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Author Topic: Arca Swiss Rm3d review  (Read 8980 times)
BernardLanguillier
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« on: July 16, 2009, 08:01:26 AM »
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Michael,

Thanks for the review.

These various options to focus legacy backs are interesting, but isn't the real solution life view in back?

Cheers,
Bernard
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BJNY
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« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2009, 11:19:41 AM »
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I don't think the geared fall of up to 30mm in the rear is a problem.
It effectively translates into upwards of 30mm rise in the front.
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michael
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« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2009, 11:45:14 AM »
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Live view is only a solution if there is a strong digital magnification available, the way it is, for example, on the Panasonic G1 and GH1.

Michael
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Harold Clark
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« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2009, 12:31:49 PM »
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Quote from: BJNY
I don't think the geared fall of up to 30mm in the rear is a problem.
It effectively translates into upwards of 30mm rise in the front.

Good observation. I couldn't fathom why an architectural camera would be designed with 30mm fall and only 10mm rise, unless they expect their customers to photograph mainly archeological excavations.
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asf
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« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2009, 02:19:44 PM »
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to minimize zero position parallax? compensated by equiv rear fall ...
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2009, 04:54:39 PM »
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Quote from: michael
Live view is only a solution if there is a strong digital magnification available, the way it is, for example, on the Panasonic G1 and GH1.

Michael

Sure, Nikon D3x implementation is perfect, click on a button and you zoom to a pre-defined level of enlargement, pixel level or more.

Am still amazed that backs don't enable this.

Cheers,
Bernard
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kers
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« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2009, 05:05:00 PM »
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Quote from: BernardLanguillier
Sure, Nikon D3x implementation is perfect, click on a button and you zoom to a pre-defined level of enlargement, pixel level or more.

Am still amazed that backs don't enable this.

Cheers,
Bernard

I am using a D3x and the three PCE lenses- - The optics are great wide open- IF - focussed correctly -The only way I can do that is using Live-view and a (hood) loop
Using tilt makes Live-View even more important.

If the D3x says it is sharp - and the Dot  appears - I can make within the room of the dot six pictures - only one is truly sharp
If i use auto focus at near infinity with lots of small detail the auto focus is near but not accurate...
« Last Edit: July 17, 2009, 09:37:36 AM by kers » Logged

Pieter Kers
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2009, 06:28:12 PM »
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Quote from: kers
I am using a D3x and the three PCE lenses- - The optics are great wide open- IF - focussed correctly -The only way can do that is using Live-view and a (hood) loop
Using tilt makes Live-View even more important.

If the D3x says it is sharp - and the Dot  appears - I can make within the room of the dot six pictures - only one is truly sharp
If i use auto focus at near infinity with lots of small detail the auto focus is near but not accurate...

Yep. The D3x has arguably the best AF in the world, and yet it is unable to tap fully into the potential of a AA filter 24 MP sensor, think of the waste of information taking place with MFDB not being focused because of the lack of in back live view... I am really surprised that most back owners don't list this as their #1 priority for future enhancement.

It leads me to think that most of these guys do in fact not really need the resolution.

Cheers,
Bernard
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tho_mas
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« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2009, 11:20:20 PM »
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Quote from: BernardLanguillier
think of the waste of information taking place with MFDB not being focused because of the lack of in back live view... I am really surprised that most back owners don't list this as their #1 priority for future enhancement.

It leads me to think that most of these guys do in fact not really need the resolution.
err? A misfocussed capture still has the resolution... just shifted back or in front of the focussed motif. We are only just iditos that we don't care about front- or backfocus.
 
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wolfnowl
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« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2009, 12:49:39 AM »
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Quote from: tho_mas
err? A misfocused capture still has the resolution... just shifted back or in front of the focused motif. We are only just idiots that we don't care about front- or back focus.

I'm curious why focus adjust is available in the more recent Canons, Nikons, Sonys, etc. but not Mamiya/ Phase One, Hasselblad, etc.  It would seem the resolution, as Michael said during the video, demands it.

Mike.
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paratom
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« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2009, 02:52:04 AM »
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As far as I heard Sinar measures and adjustes its lenses for the arTec in a way that you can not focus over infinity-meaning for every distance longer than lets say 10-15m you should be fine if you turn the focus to the end (at least with the wider lenses).
I dont know if Arca does the same, but if they do you are at least fine at infinity.
Now for the shorter distances the question is what is more precise - the groundglass or a distance meter like the Leica. Even if you measure the distance correct you have to turn the lens to the correct position. Lets say you measure 7m you still have to make up your mind if you dont have 7m on the scale.
SO I agree for shoter distances lieve view would be great.
On the other side I dont find the ground glass that bad. I gues here its an advantage if you use Rodenstock lenses, since a 35/4.0 HR lens compared to a Schneider5.6-lens+ center filter could make quite a difference in brightness on the groundglass.
I like the "orange grips" on the Rm3d.
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2009, 03:06:42 AM »
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Quote from: tho_mas
err? A misfocussed capture still has the resolution... just shifted back or in front of the focussed motif. We are only just iditos that we don't care about front- or backfocus.

Hum... like in this image?



More seriously, are saying that you don't feel the need for live view on your back?

Cheers,
Bernard
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Christopher
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« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2009, 06:37:42 AM »
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Quote from: BernardLanguillier
Hum... like in this image?



More seriously, are saying that you don't feel the need for live view on your back?

Cheers,
Bernard

Working with a Linhof and a P65 I can say, that Live view like Canon has it would be the most important new feature.
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tho_mas
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« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2009, 07:28:07 AM »
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Quote from: BernardLanguillier
are saying that you don't feel the need for live view on your back?
I don't feel the inevitable need, no. But live view would certainly be a very helpful feature!
I don't think that by now all photographs were out of focus and now after the invention of live view we finally can shoot sharp  

I honestly smiled a little bit about Michael's comment in the video about the screen in the Phamiya with the P65+. With the P65+ now we need it and we didn't need it with the P45+? I use split image and microprism screens since years. Even in my small 10MP DSLR because AF is simply not accurate enough especially with wide angles at distances near infinity. And in the small APS-C finder the screen is just too small to focus manually.
I definitely don't need live view for my Contax (with P45) - I have yet to miss accurate focus (from tripod, of course) as the split screens work really, really great. Though it would be helpful to have live view - here I don't miss it.

Regarding the Cambo WRS I use I see it pretty much as "paratom". I shoot the majority of my motifs with the lens set to infinity and this is save ground. Close distances from nearest to about 6 meters distance (talking about the Digitar 47XL here) are not that much of a problem as I can focus these distances pretty well on the groundglass (with a 6x aspherical loupe; and especially with my new fresnel screen). The real challenge are distances near but not quite infinity. Here I am using such a laser distometer from the very beginning and once you figured out how to set the lens it works pretty well. But, of course, it's not accurate enough if you shoot wide open. Exactly here I find Arca Swiss' approach very promising as it seems to be possible to set the distance on a very, very fine scale.
Furthermore I am seriously thinking about the Digaron HR lenses as they are faster as the Digitars. With the faster lenses I could use a GG with split image (preferably a bright screen with split of Bill Maxwell or something similar). At f5.6 with the Digitars the split goes dark so it's unusable here... unfortunately. A well mounted split screen would make live view irrelevant for me personally (as it is the case with my Contax'). Too, I wouldn't buy a new back just because of the live view feature as long as it is possible to work accurate without (and it is IMHO).
So... I think I will keep working (and working around) the "traditional" way for some time. Having said that a well working live view would definitely be a huge improvement. Then again I know that for other purposes than mine live view is more important - so I really understand why so many photographers ask for live view. For me personally: very nice to have but not essential.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2009, 07:37:19 AM by tho_mas » Logged
michael
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« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2009, 07:47:54 AM »
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Quote from: wolfnowl
I'm curious why focus adjust is available in the more recent Canons, Nikons, Sonys, etc. but not Mamiya/ Phase One, Hasselblad, etc.  It would seem the resolution, as Michael said during the video, demands it.

The reason is simple. CCD vs CMOS. The MF back makers believe that at this point CCD offers superior image quality. (Or, maybe it's because Kodak and Dalsa can't or won't make CMOS sensors in that size). CCD can't do Live View as it's currently implemented.

If Phase One and Hasselblad decide to switch to CMOS on a future generation back then Live View and video will both be possible.

How about a 90MB CMOS sensor, Live View with magnification, a large OLED screen, and 4K raw video capability?

RED should have a camera with similar capabilities within 18 months. Will Hasselblad and Phase One?

Michael
« Last Edit: July 17, 2009, 07:48:37 AM by michael » Logged
BobDavid
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« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2009, 10:35:03 AM »
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Quote from: michael
The reason is simple. CCD vs CMOS. The MF back makers believe that at this point CCD offers superior image quality. (Or, maybe it's because Kodak and Dalsa can't or won't make CMOS sensors in that size). CCD can't do Live View as it's currently implemented.

If Phase One and Hasselblad decide to switch to CMOS on a future generation back then Live View and video will both be possible.

How about a 90MB CMOS sensor, Live View with magnification, a large OLED screen, and 4K raw video capability?

RED should have a camera with similar capabilities within 18 months. Will Hasselblad and Phase One?

Michael

Hasselblad and Phase are smart to let RED go to market first with a bleeding edge 90MB CMOS platform. It won't be a big surprise if the big CMOS sensor is riddled with issues. It won't be a big surprise either if RED's camera isn't out in the marketplace in 18 months.
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David Grover / Phase One
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« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2009, 02:19:27 PM »
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Quote from: wolfnowl
I'm curious why focus adjust is available in the more recent Canons, Nikons, Sonys, etc. but not Mamiya/ Phase One, Hasselblad, etc.  It would seem the resolution, as Michael said during the video, demands it.

Mike.

It has been present in the H3D for sometime except it is carried out in the factory.

If you look in the System Status menu, there is a unique Focus Calibration ID which is created in the factory during final assembly.  This ensures that whatever lens is used, AF is where the customer placed it.  No individual adjustment of lenses if required as I assume our manufacturing tolerances are tighter than Nikon and Canon.

We also compensate automatically for aperture dependent focus shift.

Therefore I do not think the D3x is the best Autofocus camera in the world.  

Best,


David
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David Grover
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tho_mas
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« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2009, 02:23:12 PM »
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Quote from: David Grover / Hasselblad
AF is where the customer placed it.
David, what are the measures of the AF field?
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David Grover / Phase One
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« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2009, 02:23:52 PM »
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Quote from: BernardLanguillier
Sure, Nikon D3x implementation is perfect, click on a button and you zoom to a pre-defined level of enlargement, pixel level or more.

Am still amazed that backs don't enable this.

Cheers,
Bernard

Bernard, we are not being belligerent in not offering this feature.  It is simply not available (yet) at sensor level.  Of course, if it were possible we would use it!

Just because a medium format system doesn't have live view does not then render it impossible to focus.  That is a rather naive attitude.

Best,


David



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David Grover
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David Grover / Phase One
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« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2009, 02:24:31 PM »
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Quote from: tho_mas
David, what are the measures of the AF field?

Hi Thomas,

Not sure I understand (sorry!).  Do you mean the number of AF points?
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David Grover
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