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Author Topic: Sinar  (Read 8849 times)
BJL
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« Reply #20 on: July 30, 2009, 10:20:06 AM »
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Looking for some hope, Jenoptic talks of abandoning *medium format* and seems to confirm the death of the Hy6 camera system, but is there a continuing role for a company like Sinar with digital view camera systems, backs and/or bodies? Even then, in the digital back market, the combined Phase One/Leaf seems to have a big advantage over Sinar, which has not yet updated to the newest generation of sensors and is likely to be [changed from here] at a big disadvantage in selling backs to users of the Hasselblad and Mamiya/Phase SLR systems, hurting its overall sales volume and economies of scale.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2009, 10:29:22 AM by BJL » Logged
Dick Roadnight
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« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2009, 10:47:10 AM »
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Quote from: BJL
...is there a continuing role for a company like Sinar with digital view camera systems, backs and/or bodies? Even then, in the digital back market, the combined Phase One/Leaf seems to have a big advantage over Sinar, which has not yet updated to the newest generation of sensors and is likely to be [changed from here] at a big disadvantage in selling backs to users of the Hasselblad and Mamiya/Phase SLR systems, hurting its overall sales volume and economies of scale.
Sinar I regard as a manufacturer of mechanical focusing/movement systems to which you can attach various backs (including CCD, scan and film) and a wide variety of lenses. It would be nice to thing that they could survive without making/marketing/badge engineering digital backs.
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Hasselblad H4, Sinar P3 monorail view camera, Schneider Apo-digitar lenses
ThierryH
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« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2009, 11:39:59 AM »
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You are right, a small market, but so it was before digital, and Sinar with the arTec and with other well thought products as a platform has its chance like it had before.

Thierry

Quote from: tho_mas
I hope Sinar will stay in the market at least as a small, fine camera maker providing products for all plattforms as Linhof, Arca Swiss, Cambo, Horseman (...) do.
The arTec is possibly their dead pledge and I hope it sells well enough to keep the company. Still a very small market.
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schaubild
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« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2009, 12:04:26 PM »
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Quote from: ThierryH
.....

Sure enough, Jenoptik want(ed) to get rid of Sinar: shareholders are not often very patient (see also Kodak) and it was never Jenoptik's core business. Sure enough, the time is the worse ever.

.....


You're right. It might have been shortsighted and egoistic of Jenoptik to expect something positive after owning (and investing into) Sinar for almost four years.

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tom_l
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« Reply #24 on: July 30, 2009, 12:15:47 PM »
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I suppose if smaller european companies like Arca, Alpa, Cambo, Silvestri can survive in this business, Sinar can too!
I suppose the Artec will be available for all mounts very soon. There should be a market for well engineered view cameras like the F3/p3 too. They still have the M System in their line-up which take different lens mounts (These AF Zeiss lenses should be some of the best MF lenses available) and should somehow also be available with different back mounts from differents manufacturers.
Sinar had released some amazing products, I really wish them luck.


Tom
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #25 on: July 30, 2009, 02:08:14 PM »
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Quote from: Dustbak
The current owner doesn't have faith in it anymore and is letting go of it because it only racks up losses without sight on future profits.

I wouldn't make that assumption. If it were true, it woud be impossible to sell and yet it has been sold. Many companies make sweeping commitments to focus on core products and divest themselves of other projects almost regardless of merit. When I was working at JPMorgan (London) a whole department was shut down (a decision from high up) although that department was making profit in the tens of millions.
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paratom
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« Reply #26 on: July 30, 2009, 02:21:23 PM »
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Quote from: Dustbak
Whatever is going to happen. The current owner doesn't have faith in it anymore and is letting go of it because it only racks up losses without sight on future profits. These are not my words but what the owner is stating in a public press release. It seems the people that need to cough up the money don't want to do so anymore. It makes losses and is now on its own sofar no other financing has been reported. Jenoptik is so keen on getting rid of Sinar it is willing to let it go in what is probably one of the worst periods in time to divest assets. If Jenoptik would see just a glimpse of recovery my guess is they wait, hold on to it and sell it later for a better price or here is a concept; have a subsidiary that delivers them a profit.

Again, a deafening silence from a company that appears to be in turmoil. There seems to be a trend of sand and heads which doesn't bode well most of the time.

As much as I hope you are right Thierry, the way it currently looks is not good.

Just because a shareholder value controlled company with a wide spread product range doesnt see fast profit in a business unit doesnt mean anything IMO.
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Goodi
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« Reply #27 on: July 30, 2009, 02:29:59 PM »
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Quote from: rainer_v
and it wouldnt have been a bad idea as well if jenoptik waited with its annoucement to the moment when sinar finds the time to  talk at the same how its going on.
I think Jenoptik was not able to wait cause Jenoptik is a stock corporation and they have to announce changes immediatelly when they are decided.

It sadden me to hear that Jenoptik discontinue the back business, but I already expected that 8 month ago. So I cross my fingers that Sinar will survive without Jenoptik, but this will be very hard.

Michael
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jimgolden
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« Reply #28 on: July 30, 2009, 02:31:25 PM »
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Quote from: TorbenEskerod
I have to contradict you there - Denmark and Sweden (Phase and Hasselblad) are officially back from holiday Monday August 3.
good to hear - i hope your right - as I have a H3 digi magazine waiting for repair!
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Nick_T
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« Reply #29 on: July 30, 2009, 03:59:39 PM »
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I think Sinar will continue as a bespoke maker of cameras as they used to be and good luck to them

Science, Industry, Nature, Architecture, Reproduction

Nick-T
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ThierryH
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« Reply #30 on: July 30, 2009, 04:13:46 PM »
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Nick,

with all due respect, "S" stands for "Studio".

 

Best regrads,
Thierry

Quote from: Nick_T
Science, Industry, Nature, Architecture, Reproduction

Nick-T
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Nick_T
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« Reply #31 on: July 30, 2009, 04:23:56 PM »
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Quote from: ThierryH
Nick,

with all due respect, "S" stands for "Studio".

 

Best regrads,
Thierry
Thanks for the correction Thierry, I couldn't remember all of the acronym  so looked it up and both Wiki and this site have it as "Science".
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ThierryH
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« Reply #32 on: July 30, 2009, 04:29:51 PM »
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hi Michael,

True, but nobody is expecting it to be easy and like a Sunday walk. However, and may be I am a fool to think this, I believe that Sinar has a better chance without a big company like Jenoptik behind/over it.

I hope you are doing well in Hambourg.

Cheers,
Thierry

Quote from: Goodi
So I cross my fingers that Sinar will survive without Jenoptik, but this will be very hard.

Michael
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ThierryH
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« Reply #33 on: July 30, 2009, 04:34:45 PM »
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No problem Nick.

There is another mistake on the 4x5" site: Sinar was started in 1948, not 47, with the development of the Sinar "Norma".

Best,
Thierry

Quote from: Nick_T
Thanks for the correction Thierry, I couldn't remember all of the acronym  so looked it up and both Wiki and this site have it as "Science".
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edwinb
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« Reply #34 on: July 30, 2009, 05:14:06 PM »
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Quote from: schaubild
Sinar is on it's own. And without digital backs.


The Jenoptic statement doesnt say either of those things.

which of the current range of digital backs would you like with your HY6?
Sinar HY6 for sale
(with warranty and support)  

Edwn
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Edwin Blenkinsopp
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evgeny
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« Reply #35 on: July 30, 2009, 05:46:34 PM »
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I think Hy6/AFi is exactly the same camera.

It is called Hy6 with Sinar back attached, and AFi with Leaf back.

F&H is now collapsed. P1/Leaf and Leica/Sinar can't produce that camera. So, nothing new is really said.

The summer holidays will continue as usual.  It is hot summer here. If Sun will collaps, who will take the pictures?
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Goodi
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« Reply #36 on: July 31, 2009, 12:06:49 AM »
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Quote from: ThierryH
hi Michael,

True, but nobody is expecting it to be easy and like a Sunday walk. However, and may be I am a fool to think this, I believe that Sinar has a better chance without a big company like Jenoptik behind/over it.

I hope you are doing well in Hambourg.

Cheers,
Thierry

Hi Thierry,
without a big company some thinks are easier and some are more difficult, but without big investment Sinar isnot able to develop digital backs, so they will concentrate on cameras like the ArcTec. To sell this it is not necessary to have a big organisation. Look at Alpa and Arca they are really small companies. That is the reason why we see all the action like closing Sinar Germany and selling the shares of SinarBron.

We are doing well in Hamburg.
Michael
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ThierryH
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« Reply #37 on: July 31, 2009, 01:34:38 AM »
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hi Michael,

That is exactly what I mean to say, the concentration on where Sinar comes from. As for back development: the technology can be bought, if necessary, and it is not necessarily more expensive as it used to be.

Keep well,
Thierry

Quote from: Goodi
Hi Thierry,
without a big company some thinks are easier and some are more difficult, but without big investment Sinar isnot able to develop digital backs, so they will concentrate on cameras like the ArcTec. To sell this it is not necessary to have a big organisation. Look at Alpa and Arca they are really small companies. That is the reason why we see all the action like closing Sinar Germany and selling the shares of SinarBron.

We are doing well in Hamburg.
Michael
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #38 on: July 31, 2009, 05:07:50 AM »
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Quote from: ThierryH
As for back development: the technology can be bought, if necessary, and it is not necessarily more expensive as it used to be.

Agreed. I wouldn't be surprised if Jenoptik made a new back for Sinar in the future, under contract. It makes sense - Jenoptik already has the experience. But this is pure conjecture on my part.
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edwinb
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« Reply #39 on: July 31, 2009, 05:56:27 AM »
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Quote from: xinchenc
With digital back?

I suggest the Emotion 75 LV as the most flexible option because not only can it work with the HY6 but it also interfaces by design
with the :-
Sinar m
Sinar p3 (with Sinar sliding adapter)
Sinar f3 SL
Sinar p2
Sinar x
Sinar f2, f1
Contax 645 AF
Hasselblad H1
Hasselblad H2
Hasselblad 5xx series
Mamiya 645 AFD
Mamiya 645 AFD II
Mamiya 645 Super
Mamiya 645 Pro
Mamiya 645 Pro TL
Mamiya RZ 67
Mamiya RZ 67 Pro II
Rolleiflex 6001
Rolleiflex 6003
Rolleiflex 6008 prof
Rolleiflex 6008 integral
Rolleiflex 6008 integral 2
Rolleiflex 6008 AF
and a whole lot more !

so forgive me for being optimistic about the future but I think the Sinar's more open flexible (dare I say 'Industry Leading' ) designs put it in a stronger position than others.
This is shown by the continious support calls we deal with (from older leaf system owners for example
and yes we do still supply Volare power supplies) right through to newer issues with Leaf Afi and Rollei HY6 owners who we are able to welcome.      
along with innumerable view camera components.


Edwin
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Edwin Blenkinsopp
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image2output
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