Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: [1] 2 »   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: Interesting talk with Epson regarding 9900  (Read 7037 times)
mikev1
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 135


« on: July 02, 2009, 02:06:52 PM »
ReplyReply

I thought this might be of interest to those 7900/9900 owners struggling with cleaning cycles being triggered even with ANC turned off.  Epson preferred support is sending me a firmware update via email that will supposedly once and for all turn off all cleaning cycles, meaning that I will be responsible for running the cleaning myself which is kind of how I want it.

This firmware update is not available on the website.  She said it is only being handed out on a  case by case basis.

Anyone else with this issue might want to call Epson.

Forgot to add that is for PC only
« Last Edit: July 02, 2009, 02:11:01 PM by mikev1 » Logged
pindman
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 191


« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2009, 02:15:35 PM »
ReplyReply

Thanks for the update.  Please keep it posted and let us know how it works.

Paul

Quote from: mikev1
I thought this might be of interest to those 7900/9900 owners struggling with cleaning cycles being triggered even with ANC turned off.  Epson preferred support is sending me a firmware update via email that will supposedly once and for all turn off all cleaning cycles, meaning that I will be responsible for running the cleaning myself which is kind of how I want it.

This firmware update is not available on the website.  She said it is only being handed out on a  case by case basis.

Anyone else with this issue might want to call Epson.

Forgot to add that is for PC only
Logged
fjmcsu
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 38


« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2009, 02:25:52 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: pindman
Thanks for the update.  Please keep it posted and let us know how it works.

Paul

I'd rather have the software as promised that will make the printer work as advertised!
Logged
Guigui
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 89



WWW
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2009, 03:12:55 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: mikev1
This firmware update is not available on the website.  She said it is only being handed out on a  case by case basis.

I don't see why they would do such a thing. I hope she meant "not yet available".
Logged
Wayne Fox
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2955



WWW
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2009, 05:41:51 PM »
ReplyReply

This was mentioned to me as well, the problem is any future firmware updates will remove it, unless Epson decides to make it a standard feature (which they should).

Using service mode cleans you can actually get control of the process even better, since in service mode you have 4 different basic cleaning options which are gradually more aggressive.  The least aggressive clean uses less ink than the standard clean does in regular mode, ANC is not used in the service mode cleans so a defective ANC unit will not trigger unnecessary cleans like it does in regular mode (which is what this firmware update offers).

I have yet to have the lowest service mode clean (CL1) fail to restore all nozzles, and I've done it 8 or 9 times now.

I am still baffled why so many are having so much trouble and yet many seem to be just find.  Something is amiss here ... whatever problem is needs to be isolated and resolved, and the ANC unit needs to be redesigned so it is reliable and then replaced in every unit.  Why should we have to disable this feature ... it really should work as advertised.

I have had to clean this second 7900 10 times now in the first 3 weeks - that's 10 times out of 15 startups .  The ANC seems to be flakey on it, but using service mode cleans I'm able to clean only affected channels without triggering a full clean ... requiring only about 2ml of ink per channel.  It seems that fewer nozzles are clogged on startup and I've had a couple of days where none were clogged, so it seems to be improving.  Fingers crossed the printer will be similar to some others where after a period of time it seemed to stabilize and clog much less.
Logged

fjmcsu
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 38


« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2009, 09:40:42 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: Wayne Fox
I am still baffled why so many are having so much trouble and yet many seem to be just find.  Something is amiss here ... whatever problem is needs to be isolated and resolved, and the ANC unit needs to be redesigned so it is reliable and then replaced in every unit.  Why should we have to disable this feature ... it really should work as advertised.

ditto couldn't have stated it better;isn't there supposed to be a firmware upgrade"soon". By now Epson should have made a significant amount of cash from the wasted ink replacement cartridge sales to allow them to design a fix!
Logged
snickgrr
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 270


WWW
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2009, 11:10:43 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: Wayne Fox
I am still baffled why so many are having so much trouble and yet many seem to be just find.  Something is amiss here ... whatever problem is needs to be isolated and resolved, and the ANC unit needs to be redesigned so it is reliable and then replaced in every unit.  Why should we have to disable this feature ... it really should work as advertised.


Me too.  There is something bigger going on with these printers.  

In the automobile industry even though the development mules may rack up a million miles of driving...in the desert...in the frozen North...under super high electrical voltage lines, it's often not until the consumers get a hold of a model to find the faults in the engineering and mis-designs.  And this is when they issue a recall to fix the problem.  

Of course that recall normally doesn't take place until a class action suit or the bean counters at the company figure it might be economical to fix the problem then it would be paying the lawsuits.

Logged
Philipp
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 3


« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2009, 12:06:17 PM »
ReplyReply

Hi all,
I am new to this forum but I own a 7900 printer since february and keep having almost the same problems as you have. I am from Austria, Europe, so the problems seem to be independent from any factory - target market - or what ever issue.

My 7900 has ANC turned off and kept making cleanings almost randomly. Some days I could print without any troubles and on other days the printer made cleaning before every second printjob. I had talks to Epson Germany and there Austrian Support Company, no one had a clue, all told me to turn ANC off but it was turned off.
Then about four weeks ago I did a Firmwareupdate to 2793 (I hope I remember the number correctly) and the random cleanings dissappeared. I still had the described problems with manually cleanings of ink-pairs that cleans the whole had and wastes a lot of ink. So when today my Epson driver reported a new Firmwareupdate I didn't wait to install it.
Now version 2995 is active and my printer now makes a full cleaning before EVERY printjob. After updating I checked the menu, ANC was still off, made manuall nozzle prints, all clean and the sent the first printjob. The printer displayed "auto nozzle check please wait" then switched to "cleaning" and wasted 20ml ink. After the printjob (a small testprint that took 0.5ml ink), I sent another testprintjob (I was trying to get more contrast in the shadows of an image), again the printer displayed "cleaning" and again wasted ink before starting to print the job. After I adjusted my settings in photoshop according to the two testprints I started the real print, again with an unwanted cleaning.

I then called Epson support again, told them that a 5ml print had just cost me 40ml of ink for cleanings, again they didn't know anything about any problem concering cleanings, ANC or anything else. Currently Epson seems to be thinking about the problem, because the called me back twice to ask me which media brand I was using (of course Epson) or if I would let my printer be powered on all the time (which they do not recommend, but I'm not doing that anyway) and if I just had switched from PK to MK because then the printer is supposed to do a full cleaning (another thing that I just can't understand, that Epson again cleans the whole had insted of just the black ink heads) but I had not switched inks since a while.

Somehow it seems Epson (Europe) has no clue about these issues! Even though the printresults are excellent I sometimes think I'd better bought two Canon 6100 for the money of one Epson 7900 Spectroproofer. Summing up the last months I have amost spend $ 300 ink in unwanted cleaning, which makes me almost mad...

Has anybody else tried the new Firmware yet or had simmilar random cleaning problems?
« Last Edit: July 10, 2009, 12:10:47 PM by Philipp » Logged
Guigui
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 89



WWW
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2009, 05:35:51 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: Philipp
Somehow it seems Epson (Europe) has no clue about these issues!
I was fearing this since I'm in France and haven't tried calling Epson tech support yet. I don't know if there is a big difference between Epson German support and the French one...they probably won't be any help either.

I'll probably give them a call next week though, just to hear what they have to say on this issue. Will keep you updated if they have any clue on the situation.
Logged
Phil Indeblanc
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1214


« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2009, 07:29:09 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: snickgrr
Of course that recall normally doesn't take place until a class action suit or the bean counters at the company figure it might be economical to fix the problem then it would be paying the lawsuits.


What they don't see is that these forums have a trickle down effect that spreads faster than a dry brush fire. When an issue is not handled in the proactive manner, you end up having a bunch of guys jump ship and purchase other brands.  By the time it is a lawsuit, I would swear off the brand, until they have changed the entire attitude of the company to customer relation....(A bit like GM I guess).

Logged

If you buy a camera, you're a photographer...
fjmcsu
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 38


« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2009, 11:07:25 PM »
ReplyReply

I have not seen any recent updates for firmware since the last posted on one in April. One month with the machine still gives random clogs particularly in yellow nozzles, but are cleared with a manual cleaning. Fortunately my machine only cleans when I tell it too- a small but significant consolation! I guess the rank & file seem to get the bad apples & the reviewers get the good ones! How else does one explain the paucity  of negative reviews on this subject?
Logged
Schewe
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5542


WWW
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2009, 01:47:45 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: fjmcsu
I guess the rank & file seem to get the bad apples & the reviewers get the good ones! How else does one explain the paucity  of negative reviews on this subject?

You think there's some vast right (or left) wing conspiracy on the 79/9900 reviews? Horseshit bud...I guess you haven't read this thread.

The fact is that most people are not having problems...if they were you would see forums all over the net screaming bloody murder. You don't see that, right?

I don't dispute for a minute that some people may have gotten lemons and made their situation known here on LuLa. I also think the problems seem blown way out of proportion because a few people have had VERY serious problems (and spend a lot of time posting here about them) Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't HP and Canon also get pretty dinged (I remember something about Michael being shocked that his print heads on an IP5000 Canon printer was going to require $1,200 worth of replacement heads) and I think the 3200 was in large measure a response to a lot of problems with the 3100)

I think you're sitting around here reading about a minority of users' problems and presuming a far wider set of issues that reality suggests.

I feel for the users that have had problems...I wish there was something I could do for them. I haven't had the problems some others have. Lucky me. But unless YOU have a friggin' 79/9900 printer that you're having major problems with, ya might just want to keep your opinions to yourself–unless you got something the least bit useful and factual to say on the subject that might actually HELP somebody, you got anything helpful to say to the people with problems?.

Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one, some are more useful than others...

...and yeah, your implication that somehow Michael or heaven forbid, myself or other unnamed "reviewers" might be in cohoots to somehow minimize this problem rankles...
Logged
enduser
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 278


« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2009, 02:48:02 AM »
ReplyReply

Thanks for the language and well thought-out response.  The guys posting are needing help, not ranting!
Logged
fjmcsu
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 38


« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2009, 10:42:36 AM »
ReplyReply

I have had many Epsons including a 7900 now. I said there was a paucity of news regarding the nozzle problem & wonder why. Perhaps this problem is isolated perhaps not.It seems that more than a few people have had the problem. Before buying the machine, I tried to read as much as possible review-wise & didn't get the feeling there was any major issues. Perhaps the issue I have & others have is isolated.  Perhaps a problem like this requires many users to fall out.At any rate I will continue to try & keep my machine working as I do like the output, but again at what cost!I have worked with 7500's & 7600's & just don't recall this type of early problems(maybe again I was on the lucky side there-with the good apples)-that is what makes this situation so surprising.Thanks
Logged
mikev1
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 135


« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2009, 10:44:37 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: Schewe
I don't dispute for a minute that some people may have gotten lemons and made their situation known here on LuLa. I also think the problems seem blown way out of proportion because a few people have had VERY serious problems (and spend a lot of time posting here about them) Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't HP and Canon also get pretty dinged (I remember something about Michael being shocked that his print heads on an IP5000 Canon printer was going to require $1,200 worth of replacement heads) and I think the 3200 was in large measure a response to a lot of problems with the 3100)

I think you're sitting around here reading about a minority of users' problems and presuming a far wider set of issues that reality suggests.

I feel for the users that have had problems...I wish there was something I could do for them. I haven't had the problems some others have. Lucky me. But unless YOU have a friggin' 79/9900 printer that you're having major problems with, ya might just want to keep your opinions to yourself–unless you got something the least bit useful and factual to say on the subject that might actually HELP somebody, you got anything helpful to say to the people with problems?.

Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one, some are more useful than others...

...and yeah, your implication that somehow Michael or heaven forbid, myself or other unnamed "reviewers" might be in cohoots to somehow minimize this problem rankles...

The reason why I post online when I have problems with equipment is to see who else might be suffering the same issues.  This gives me a little more ammo when going back to the manufacturer as most times they try to assure you that you are the only person in the world having these issues.

A good example is the Xbox 360 for a couple of years Microsoft publicly denied there were any issues with the 360 right up until the point they took a $1 BILLION charge to account for all the issues they were having with the machine.  This might be the worst consumer electronics device ever produced.  Independent reports put the failure rate at around 25% to 60% of the first revision of the product.  Without the internet Microsoft might have taken even longer to address these issues if at all.

Another example is the SPOT SATELLITE MESSENGER.  And this is a far more serious issue as people put their life in the hands of this piece of junk.  The product only works sporadically and in very narrow range of conditions making it a toy and not the life saving device they make it out to be.  Take a look at qualified online user reports for this.  Overwhelmingly negative.

I actually believe EPSON has made a quality product, there is no denying the output is fantastic.  Most likely there is only a small percentage of us that are having problems and I'm confident EPSON will work out most of the problems via firmware.  

The fact that the majority of users are not having problems is not really a good defense of a product.  Would you buy a product where 51% of the time it is a good user experience? 75%? 85%? 95%?  I probably would at 95%.  And we might be at that point or even higher.  This little paragraph is not aimed at you but just a general response to all the times I read either "Mine works, so you must be doing something wrong" or "Most people are happy with this product".  There used to be an ad on the transit I used to take to work downtown for a engineering company that stated that 80% of their customers would recommend or use them again.  It always made me laugh as they basically were saying 20% of our customers were not happy with their services.

I installed the firmware EPSON sent me and so far I have not had these massive cleanings triggered that I had before when changing between inks.  Dumping 30 ml's on a switch between the black inks is not acceptable to me especially when the manual states otherwise.  These big cleanings were triggered about 80% of the time and it didn't matter if I had just printed 10 sq/ft or 80 sq/ft in a day using either PK or MK.  Oh and I should add that I keep the machine in a temperature and humidity controlled environment.   I print on this thing about 4 or 5 days a week and print anywhere between 5 sq/ft to around 80 sq/ft depending on customer orders and my own personal use(which is pretty small).

Jeff, I know your comment was directed at the poster that you quoted but let me just add that Michael's reviews and your reviews and expertise are held in high regard by probably 99% of the people out there.  I for one don't believe in conspiracies.


Ah what am I doing I need to get to Floe Lake and the fabulous Rockwall http://www.flickr.com/photos/patrickcadieux/139157641/ (not my photo) hopefully I will get some pictures that are worthy of the mighty EPSON 9900.  And I will not be taking the SPOT GPS product with me on my back country adventures, rather the highly recommended ACR Microfix PLB.


Logged
Schewe
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5542


WWW
« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2009, 01:19:46 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: fjmcsu
I said there was a paucity of news regarding the nozzle problem & wonder why.


No, you didn't...you said  I guess the rank & file seem to get the bad apples & the reviewers get the good ones!

If you had stuck to saying there wasn't a lot of news on the subject, that would have been one thing. But no, you wanted to throw in a zinger. You implied that the reviewers didn't give bad reviews because they got cherry-picked printers or that the reviewers were in cahoots to keep problems unreported. That kinda crap doesn't help the situation at all. I still, by my count see about 7-8 people here who have had serious and repeatable problems with varying degrees of success (or lack) dealing with Epson or their dealer. I've heard of 2 people who've had their printers swapped out. I believe in both cases there was an improvement (although in one case some other issues cropped up). But this is only "forum" reports which are predisposed to from from disgruntled users as apposed to satisfied users. Pretty hard to make any determination about the relative percent of people in the marketplace who are having problems...
Logged
Wayne Fox
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2955



WWW
« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2009, 10:15:04 PM »
ReplyReply

To believe that Jeff and Michael got "special" treatment and were shipped "good" printers defies any logic whatsoever.

Just like everyone else, they received a printer with no ink in it, shoved in the ink cartridges and started it just like everyone else. I can't imagine any method Epson could use to determine if a printer is problematic other than filling it up with ink and trying it.   It really isn't even a coincidence Michael and Jeff's printers aren't problematic, since the majority of them seem to be fine.  

My second printer is performing much better than my first.  It appears the ANC circuitry is actually pretty reliable.  Head clogs are significantly more frequent than my 11880, but much better than the first printer, and they seem to be getting better the more I use the machine.  For the past 10 days or so I have only had one color clogged on startup (usually the yellow) about 50% of the time, and I have been using the standard single channel clean instead of service mode.  So far the printer hasn't initiated an unnecessary clean from a faulty ANC function.  I'm knocking on wood as I speak, but last week I had clogged yellow on Monday, and no clogs at all the rest of the week.  

I'm not even sure this is a printer problem ... for all I know there is an issue with ink cartridge pressures.  Heck, it could even be a combination of things they've never thought of ... maybe running the printers at altitude messes up some pressures.  The nozzle tests I print that show clogs look very unusual to me ... much different than any of the 10 or so Epson printers I have used over the past several years.  They certainly don't look like "clogs", so I still believe there is an underlying issue that I hope Epson is looking into.

I am concerned Epson might believe the problem is so sporadic and rare they are just anomalies.  I know two other owners who thought their printers were doing great, but after talking with them they really aren't.  I also talked to or received email from several users who don't actually post on forums that are struggling.  While I think most of these printers may be doing fine, I also think there are more problematic ones than Epson realizes.

But the quality of the output from my p45+ files is so fantastic that even if this is the best the printer ever gets for me (clearing a channel or two once or twice a week on startup) I certainly won't revert back to my other printers.
Logged

Schewe
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5542


WWW
« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2009, 10:38:23 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: Wayne Fox
I am concerned Epson might believe the problem is so sporadic and rare they are just anomalies.

No, I know for a fact Epson USA is taking the issue of apparent clogs (because I'm also not sure they _ARE_ clogs) and the inability with the current officially released firmware to be able to done color pairs cleaning without kicking in a general clean. As for Epson offices elsewhere in the world, couldn't say other than if Epson USA finds serious problems, Seiko-Epson Japan will take the guys here very seriously.

And while people generally like to presume that Epson is just Epson regardless of where in the world they are, sorry, no. Epson USA has a much better track record in trying to resolve issues and provide pro level tech support.
Logged
BernardLanguillier
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8386



WWW
« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2009, 11:46:40 PM »
ReplyReply

I have a 9900 on order here in Tokyo.hope not to suffer from the issue, but if I do will let you know what Epsom japan has to say about this.
Logged

A few images online here!
Wayne Fox
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2955



WWW
« Reply #19 on: July 12, 2009, 01:37:23 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: Schewe
No, I know for a fact Epson USA is taking the issue of apparent clogs (because I'm also not sure they _ARE_ clogs) and the inability with the current officially released firmware to be able to done color pairs cleaning without kicking in a general clean. As for Epson offices elsewhere in the world, couldn't say other than if Epson USA finds serious problems, Seiko-Epson Japan will take the guys here very seriously.

I appreciate you sharing this.

Quote
And while people generally like to presume that Epson is just Epson regardless of where in the world they are, sorry, no. Epson USA has a much better track record in trying to resolve issues and provide pro level tech support.

EpsonUSA has been stellar in their treatment of me and has worked very hard to help my resolve my 7900 issues.  Never once have they questioned or doubted my issues nor have they ever tried to blame "user" error for the problem.  Truly outstanding.
Logged

Pages: [1] 2 »   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad