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Author Topic: canon ipf 5100 dismay  (Read 5683 times)
tcpmanager
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« on: June 30, 2009, 03:01:45 PM »
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Just purchased a Canon IPF 5100 , I already own  a Pictography 4500 and a HP Z3100 wide format. The Fuji is excellent and to be honest so is the HP but I feel let down by the Canon. it just doesn’t have the right stuff or I am not setting it up right . I am printing out of Adobe CS4 ,and LightRoom . I have used the Spider to calibrate all and create a profile for printing ad the colors are always off just a little , I was told that the Canon was just what I wanted but now I am starting to think I went the wrong way can any one give me some idea of what I might be doing wrong , I have even contacted Canon and they want me to send them prints and files so they can compare .  
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LPJay
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« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2009, 07:40:54 PM »
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Quote from: tcpmanager
Just purchased a Canon IPF 5100 , I already own  a Pictography 4500 and a HP Z3100 wide format. The Fuji is excellent and to be honest so is the HP but I feel let down by the Canon. it just doesn’t have the right stuff or I am not setting it up right . I am printing out of Adobe CS4 ,and LightRoom . I have used the Spider to calibrate all and create a profile for printing ad the colors are always off just a little , I was told that the Canon was just what I wanted but now I am starting to think I went the wrong way can any one give me some idea of what I might be doing wrong , I have even contacted Canon and they want me to send them prints and files so they can compare .  

You might want to post your query to the iPF wiki, http://canonipf.wikispaces.com/

I have an iPF-5000. I calibrate monitors with Coloreyes Display Pro. I'm using Photoshop CS3 on a Mac, and print using the PS plug-in. I find color matching to be excellent.

  --Jay
  www.lumen-perfectus.com
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mcmorrison
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« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2009, 08:14:18 AM »
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Hello,

It is hard to know without being on site, but the quality of the profile is critical. I have a 5000 and an 8100, and I have worked through a number of profiles for each. The better the profile, the better the print. I find that the printers are extremely capable and can produce outstanding prints if given a quality profile.

Best,

Michael Morrison
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marcmccalmont
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« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2009, 10:31:05 AM »
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Quote from: tcpmanager
Just purchased a Canon IPF 5100 , I already own  a Pictography 4500 and a HP Z3100 wide format. The Fuji is excellent and to be honest so is the HP but I feel let down by the Canon. it just doesn’t have the right stuff or I am not setting it up right . I am printing out of Adobe CS4 ,and LightRoom . I have used the Spider to calibrate all and create a profile for printing ad the colors are always off just a little , I was told that the Canon was just what I wanted but now I am starting to think I went the wrong way can any one give me some idea of what I might be doing wrong , I have even contacted Canon and they want me to send them prints and files so they can compare .  

Are you using the 16 bit plugin? it is superior to other drivers on my iPF5000. If installed it is under the file/export pulldown menu. try that first.
Marc
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Marc McCalmont
Scott Martin
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« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2009, 10:54:45 AM »
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Sounds like it's the profiles you are unhappy with, not the printer itself.
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tcpmanager
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« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2009, 12:47:00 PM »
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not sure about the 16 bit plug in , i just go to file ,print and then grab my profile for te canon .
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Scott Martin
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« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2009, 02:00:05 PM »
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If you haven't tried the plug-in you really should at it offers several advantages over the traditional printing method, including simplified color management. If you are printing from Photoshop you might as well use the plug-in.
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tcpmanager
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« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2009, 02:33:50 PM »
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i dont want to sound stupid , it may be to late for that but how exactly do i go about using the plug in ,is this something that comes standerd with photoshop? i realize profile is everything with printing aside from creating one through spider software and the ones canon gives you how else can i get profiles?
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Scott Martin
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« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2009, 03:25:02 PM »
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Quote from: tcpmanager
i dont want to sound stupid , it may be to late for that but how exactly do i go about using the plug in ,is this something that comes standerd with photoshop?
You can download the plug-in from Canon's website and install it yourself.

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controll...ownloadIndexAct

Quote from: tcpmanager
i realize profile is everything with printing aside from creating one through spider software and the ones canon gives you how else can i get profiles?
Remote profiling services are a great way to have high quality custom profiles made for your printer. Perform a web search for more info. Be sure to calibrate your 5100 prior to profiling if you haven't already! Also, the Canon iPF wiki has a lot of great info at http://canonipf.wikispaces.com/
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Wayne Fox
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« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2009, 05:47:20 PM »
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Quote from: tcpmanager
i dont want to sound stupid , it may be to late for that but how exactly do i go about using the plug in ,is this something that comes standerd with photoshop? i realize profile is everything with printing aside from creating one through spider software and the ones canon gives you how else can i get profiles?

The plugin is great and I also recommend it, but I"m not sure it will help your current situation.   If the output quality is that bad, I can think of few things.

1.  Something is whacked in your system. You didn't say which OS you were using but both OS X and Windows have been known to cause problems with system or driver corruptions ... not very likely but possible.  I also believe there were some major issues with 5100's and Leopard, if you happen to be using a Mac.  Probably some good info in the Canon wiki about this if it applies.
2.  An error in your workflow.  The Canon workflow really isn't much different than your other printers, except for the huge number of media choices it gives you.  One problem that is quite common is not knowing how to actually turn printer color management completely off.  I'm not sure if recent Canon drivers have improved this, but this is buried 3 dialog boxes deep.  The plug-in helps avoid this problem.
3.  Wrong(which is actually a workflow problem), bad or corrupt profiles.  If you are using canned profiles for Canon media, they should work pretty good.  Even 3rd party profiles for this printer should result in decent prints.  
4.  As I mentioned what can be problematic with the canon is the huge number of media choices built into the printer ... there are so many it can get confusing, and the wrong setting can yield pretty bad results.
5.  A problem with the printer.  Canon's are very good about compensating for problems but there can be issues.  Be aware that this is a possibility.  The Canon wiki has information on how to verify things are working like they should.

I just had a friend that fought through some similar issues with an ipf6100.  He finally bought Canon media and used Canon profiles everything was great. I"m now building him new profiles for his non-Canon media choices.

All in all you should be delighted with the output from this printer because it is very good.  I haven't had a chance to work with a z3200 yet (looking forward to it), but the 5100 should yield comparable quality output.
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Clearair
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« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2009, 05:30:31 AM »
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Quote from: tcpmanager
Just purchased a Canon IPF 5100 , I already own  a Pictography 4500 and a HP Z3100 wide format. The Fuji is excellent and to be honest so is the HP but I feel let down by the Canon. it just doesn’t have the right stuff or I am not setting it up right . I am printing out of Adobe CS4 ,and LightRoom . I have used the Spider to calibrate all and create a profile for printing ad the colors are always off just a little , I was told that the Canon was just what I wanted but now I am starting to think I went the wrong way can any one give me some idea of what I might be doing wrong , I have even contacted Canon and they want me to send them prints and files so they can compare .  


As has been said, use of the PS plug in can help speed up successful use of these printers. This is my first large format printer, a 6100, and I took the precaution of ordering from a local supplier who promised, and delivered on the promise, support.
This support extends to profiles created on any media purchased through them and emailed to me if not already available. Business hours phone support. Install and set up. All included in the inital cost which was very competative compared to others in the UK. Canon reps also phoned me on four occasions to give advise and monitor my progress!

I think your first problem was a lack of knowledge about the software solutions available with these Canon printers. This is understandable and you are not the first to post here unaware of the plug in. This is where the user manuals and printed materials that come with the printer are lacking. It just wobbles on about the standard route to printing, probably because not everyone has PS. Why Canon does not have a seperate booklet on the plug in and the use of the other software solutions that DO come on the discs with these machines escapes me.

I was aware of the plug in from a review years ago on the PRO 9500 series. It is one of the reasons for buying the printer. I did question at the time WHY manufacturers can't include a tutorial DVD with their products for slow people like me, ha ha.

I believe the tutorials that some software like PS plug in manufacturers have on their websites are excellent and the way to go for the rest of the photo industry. Where this would leave forums like this I don't know, maybe on a higher plain.

I use mainly non Canon papers as they are more readily available. The onsite profiles work well if you have no access to dedicated profiles at present, do adjust for media types. The Hahnemuhle site has the necessary info on it's papers as an example.

I run Leopard, PS3, Mac Pro Intel duel core and Eizo calibrated monitor using Eizo software and x-rite.

You should always check that supplied drivers are up to date after opening the box BEFORE install. This can solve a lot of disappointments.

I had the printer up, calibrated, drivers updated and installed ready for the supplier to run a few test prints when he arrived allowing time for me to be shown a few hints on using the machine.

Everything works.

You have a good product.



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trevorn
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« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2009, 07:23:57 PM »
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tcpmanager,

I have noticed that nobody has asked about 'calibration' of the printer as part of the initial setup.

The initial startup of the printer, although prompting for installing heads, inks etc, does not prompt for the calibration to be done.

This calibration brings the printer to a known 'standard' which should provide very little variation between IPFx100 printers.

See http://canonipf.wikispaces.com/message/view/FAQ/12791457

Did you do this step ?

Trevor
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marcmccalmont
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« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2009, 10:21:02 PM »
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Sorry for the delayed answer
Once the 16bit plugin is installed it is found under File/export /iPF5100
Do calibrate your printer
Purchase one profile (Cathy's Profiles) for your favorite paper and then you can compare your profiles to a known.
BTW it took me a month to sort things out on my iPF5000 but it was well worth the effort
Marc
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Marc McCalmont
tcpmanager
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« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2009, 08:28:02 AM »
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Canon had me calibrate and no change ! I do realize profiles are everything and that’s exactly why I spent so much time initially with the spider software which seemed to work very well with the other printers. I have created all the profiles for each printer .There has been very few times I have used Canons profiles. This IPF 5100 replaced an Epson Stylus pro 4000 which printed just like the other two printers. (By the way my OS- is windows.) I was ok with the Epson it really did a great job but its repairs exceeded its value. So it ad to go I just expected the same out of the Canon.
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marcmccalmont
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« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2009, 10:39:23 AM »
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Quote from: tcpmanager
Canon had me calibrate and no change ! I do realize profiles are everything and that’s exactly why I spent so much time initially with the spider software which seemed to work very well with the other printers. I have created all the profiles for each printer .There has been very few times I have used Canons profiles. This IPF 5100 replaced an Epson Stylus pro 4000 which printed just like the other two printers. (By the way my OS- is windows.) I was ok with the Epson it really did a great job but its repairs exceeded its value. So it ad to go I just expected the same out of the Canon.
Have you loaded the 16 bit driver?
Marc
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Marc McCalmont
tcpmanager
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« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2009, 12:21:06 PM »
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haven’t loaded the 16 bit driver and I will be out of town this weekend but Monday I will load that driver and see how tat goes I will let you know . Also I want to tank every one for throwing me some bones I really appreciate the input –have a good weekend ..
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tcpmanager
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« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2009, 01:52:11 PM »
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While going through Photoshop I noticed my images are in 8 bit, but I gives you an option to change to 16 or even 32 bit besides this bit rate changing my files to larger files does it really matter what this is set to ,and also I see there are many plug-ins for photographers -which ones are the best or should a person try to get them all ?, and lastly I presently have the spider 2 for my calibrating and printer profiling –I am considering buying the new spider calibration stuff , is there anything better then the spider? , My monitor is a NEC 2690 and it comes with its own calibrating tools and software , its all hurting my brain at this point ….  
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milt
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« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2009, 11:40:28 PM »
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Sorry to introduce a new variable when your brain is already hurting, but ...

There was a post on the ipf wiki recently that said that while calibration is necessary, the paper you use when you calibrate affects the results enough that you need to pay attention to the issue.  Maybe the paper you used to do the calibration was enough different than what others use that you get different results when you use standard profiles.

--Milt--
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marcmccalmont
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« Reply #18 on: July 04, 2009, 12:30:23 AM »
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Quote from: tcpmanager
While going through Photoshop I noticed my images are in 8 bit, but I gives you an option to change to 16 or even 32 bit besides this bit rate changing my files to larger files does it really matter what this is set to ,and also I see there are many plug-ins for photographers -which ones are the best or should a person try to get them all ?, and lastly I presently have the spider 2 for my calibrating and printer profiling –I am considering buying the new spider calibration stuff , is there anything better then the spider? , My monitor is a NEC 2690 and it comes with its own calibrating tools and software , its all hurting my brain at this point ….  
I would not convert your existing files to 16 bits, it would serve no purpose. I use a 16 bit workflow and you can see a difference there. Set your RAW converter to output a 16 bit file, post process it in 16 bits, then send the 16 bit file to the iPF5100 via the 16 bit plug in. The difference will be very noticeable. If you are working with 8 bit Jpegs it won't make a difference.
The only 3 plugins that I use on a regular basis are:
Focus Fixer (for sharpening) settings between .5 and .9
Noiseware Professional (when noise reduction is warranted) weaker noise setting
Canon 16 bit print plugin high accuracy 600dpi, highest gradation 16 bit, 2400x1200 16 pass, set configuration; sharpening 0, image enlargement bicubic
Marc
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Marc McCalmont
Clearair
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« Reply #19 on: July 04, 2009, 02:14:39 AM »
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Quote from: milt
Sorry to introduce a new variable when your brain is already hurting, but ...

There was a post on the ipf wiki recently that said that while calibration is necessary, the paper you use when you calibrate affects the results enough that you need to pay attention to the issue.  Maybe the paper you used to do the calibration was enough different than what others use that you get different results when you use standard profiles.

--Milt--



My iPF6100 was supplied with proofing paper to work to a standard in printer calibration and some Canon paper for initial use. Both are on a roll.
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