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Author Topic: Canon 24mm TS-E vs 24mm TS-E II  (Read 12875 times)
Guillermo Luijk
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« on: July 22, 2009, 12:13:06 PM »
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Duccio Malagamba, professional arquitecture photographer, has taken some time to test his Canon 24mm TS-E compared to his recently purchased 24mm TS-E II.
The improvement in the max vertical shifted areas is clear in CA, sharpness, vigneting (I corrected that in order to see anything) and distortion. Still the >20Mpx sensor of the 1Ds MKIII used outresolves the optics in those shifted areas.



100% crop, neutral (DCRAW) development, no sharpening, minimum and equally applied to both images curve processing to lift shadows.


The RAW files available here:

24 TSE full shift

24 TSE II full shift

24 TSE II same framing as original TSE (i.e. a bit less than max shift since the TS-E II can shift more mm)


Regards
« Last Edit: July 22, 2009, 12:18:18 PM by GLuijk » Logged

dchew
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« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2009, 12:26:23 PM »
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Thanks for posting this Guillermo.  The CA and contrast looks relatively awful on the original.  I'm very curious because I'm either going to purchase the 24 f/1.4II or the 24 TSEII.  I have the old TSE, so if the new TSE is about as good as the 24 f/1.4 II, then I'll go that route.  For me, max aperture is not that important.

Dave
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Paul Roark
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« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2009, 08:55:27 PM »
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See http://www.dpreview.com/lensreviews/canon_24_3p5_tse_c10/

From a landscape shooter's perspective, the new independent/rotating tilt and shift controls could be critical to top performance.  It would appear that they can be used to optimize this lens' performance.  With this new mount and for tilts, it would appear that we can keep our subjects in the center of the image circle, where the dpreview seems to indicate this is a very fine optic.  

Paul    
www.PaulRoark.com
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erick.boileau
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« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2009, 11:39:17 AM »
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I wanted to buy this lens but now I don't know what to do,  if this is what you get  even for 500 euro I don't want it
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KevinA
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« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2009, 11:53:45 AM »
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Quote from: GLuijk
Duccio Malagamba, professional arquitecture photographer, has taken some time to test his Canon 24mm TS-E compared to his recently purchased 24mm TS-E II.
The improvement in the max vertical shifted areas is clear in CA, sharpness, vigneting (I corrected that in order to see anything) and distortion. Still the >20Mpx sensor of the 1Ds MKIII used outresolves the optics in those shifted areas.



100% crop, neutral (DCRAW) development, no sharpening, minimum and equally applied to both images curve processing to lift shadows.


The RAW files available here:

24 TSE full shift

24 TSE II full shift

24 TSE II same framing as original TSE (i.e. a bit less than max shift since the TS-E II can shift more mm)


Regards

Does this photographer use any MF with the digital Schneider or Rodenstock lenses, it would be nice to know how they compare with the Canon tilt /shift.

Kevin.
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Kevin.
KevinA
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« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2009, 11:59:29 AM »
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Quote from: erick.boileau
I wanted to buy this lens but now I don't know what to do,  if this is what you get  even for 500 euro I don't want it

When I look at old 5x4's now scanned they don't look non to clever in the extremes either, I always thought they were good. I think you need to see a large print of the entire image to make a final conclusion.

Kevin.
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Kevin.
erick.boileau
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« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2009, 01:58:52 PM »
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I'd like to see an Hasselblad HCD 28 + HTC 1.5  or the new Arca Swiss  M2   to compare
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Gary Ferguson
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« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2009, 03:06:05 PM »
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Really useful, thanks for posting!
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Ray
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« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2009, 08:28:59 PM »
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Quote from: erick.boileau
I wanted to buy this lens but now I don't know what to do,  if this is what you get  even for 500 euro I don't want it

I know what you mean. There's no doubt that the MarkII is an improvement on the original, but it's still seems to be plagued by softness and vignetting at the edges and corners of extreme shift.

The dpreview treatment of this lens in their review is superb. I don't recall ever seeing before such a thorough examination of lens performance. They give you a graphical illustration of how the MTF changes from centre to corner as the lens is stopped down. The good news is, this lens really is sharpest at and near full aperture, say F3.5 to F4. However, at maximum shift, at full aperture, edge performance looks really bad to me.

At F16 it's much improved, but of course centre resolution then becomes much worse. You can't have your cake and eat it, I guess.

I've owned a TSE 24 for a few years now. I found it useful for stitching with my cropped format cameras in the days when stitching programs were not nearly as good as they now are. When I first tried the lens on my 5D, for stitching purposes, I got a shock. The extreme edges on both sides of the panorama were so bad I returned to the site the next day and reshot the scene using my 20D,  standing further back.
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rainer_v
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« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2009, 08:54:45 PM »
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the main point in the two new shift lenses (17+24) is that they show very little distortion. so this are the first ultra wide angles for 35mm which behave like this. sharpness is still acceptable, CA is fantastic and vignetting isnt bad and can be corrected, even if its unsymmetric. unsymmetric distortion which show all older designs in a strong amount is not correctable,- or very very difficult.
with these new shift lenses will appear a new chapter for architecture photography with 35mm systems, its a great step for the 35mm reflex system.
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rainer viertlböck
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www.tangential.de
erick.boileau
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« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2009, 10:57:25 PM »
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Quote from: Ray
I've owned a TSE 24 for a few years now. I found it useful for stitching with my cropped format cameras in the days when stitching programs were not nearly as good as they now are. When I first tried the lens on my 5D, for stitching purposes, I got a shock. The extreme edges on both sides of the panorama were so bad I returned to the site the next day and reshot the scene using my 20D,  standing further back.
I've owned the TSE 24 Mark1 too , and even without any tilt and shift  the edge were very bad  (used with 5D and 1Ds Mark III) , I've sold it 6 month ago

I wonder if  it is not a better idea to go directly for arca swiss M-Line 2

« Last Edit: July 28, 2009, 10:59:17 PM by erick.boileau » Logged
Ray
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« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2009, 01:56:47 AM »
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Quote from: rainer_v
the main point in the two new shift lenses (17+24) is that they show very little distortion. so this are the first ultra wide angles for 35mm which behave like this. sharpness is still acceptable, CA is fantastic and vignetting isnt bad and can be corrected, even if its unsymmetric. unsymmetric distortion which show all older designs in a strong amount is not correctable,- or very very difficult.
with these new shift lenses will appear a new chapter for architecture photography with 35mm systems, its a great step for the 35mm reflex system.


Yes. I think there's no doubt that the MarkII version of this lens is an improvement in every respect over the MarkI. Even if one were to use it as a standard 24mm prime without using the tilt and shift functions, it would be an excellent prime, but with the disadvantage of no autofocus.

One project I have in mind, when I get the time, is to compare my D700 with Nikkor 14-24, at say 20mm, with my TSE 24 MkI on the 5D at full shift shooting a building. I'll then use distort and warp to pull the Nikkor image into the same shape as the TSE 24 shot, then crop. If the TSE 24 MkI shot is as sharp as, and hopefully slightly better than the Nikkor shot, then that would give me an incentive to buy one of these new TSE lenses, but preferably the 17mm. If the TSE 24 MkI is clearly not as sharp, then I'm in a quandary. It would be difficult to justify the purchase of the new lens.
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DaveCurtis
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« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2009, 03:08:01 AM »
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Quote from: Ray
Yes. I think there's no doubt that the MarkII version of this lens is an improvement in every respect over the MarkI. Even if one were to use it as a standard 24mm prime without using the tilt and shift functions, it would be an excellent prime, but with the disadvantage of no autofocus.

One project I have in mind, when I get the time, is to compare my D700 with Nikkor 14-24, at say 20mm, with my TSE 24 MkI on the 5D at full shift shooting a building. I'll then use distort and warp to pull the Nikkor image into the same shape as the TSE 24 shot, then crop. If the TSE 24 MkI shot is as sharp as, and hopefully slightly better than the Nikkor shot, then that would give me an incentive to buy one of these new TSE lenses, but preferably the 17mm. If the TSE 24 MkI is clearly not as sharp, then I'm in a quandary. It would be difficult to justify the purchase of the new lens.


Dpreview say the TSE 24 MkII is  even better than the EF 24mm F1.4L II.

I'm currently deciding between both these lenses and perhaps waiting for the Zeiss ZE 21mm.

I might wait for Diglloyd to do his review.
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erick.boileau
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« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2009, 07:12:18 AM »
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even my 24-70 mm is better on the edge
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Christopher
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« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2009, 10:31:51 AM »
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Quote from: erick.boileau
even my 24-70 mm is better on the edge
Well I don't think so. The first problem would already be that you can't shift your 24-70.... and if you could, you would see a black border there the image circle ends.
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Guillermo Luijk
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« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2009, 12:34:48 PM »
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Quote from: erick.boileau
even my 24-70 mm is better on the edge
If you know what shifting a lens means, you will understand that the edge of your 24-70 is not at all the same edge as that of the shifted 24mm TS-E II. Anyway the samples by Duccio were handheld snapshots at f/12, still a lot of room for improvement up to f/16 or even f/20 with a tripod. The only intention was to show the improvement from Mark I.

Quote from: KevinA
Does this photographer use any MF with the digital Schneider or Rodenstock lenses, it would be nice to know how they compare with the Canon tilt /shift.
As far as I know, Duccio is not using MF anymore. His phisioterapist was becoming richer and richer as his back was hurting more and more.


Here there is a comparision of Canon 24-70 vs Nikkor 14-24 vs Canon 24mm TS-E II (non shifted). The Canon 24mm TS-E beats them all. It's fair to say the Nikkor 14-24 performs great in spite of being a zoom.


A 100% crop of a 24mm TS-E II handheld shot with a 5D2 in a shifted area at f/8:




And a rescaled shot from the 17mm TS-E here, 1Ds III or 5D2:



Regards
« Last Edit: July 29, 2009, 12:47:01 PM by GLuijk » Logged

Ray
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« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2009, 02:13:31 AM »
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Quote from: GLuijk
Here there is a comparision of Canon 24-70 vs Nikkor 14-24 vs Canon 24mm TS-E II (non shifted). The Canon 24mm TS-E beats them all. It's fair to say the Nikkor 14-24 performs great in spite of being a zoom.

Regards


Well, I suppose that more or less settles it, but perhaps not quite regarding the Nikkor 14-24 versus the TSE 24. It's useful to know that the Nikkor at full aperture of F2.8 cannot match the TSE 24 at full aperture of F3.5, but what rings a few alarm bells is the fact that, at equal apertures, the bottom left corner of the Nikkor shots seem to be noticeably worse than the top left corner shots. Is this because of the nature of the subject. Are blades of grass a better subject to distinquish resolution differences, or is there perhaps an imbalance of performance in all four coners?

Could it be that the copy of the Nikkor zoom tested, at 24mm, was rather poor in the lower left corner but much better in all other corners? Could it be the case that the Canon TSE 24mm was better in the lower left corner than the lower right corner or upper right corner.

A thorough test should include all corners. I've noticed often when testing lenses that there's an imbalnce of resolution at all 4 corners.



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DaveCurtis
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« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2009, 03:31:27 PM »
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www.the-digital-picture.com now has their review completed.

Looks like a great lens. Unshifted it is the best 24mm he has tested.
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lisa_r
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« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2009, 10:37:13 AM »
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" plagued by softness " Huh

I think we have to keep in mind that this is 100% pixel peeping here. You are effective looking at a 6.5 foot print (as rendered on your 72dpi monitor) from 12" away, no? This lens looks great to me, and with a little sharpening, and proper viewing distance, it's killer IMO. Much better than the series I.
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