf rather than the Hy6. They need a better camera body much more than another back manufacturer, as Carsten already pointed out.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2009, 02:51:09 PM by foto-z » Logged

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Rob C
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« Reply #38 on: June 25, 2009, 03:13:40 PM »
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And to think nobody offered to buy my F3 and D200 so I could buy a D700. Miserable sods.

Rob C
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mcfoto
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« Reply #39 on: June 25, 2009, 03:27:55 PM »
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WOW!
I am very surprised by this event. We are going to the PMA show in Sydney today & the dealers are there ( Phase, Leaf & Hasselblad ). Almost all the work we have done with MFD has been with Leaf & just last week we did a flash test with the Phase 65+. I am very glad that Leaf will continue as they are an excellent company. There SW is very good & since all the Leaf backs use Dalsa chips C1 should be able to support Leaf backs. There is a lot of knowledge & R&D @ Leaf. This marriage would make sense with the MAC group who sell Mamiya ( now Phase ).  The Hy6 is a very nice camera & its future is still unknown. Off to the show.
Cheers Denis
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Denis Montalbetti
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