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Author Topic: Interesting talk with Epson regarding 9900  (Read 6608 times)
snickgrr
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« Reply #20 on: July 12, 2009, 02:14:04 PM »
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Quote from: Wayne Fox
EpsonUSA has been stellar in their treatment of me and has worked very hard to help my resolve my 7900 issues.  Never once have they questioned or doubted my issues nor have they ever tried to blame "user" error for the problem.  Truly outstanding.


I'll second that.  So far excellent customer service. Service was provided ultra quickly without any hesitation on their part.  The tech that was sent, although just a hired third party provider, went above and beyond trying to resolve the issues.
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fjmcsu
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« Reply #21 on: July 13, 2009, 08:31:18 PM »
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Jeff,
Mea culpa for the zinger .It was meant more in jest (the exclamation point )than seriousness, as my main complaint was the little news regarding the ANC problems which were apparently solved with this machine but not mine & apparently others too. As stated I read reviews & not forums. I didn't find out about the same issues till starting the machine up, etc. Appreciate your point of view though. I am NOT ino conspiracy theories although I live awfully close to Roswel !!(same state anyway)
.
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Schewe
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« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2009, 02:19:04 AM »
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Quote from: fjmcsu
I am NOT ino conspiracy theories although I live awfully close to Roswel !!(same state anyway)

Been to Roswel, not much reason to go back (the Alien museums were closing or for sale) and been to White Sands (but note Area 51 yet-that I know of).

The main point is that as far as I can tell, most of the problems outlined here have been because of an overactive (and over-sensitive) ANC which Epson tweaked way high because they had been trying real hard to squash clogging issues. Some may say they may have gone just a bit overboard...clearly when the darn printer wants to check itself before almost every darn print and is senses even a tiny "clog" and proceeds to cleaning itself, that ain't good. The problem is figuring out if the cleaning is caused by a real clog of some sort of sensor error. Remember the self-cleaning in these machines relies upon sensors near the parked print head that ay or may nor work really good–I don't know. All I know is that my printer wanted to clean itself about as often as my cat and that was too often.

Then we have a separate (I think) situation where a couple of people here seem to have gotten lemons. Wayne got his machine replaced and sure that's a pain in the arce...but it's better than not getting a replacement and being left sucking wind.

So, all I can say is that Epson US is aware...looking at the issues and trying to respond via the pro level tech support. I accept the fact that you didn't mean anything personal.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2009, 02:19:43 AM by Schewe » Logged
mikev1
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« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2009, 04:49:51 PM »
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Just a follow up to my original post.  I installed the "special" firmware that Epson sent me and while I thought it had solved the problem, it appears that a cleaning cycle is being triggered most times on a switch from one black ink to the other.

I called Epson today and got a different story, apparently it is not unusual for a switch in inks to trigger a cleaning cycle and to consume 15-30 ml's of ink.  When I mentioned that the manual states 1-3 ml's (or something like that) of ink would be consumed the rep I was talking to said "We can't control what the marketing people write".  I wasn't aware that marketing people write manuals.

I was told that there was no solution to this problem and that is just the way it is.

This might drive me to purchase a second unit and dedicate it to each one to a particular black ink.  This might seem crazy to some but it will be economical in the long run.  Plus the less I have to change rolls the better (though it is pretty easy, it just gets old doing it several times a day) and I am getting close to the volume to justify a second printer.  The output is fantastic,  I'd say probably 60% or more of my customers take the time to email me saying how thrilled they are with their prints.  I'd say that is a good testament to how good these printers are as how often do people write or call to say how happy they are.  More often than not you only hear from people when they aren't happy (kind of like me right now I guess).

I should note that I try to keep the switching to a minimum and I do group orders together.  It's not like I'm printing (1) 12x18 and then switching back.  I just printed 40 sq ft with the photo black and 64 sq ft with the matte black.

I suppose it is possible that there is something during the switching process that can cause a clog or some other problem that triggers this.

Mike
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Wayne Fox
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« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2009, 06:15:39 PM »
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Quote from: mikev1
Just a follow up to my original post.  I installed the "special" firmware that Epson sent me and while I thought it had solved the problem, it appears that a cleaning cycle is being triggered most times on a switch from one black ink to the other.

I called Epson today and got a different story, apparently it is not unusual for a switch in inks to trigger a cleaning cycle and to consume 15-30 ml's of ink.  When I mentioned that the manual states 1-3 ml's (or something like that) of ink would be consumed the rep I was talking to said "We can't control what the marketing people write".  I wasn't aware that marketing people write manuals.

I was told that there was no solution to this problem and that is just the way it is.

I would verify your ANC circuitry is working, and if not ask them to fix it under warranty.  Disabling ANC at their request is not a permanent solution and they shouldn't expect it to be (especially because you can't disable it anyway).  It sounds like the firmware is performing an ANC during the ink switch ... there is no other reason a cleaning would start.  I find it very hard to believe clogging from an ink switch is normal. They certainly should be willing to fix the ANC so it is at least somewhat reliable.  It can work and work well.  My replacement 7900 has only had one issue with a failed ANC on the 2nd day, and I've had ANC checking with every print and no false cleanings for a couple of months now.

The statement about what the marketing people write is pretty lame and this doesn't sound like any conversation I have had with Epson.  You are right, this is a statement from the user manual and should be a reasonable expectation to use only about 4 to 5ml for the round trip of PK/MK/PK.
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snickgrr
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« Reply #25 on: August 06, 2009, 06:28:17 PM »
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Quote from: mikev1
Just a follow up to my original post.  I installed the "special" firmware that Epson sent me and while I thought it had solved the problem, it appears that a cleaning cycle is being triggered most times on a switch from one black ink to the other.

I called Epson today and got a different story, apparently it is not unusual for a switch in inks to trigger a cleaning cycle and to consume 15-30 ml's of ink.  When I mentioned that the manual states 1-3 ml's (or something like that) of ink would be consumed the rep I was talking to said "We can't control what the marketing people write".  I wasn't aware that marketing people write manuals.


Mike


I just did a black ink switch today after a couple months of using matte.  A nozzle check print before revealed a very small block in one channel.  The switch triggered a clean...and then another clean at which point it said it failed and would I like to try again.  A nozzle check at that point showed a perfect pattern.

This is with ANC disabled AND with the latest firmware installed last week.
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Wayne Fox
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« Reply #26 on: August 07, 2009, 12:07:58 AM »
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Quote from: snickgrr
I just did a black ink switch today after a couple months of using matte.  A nozzle check print before revealed a very small block in one channel.  The switch triggered a clean...and then another clean at which point it said it failed and would I like to try again.  A nozzle check at that point showed a perfect pattern.

This is with ANC disabled AND with the latest firmware installed last week.

You cannot "disable" ANC.  This is an assumption being made by many but is incorrect.  If you look carefully at the menu choices you will see all this is setting is the ANC function during printing ...  all you can do is disable ANC being performed between prints. The printer itself always performs a nozzle check after any cleaning cycle you start, and apparently any time you switch black inks.  The only way to eliminate the ANC between cleaning cycles is to use service mode to perform the cleans.  personally if I were switching inks and it was causing me problems, I would print a nozzle check before I did so, and if anything is "clogged" would use service mode to clean it.  Then you at least have an outside shot at the ANC working well enough after the ink switch to avoid extra cleanings.

What you describe are the symptoms of failed ANC checks ... multiple cleanings, with a failed message followed by a perfect nozzle check pattern. (at least perfect to our eye ... maybe not perfect to the electronics of the machine).

This doesn't necessarily mean the hardware itself is bad.  I know mine was defective because Epson had me perform some test, and the ANC board test actually failed.  But as Jeff has mentioned the ANC is probably over aggressive, which should be addressable with a firmware update. It may be worth a call to have them walk you through the test to verify the hardware itself hasn't died.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2009, 12:08:32 AM by Wayne Fox » Logged

Farmer
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« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2009, 02:52:04 AM »
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The current "special" firmware will not trigger a clean on a black ink change automatically - that should only happen if there is actually a blockage and from my recent experience of using it, I've not seen a blockage as a result of the change so far (although it's clearly possible).

You need to bear in mind that any special firmware release at the moment on an individual basis is not a final release firmware - that's expected shortly, apparently.
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