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Author Topic: Is the future of medium format still imaging actually video?  (Read 37147 times)
Boris_Epix
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« on: June 30, 2009, 02:29:55 PM »
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I might come accross as a fanboy because I'm so enthusiastic for RED's future EPIC offereings that will come in FF35, 6x45, 6x17 sensor sizes. The level of innovation, enthusiasm and the hunger of Jim Jannard and his team but also the existing userbase is just incredible.

I started saving up for a red investment months ago and keep an eye on the red.com webpage but yesterday I came across this video footage that just made me speechless and kept me smiling for minutes.

Check out that dynamic range, the lifelike or even better colors, the skin texture, skintone, detail in the eyes. Look at the skies - even overcast skies have nice definition and detail. It also has that nice film feel to it.

I'm so deeply impressed and I believe you will be too after watching this video.

Caution: The video is over 400 MB so save it to disk instead of watching in your browser. That way you can go to full-screen mode too.

Red.com video footage - Reel 720

The link can be found in this thread
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dougster_ling
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« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2009, 03:16:37 PM »
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Quote from: Boris_Epix
I might come accross as a fanboy because I'm so enthusiastic for RED's future EPIC offereings that will come in FF35, 6x45, 6x17 sensor sizes. The level of innovation, enthusiasm and the hunger of Jim Jannard and his team but also the existing userbase is just incredible.

I started saving up for a red investment months ago and keep an eye on the red.com webpage but yesterday I came across this video footage that just made me speechless and kept me smiling for minutes.

Check out that dynamic range, the lifelike or even better colors, the skin texture, skintone, detail in the eyes. Look at the skies - even overcast skies have nice definition and detail. It also has that nice film feel to it.

I'm so deeply impressed and I believe you will be too after watching this video.

Caution: The video is over 400 MB so save it to disk instead of watching in your browser. That way you can go to full-screen mode too.

Red.com video footage - Reel 720

The link can be found in this thread


Boris,
I think you are right on with this message. I to think the future is in RED technology and the window it opens up. I also think that unless Phase One includes a video capability to their digital back formats they will be in a tough position in the near future.

Douglas
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2009, 03:25:56 PM »
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This has been posted so many times. So much that I believe Michael started a new forum for video cameras.

I just don't see it happening within next 5-10 years at least.

Afaik, Red doesn't work with flash, and has very limited shutter speeds. Also, who wants to shoot with this monster?? People are already complaining about the size and weight of MF cameras.

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« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2009, 04:08:57 PM »
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Quote from: foto-z
This has been posted so many times. So much that I believe Michael started a new forum for video cameras.

I just don't see it happening within next 5-10 years at least.

Afaik, Red doesn't work with flash, and has very limited shutter speeds. Also, who wants to shoot with this monster?? People are already complaining about the size and weight of MF cameras.


The Red can be configured for hand held work.  What you posted was a shot of a Red set up like an Arri or Panavision 35mm film camera.  We use our Red in a much smaller configuration for most things.  Remove the i/o sync box, the matte box, the long lens (a 180mm?), the accessory attachments, etc., and its smaller than an ENG camera from a year or two back.  We shot on a tram in Brussels last March, hand held, available light, and were barely noticed until Grief or Refuse or one of those miserable stops where the dejected, marginalized, angry Brussels residents hang out.

I think, and this is my opinion based upon my experience as a stills shooter in NYC and as a video producer/gaffer/writer/DP in NYC, that stills will be increasingly marginalized, pushed off to the edges as one of three things:   a commodity (Flickr, iStock); incidental to the video shoot; or super highend work shot by fine artists.  The low and medium end of the market is disapearing under our feet.  Now that I mainly work in motion, I can say that my rates are WAY up, I feel more mobile, and I get more respect from art buyers because I'm not bidding against hundreds of others for a grey seamless/pretty girl shoot.  Ignoring the change that is already well underway is like the band playing on the deck of the Titanic.
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canmiya
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« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2009, 04:36:21 PM »
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Quote from: foto-z
This has been posted so many times. So much that I believe Michael started a new forum for video cameras.

I just don't see it happening within next 5-10 years at least.

Afaik, Red doesn't work with flash, and has very limited shutter speeds. Also, who wants to shoot with this monster?? People are already complaining about the size and weight of MF cameras.

true  flash may not be an option, but if you are shooting video with continuous lights like HMI, you can very easily shoot stills.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2009, 04:38:39 PM by canmiya » Logged
michael
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« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2009, 04:52:53 PM »
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Scarlet will change everything. Trust me on this, (and quote me if I prove to be wrong).

I've eaten my hat before, but not often, and I don't think I will this time

Michael
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mattlap2
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« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2009, 05:04:58 PM »
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I think there will definitely be an even greater shift towards video and away from still.   A reduction in print advertising means advertising will shift more and more to the web.   Increases in bandwidth will just means stills on the web become video on the web.   I think its a natural progression that can't be stopped.

There will always be still in some form in advertising, but a lesser role over time.

So it is quite possible that MFDB or Red stills might be a non-issue before long.

Obviously that punishes the users that need high resolution stills for exhibition prints or other uses.   But the numbers might not be there to support those markets.
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Boris_Epix
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« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2009, 05:39:28 PM »
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I ABSOLUTELY  do NOT understand why this thread has been moved to the video section. To be honest my work has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with videography. I'm not even (yet) interested in that currently.

DSMC stand for DIGITAL STILL MOTION CAMERA. So this means it's every bit as much a still images capture device as it is suited to capture moved pictures. It's kinda like a 1D MK3 with better frame rates and more resolution. The red RAW format will even be supported by Adobe.

Read for yourself what RED's considers their DSMC to be in the Red Epic FAQ

This seems really short-sighted. I feel this thread doesn't reach the intended audience here. I was particularly talking about STILL IMAGES. This IS GOING to eat away major MFDB market share or even end MFDB's completely. That is the context that some people don't understand.

And World Police "foto-z" that has never anything more to offer than "This has been posted before" (so what? Millions of men tell their wifes they love them although it's been said at least a billion times). Please send me the link to the thread where this VIDEO has been posted before. You say it's too big and spreading COMPLETELY uninformed BS.

This body can be configured in many different configurations. It can be configured as a DSLR that is probably smaller in size (at least depth) than a Hassy H3, Mamiya RZ, Mamiya 645, Leaf AFI/HY6 because it does NOT have a mirror. So it doesn't have mirrorbounce that somewhat reduces low speed shooting possibilities like it did with H1/H2 and to some extend still with H3 Hassies.

Some pics that should make it obvious how compact IT CAN BE: DSLR configuration of RED EPIC

Also, let's not forget that they are currently only working on their second generation of products. Can you remember CD's, MD's, vinyl, tapes? Now you can fit more music onto a single miniature SD card than a couple dozen CD's could store. iPod anyone? With time stuff gets smaller but obvious the sensor size, modularity and required "sturdiness" comes into play too.

It can certainly be switched to STILL IMAGE mode and it will certainly work with strobes as you can read HERE: Will the DSMC have a hot shoe so that strobes can be fired with a pocket wizard?

But I guess it would make more sense to work with HMI's and other continuous lighting.


So back to what this thread was about. Can you imagine extracting A SINGLE PICTURE out of that video and that is what your still images will look like without hours and hours of photoshop retouching just to get pleasing color and enough dynamic range? What do you think about the quality of the footage. The skin texture doesn't seem waxed like a Canon 1Ds MK2. Transitions to shadows are gorgeous. It has a film like look. The iris of the eyes has gorgeous detail that you will never get with a 1Ds MK3 and hardly ever with a P30+. In some sequences the colors are so saturated and gorgeous as possibly only velvia could render them but still skintones are nice.

I am impressed. With every single STILL frame.
 
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PeterA
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« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2009, 09:17:38 PM »
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Hi Boris,

the link you posted doesn't work for me or a few other friends that have tried..

Leaving that aside - you aren't the only one that is seeing the end of MFD as we have known it - however one caveat - I want movements in still form l so I can control the image I make in something more than just flat planes and I will watch the announcements regarding lens manufacturer choice for the 617. If RED can somehow allow/create a platform that also delivers technical camera capability - well - it is pretty much game over.

A lot of people talk costs btw - in Australia the official quoted price I hear for the Phase One P65+ I am told is nearly $70,000 - I know that I wont be buying into another iteration of the MFD scam. These clowns were actually 'bragging about the price at the profesional imaging show last week...

btw - no need to be so strident, believe it or not- a lot of people have a brain and quietly go about comparing this versus that value proposition  - it is technology that has got me and quite a few friends very excited - interestingly - not one of us currently owns or shoots with ANY form of video and not one of us needs to make a living out of making images - RED redefines what FUN is - and that is what is exciting.

The market that RED is going to attract is MUCH bigger than the current market for MFD backs - current back technology is already irrelevant to everyone except vested interests and conflicted groupings blah blah blah.. it wont matter in th end..it wont matter how much old tech people bray and spray and propagandise and preach - nothing will matter except the quality of the value proposition. The timing of the death of MFD - well that is about IF/WHEN RED actually delivers - oh and dont think that the CaNikons aren't watching and thinking either.


Pete
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Boris_Epix
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« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2009, 12:00:57 AM »
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Hey Pete

Actually the video is over 400 MB so you will need to download it first in full before you can watch it. I'd assume that's going to take 10-30 minutes depending on your download speed.
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James R Russell
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« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2009, 12:11:35 PM »
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Quote from: Boris_Epix
moved to the video section.


I think this topic was moved to stop the noise that would have been inevitable in the "used medium format camera section" and before anyone thinks that is an unfair remark, that really is where medium format has been for a long time, in the legacy camera business.

HY6's were not finished (never to be finished) reworked 6008's, H series blads  were made for film, Mamiyas are still warmed over film cameras and that's it.   The only close to new "cameras" in the world of medium format all based around the days of film and 1 second a frame capture, (at best).

Also if you look at the posts in that section it's mostly about past cameras, RZ's, Rollei 6008s,  HY6's/AFI's, Hasselblad V's.  It's like the buyers guide to KEH.

The world of professional image making for profit has moved on and if anyone doesn't believe this, go to the bio section of any large NY repping firm and every photographer's little black and white portrait shows them standing behind a Canon or Nikon, soon it will be a Canon, Nikon or RED with an hdmi port 20mm rods and a mattbox.

The emails I get from digital techs, production companies and studios all are pushing the RED or the 5d2 as video/still solutions and whether anyone in traditional still photography likes it or not, the talk in advertising is not about print, it's about interactive and motion media.

Where RED fits in on any of this, only Canon and Nikon know, but the the Scarlet or whatever it will be called comes out with a real 4 to 5k image that looks good in still and motion, then it might be the next professional imaging tool.  If it comes out at $40,000 and Canon or Nikon make one for $8,000 then it probably won't be the next professional imaging camera.

Actually I think costs is less to do with the actual camera, than usability.  If RED can make the software right,  meet their users deadlines and expectations and not go down the path of medium format still cameras then they might be ok, because today nobody has the time or energy to learn a new medium with any  camera that is a work in progress.

This doesn't mean that a RED or 5d2 will spell the end of still photography, it just means that we will work differently in the professional world.  The people that can tell a story with still cameras are quite capable of telling an interesting visual story with motion cameras and though today you might not be able to view full 2000 pixel wide video streaming on your computer in real time, don't think that it won't happen soon and don't think that advertisers don't want an advertising vehicle that makes the viewer see their product and logo for more than 2 seconds as they flip a page.

In fact all I have to do is look around my, or anyone's office and it's obvious that it has become a world of lcd screens.

It's Michael's forum to do with as he pleases, but if interest in this forum is going to be maintained, or grown, I would respectfully suggest he change the name of this section from videography to professional motion cameras, because what's coming out are really not just video cameras and really won't be just inexpensive combo cams.

I would also suggest it be moved under, or above the medium format section because even in his own word's the Scarlet will change everything and this is where the talk is going to be.

JR
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billy
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« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2009, 07:46:57 PM »
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[quote name='Boris_Epix' date='Jun 30 2009, 02:29 PM' post='294742']

"Check out that dynamic range, the lifelike or even better colors, the skin texture, skintone, detail in the eyes. Look at the skies - even overcast skies have nice definition and detail. It also has that nice film feel to it. "

I agree, the footage looks beautiful and I cant wait to get my hands on the FF35 Scarlet. But dont be fooled by the 'dynamic range' here, these are big budget shoots with tons of union crews & electrician trucks with HMI's etc filling in the shadows.

me, I am investing in lighting for now, and am secretly hoping canon answers with their own DSMC with the 13 stop DR that Red is promising for some of their future cameras.

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Schewe
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« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2009, 12:42:42 AM »
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Quote from: James R Russell
Where RED fits in on any of this, only Canon and Nikon know, but the the Scarlet or whatever it will be called comes out with a real 4 to 5k image that looks good in still and motion, then it might be the next professional imaging tool.  If it comes out at $40,000 and Canon or Nikon make one for $8,000 then it probably won't be the next professional imaging camera.

Actually I think costs is less to do with the actual camera, than usability.  If RED can make the software right,  meet their users deadlines and expectations and not go down the path of medium format still cameras then they might be ok, because today nobody has the time or energy to learn a new medium with any  camera that is a work in progress.

I think you are right...in point of fact, none of the current crop of "combo-cams" are worth a crap from the standpoint of cinematography...want a zoom motor? Get a real motion picture camera...want focus stops? Get a real motion picture camera Want some really good (and really friggin' expensive) optics? Get a real motion picture camera.

While Nikon and Canon are producing cameras that "can' get really nice video, shooting the stuff is way ugly. Canon needed a firmware update to allow auto-focus during video capture...really? I mean doh...

The Red camera has all the earmarks of a good motion picture camera––note, I ain't talking "video here" but if a video camera has the same functionality as a Mitchell or Panavision, then it's a motion picture camera like the Red.

It's cool...and Hollywood (and the rest of the film word is smitten) but for "stills" (what the motion people like to call photography if they don't call it "flat-shit" which a lot of agency producers call it) I can imagine what my life would be if I went from trying to setup and get the moment (a typical approach to "stills") instead of spending hours and hours going over all the hours of motion material in the hopes of getting a really good single frame that works as a still. See, if you are shooting "motion" then you aren't looking for "stills".

Still and motion are two entirely different mindsets. I shot commercial film in the late 1980's and while I made a good cinematographer (DP) I never really made what would be considered a "good" director. That's another whole set of skills and mindset. And don't get me started on editing...here are very, very few people who are good directors _AND_ editors...Chris Sanderson might be an exception (although it sure takes friggin' forever to get stuff edited––I love ya Chris).

I think the funniest thing I've heard of lately is that Vincent Laforet is gonna move to Hollywood to shoot movies...yeah, right...Vince is a real good shooter but he has no concept of what Hollywood is all about. They will chew him up and spit him out and move right along to the next sucker.


:~)
"The Movies" is a very special industry and not many "photographers" would last a New York minute in it...
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James R Russell
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« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2009, 02:08:14 AM »
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Quote from: Schewe
I think you are right...in point of fact, none of the current crop of "combo-cams" are worth a crap from the standpoint of cinematography...want a zoom motor? Get a real motion picture camera...want focus stops? Get a real motion picture camera Want some really good (and really friggin' expensive) optics? Get a real motion picture camera.


Your points are well taken, though some of it is a little dated.

I don't for a moment believe that every still photographer is going to be asked, (or be good at) shooting a 90 minute feature, a 20 minute short, even a high budget 30 second spot.

Then again, the world of advertising has taken a serious change.  Interactive is the only thing anybody is talking about and I can understand why.

Myself, this year I've planned and had design work done for three direct mailing campaigns.  Each time when we are ready to go to press, I've hit the brakes.

Mainly because at this stage 1/3 of the recipients aren't in their same rolls or have their jobs and the other 2/3's really aren't buying that much large produciton high end photography, at least in traditional print.

Also in traditional print, to reach even a moderate number of qualified viewers is 2000x more expensive than
a well designed electronic promotion.

If this holds true in my industry, then the same can be said for consumer advertising.  Nobody wants to spend $200,000 in still  production on a campaign, $1,000,000 on a media buy,  that may go into a magazine, that may go on a shelf, that may be bought all with a lead time of 90 days and all the while the magazine has dropped circulation and pages or worse is read mostly on the web, because we all know the web is free.  (insert insane smile here).

The advertisers that want to get their message out, want it out today and if motion can be added to a still shoot that is just gravy on top and everyone likes a little gravy.

We've spoken to a lot of AD's we work with, about every talent agent in the U.S. (mostly to renegotiate use on older projects), production companies, crew, etc. etc. and all exactly echo the same story.

The one thing that everyone talks about is motion.  I'm not even sure if at this stage agencies and their respective advertisers really know what to do with it when they get it, or  what vehicle to place it in to get proper viewership, but they ALL want motion  along with stills of the same quality and would love nothing more than to have a still frame from a motion clip that is good enough to run double page.

Every paying client I know is much more than interested.

It's funny our business is very myopic.   You talk to an AD about Vincent L.  and few know of the Canon video or of his work, other than stills.  You talk to them about the new Levi's and Wrangler Europe interactive campaigns and they all know about those and those are motion pieces.

As far as making it in Hollywood, hell, LA, NY any major market is tough in any form of the industry, so going to get chewed up and spit out is nothing new.  I wish Vincent the best of luck.

Now in regards to post production.   Professional post production, stills or motion is difficult and time consuming if you shoot in volume, under deadline and have high expectations.   I find it no harder to pull a days shooting of selected motion clips and display them than I do 2,000 still frames.  I find it no more difficult to do some quick color correction on footage than I do batch processing out 2,000 jpegs  so in the end it is close to  being a wash.

Editing, effecting, color correcting for final output, yes that it another layer, (well except the color correcting) but that is usually handed off to a third party, so from the photographer/dp./director (whatever we are nowadays) it's pretty much the same.

In regards to the Canon, it has it's issues, though for 3 grand it's magic and I've seen some pretty amazing imagery produced from that camera.

Will a 5d2 replace a Scarlet?  No, probably not, but will a 5d2 work within a lot of dual purpose media, even high budget media . . . yes it will.  It does take a lot of accessories to work that camera at a professional level including click stops for focus, but their is a cottage industry that has developed for the 5d2 that is not only quite large, also backordered by months, so obviously this camera is very much on everyone's mind.

I have my own take and belief's on where advertising is going and about 1/2 is just pure speculation, though I do know that print and traditional network television viewing  is down, and "personal" computer time is up,  so that kind of tells us what image carrier is going to get the most attention in the future.

Then again as Michael says, I could be wrong, though I don't think so . . . not this time.

JR

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Schewe
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« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2009, 02:23:33 AM »
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Quote from: James R Russell
I have my own take and belief's on where advertising is going and about 1/2 is just pure speculation, though I do know that print and traditional network television viewing  is down, and "personal" computer time is up,  so that kind of tells us what image carrier is going to get the most attention in the future.


At the doctor's office last week I had plenty of time to sit around and wait (naturally) so I took the liberty of looking through the consumer magazines the office had laying around. It was sad (and a bit shocking although I had already known what to expect from previous visits). The page count in Time or Sports Illustrated or People are SERIOUSLY way, way down–I mean they're like newsletters...however the page count in Vanity Fair isn't doing so bad. Vogue is pretty fat an happy too. But by and large the magazines that _USED_ to house the national ads I used to shoot have piddly crap in them now. Boy I sure am glad I don't shoot commercially anymore!!!

I don't have a reliable crystal ball on commercial ad work these days (I got out a few years back cause it just disgusted me what people were willing to bust a nut for) but I don't think we've seen what the future really is. We've seen bits and pieces...tiny slices at best. But when real broadband (I mean streaming HD video broadband) the "net" ain't gonna look like ot does now.

Last decade it was the internet phone beaming really bad frozen & broken video of journalists embedded in Iraq, now it's Iranians beaming out cell phone video (which still sucks but does gets you to look, watch and react).

Personally I just shoot images I feel like these days and do the occasional book now and then. It just ain't fun anymore to do "real work".

:~)
« Last Edit: July 02, 2009, 02:26:01 AM by Schewe » Logged
michael
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« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2009, 06:52:45 AM »
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Some of what James has written above are  among the mostly insightful comments that I've read about what's going on in the industry, and is echoed loudly by many working pros that I speak to.

As for Jeff's comment... "Personally I just shoot images I feel like these days and do the occasional book now and then. It just ain't fun anymore to do "real work".

All I can add is – AMEN.

Michael

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canmiya
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« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2009, 08:56:10 AM »
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Quote from: Schewe
I
I think the funniest thing I've heard of lately is that Vincent Laforet is gonna move to Hollywood to shoot movies...yeah, right...Vince is a real good shooter but he has no concept of what Hollywood is all about. They will chew him up and spit him out and move right along to the next sucker.


:~)
"The Movies" is a very special industry and not many "photographers" would last a New York minute in it...
who knows - but i imagine more than a few people raised an eye brow back in the early 50's when look magazine photographer stanley kubrick had similar aspirations.
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« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2009, 05:59:08 PM »
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Apologies if my points were already covered a dozen times above.

I still have a dichroic colour enlarger and would probably still be on film if it weren't for my wife's foot in my arse, so I consider myself more a dinosaur than a technology fan boy.

BUT, the future promised by the Red Scarlet/Epic, should it deliver, seems so compelling I feel like I'm ready to not only drink the Kool-Aide, but mix it up in big batches.  

I don't have a plan for using one.  I certainly don't have continuous lighting for it, but I will probably buy one as soon as I can and figure out the important details later.

I'm embarrassed about my emotional response, but I can't remember the last time technology got me all hot and bothered.

What I'm pretty sure of is that if you could have a Red 645 Epic for the same money as a MFD back system, having both MF quality stills AND video -- unless size of the unit is a deal breaker -- how could you not opt for the Red solution and have both options available?  Obviously this applies more to users who don't already have a system they're happy with and heavily invested in.

Then again, I don't do this for a living full time, but I can't imagine I'm far off from what people will be thinking when units are actually available.
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Alex MacPherson
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« Reply #18 on: July 02, 2009, 08:34:28 PM »
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From the latest British Journal of Photography

quoting Nick Knight

'I'm one of the last fashion photographers,' he says. 'If I was 15 right now, I wouldn't want to start working for magazines, because they're clearly not the most interesting thing around. Other people must be thinking the same thing. They're looking through the magazines and thinking, "There's no excitement in these things any more because they're just dolling out the advertisers' lines and products". All the excitement is over there on the internet.'

'If people randomly see my images on the back of a magazine there's no preconception about how they should judge them, they're just the vernacular of what they see,' he says. 'That's how photography works best. But if you want to speak to people, and what I do is communication, then there's no point in going and speaking to very few people when you could speak to many more. A magazine might have 10,000 readers, but I can reach 10 million people through the internet. It's the medium best suited to where we are now.

'I have three kids. My youngest is just 12, and the oldest is 16,' he adds. 'They don't pick up magazines, and we have lots of them in the house. They look at the internet, talk to their friends across chat rooms and social networking sites and go on YouTube. That's the reality. It's different media, different ways, and I want to work on the medium where the most interesting things are happening. Taking a load of photographs and putting them in a magazine that nobody looks at is very unappealing. Creating a set of photographs to hang in a gallery for some of my friends to go and see holds no interest whatsoever. We're looking at a completely different set of values.'
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« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2009, 11:20:13 PM »
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Quote from: James R Russell
Your points are well taken, though some of it is a little dated.

I don't for a moment believe that every still photographer is going to be asked, (or be good at) shooting a 90 minute feature, a 20 minute short, even a high budget 30 second spot.

Then again, the world of advertising has taken a serious change.  Interactive is the only thing anybody is talking about and I can understand why.

Myself, this year I've planned and had design work done for three direct mailing campaigns.  Each time when we are ready to go to press, I've hit the brakes.

Mainly because at this stage 1/3 of the recipients aren't in their same rolls or have their jobs and the other 2/3's really aren't buying that much large produciton high end photography, at least in traditional print.

Also in traditional print, to reach even a moderate number of qualified viewers is 2000x more expensive than
a well designed electronic promotion.

If this holds true in my industry, then the same can be said for consumer advertising.  Nobody wants to spend $200,000 in still  production on a campaign, $1,000,000 on a media buy,  that may go into a magazine, that may go on a shelf, that may be bought all with a lead time of 90 days and all the while the magazine has dropped circulation and pages or worse is read mostly on the web, because we all know the web is free.  (insert insane smile here).

The advertisers that want to get their message out, want it out today and if motion can be added to a still shoot that is just gravy on top and everyone likes a little gravy.

We've spoken to a lot of AD's we work with, about every talent agent in the U.S. (mostly to renegotiate use on older projects), production companies, crew, etc. etc. and all exactly echo the same story.

The one thing that everyone talks about is motion.  I'm not even sure if at this stage agencies and their respective advertisers really know what to do with it when they get it, or  what vehicle to place it in to get proper viewership, but they ALL want motion  along with stills of the same quality and would love nothing more than to have a still frame from a motion clip that is good enough to run double page.

Every paying client I know is much more than interested.

It's funny our business is very myopic.   You talk to an AD about Vincent L.  and few know of the Canon video or of his work, other than stills.  You talk to them about the new Levi's and Wrangler Europe interactive campaigns and they all know about those and those are motion pieces.

As far as making it in Hollywood, hell, LA, NY any major market is tough in any form of the industry, so going to get chewed up and spit out is nothing new.  I wish Vincent the best of luck.

Now in regards to post production.   Professional post production, stills or motion is difficult and time consuming if you shoot in volume, under deadline and have high expectations.   I find it no harder to pull a days shooting of selected motion clips and display them than I do 2,000 still frames.  I find it no more difficult to do some quick color correction on footage than I do batch processing out 2,000 jpegs  so in the end it is close to  being a wash.

Editing, effecting, color correcting for final output, yes that it another layer, (well except the color correcting) but that is usually handed off to a third party, so from the photographer/dp./director (whatever we are nowadays) it's pretty much the same.

In regards to the Canon, it has it's issues, though for 3 grand it's magic and I've seen some pretty amazing imagery produced from that camera.

Will a 5d2 replace a Scarlet?  No, probably not, but will a 5d2 work within a lot of dual purpose media, even high budget media . . . yes it will.  It does take a lot of accessories to work that camera at a professional level including click stops for focus, but their is a cottage industry that has developed for the 5d2 that is not only quite large, also backordered by months, so obviously this camera is very much on everyone's mind.

I have my own take and belief's on where advertising is going and about 1/2 is just pure speculation, though I do know that print and traditional network television viewing  is down, and "personal" computer time is up,  so that kind of tells us what image carrier is going to get the most attention in the future.

Then again as Michael says, I could be wrong, though I don't think so . . . not this time.

JR
Just as I have started to use the original 1Ds camera from Canon years ago, migrate from my Contax N Digital, I always see the digital still and motion is the same media, like it was with film use on still camera and motion camera. Every technology is pushing it to happen, allow it to happen, and it must happen. What I see the difference is with still image, the photographer is the master, yes, shooting some advertising with agency and director and a layout (have to do it because the layout is sold), but still in large part, the photographer is the master.  For motion pictures, photographer is more like a technician, several of them, one holds the camera, one help with focus, one help to move the camera on dolly (when it is not on steady cam), the photographers are a team of technicians, and the director is the master.  I think it is inevitable the lines of still and motion will cross, but the term photographer and meaning behind it will not be the same, at least not exact the same.  When we look at the still image we question the man behind the camera, when we see the motion pictures, we asked about the director or sometimes the producer, few about photographer - or simply the "camera man".  I did not say "camera man" is not important, but typically we see higher value on directing.
But, I see the camera such as 5D2 is really a bench mark camera for photographers, more than the Red, because red still work like a movie camera.  Because camera like 5D2 with its latest firmware is the first true professional device that allow the still photographer to try to learn motion picture, be the master, rather than taking cues from directors, cut and roll as directed.  Already happen in the industries, the still is a smaller part (and was always smaller) of TVC or movie, less and less shot made in still studio, and photographer asked to come to the set to snap between the production - yes, not for those high budget assignments, but most of today's assignment when compares to past is all budget limited.  
And for the bring part of all these happening, photographer today is in fact given better change to really perform his roll as photographer to bridge the still and motion, with tools never available before. We just have to make a decision.

Regards, K
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