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Author Topic: First problems with 9900  (Read 5758 times)
Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2009, 04:14:26 AM »
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Quote from: BernardLanguillier
What I don't get here is why changing the platen gap would solve the issue if it were due to a paper feed speed problem?

Regards,
Bernard

Platen gap could also compensate paper feeding for heavier substrates based on some Epson estimates.
Almost all wide format inkjets measure the paper feeding on the paper feeding axle, that method isn't 100% accurate as the paper weight differs, the friction differs per paper texture and paper softness, the roll can be wounded tight or less tight, paper rigidity influences the curl that has to be straightened and humidity can vary all the parameters mentioned first. So with known paper qualities compensations are added. A  far nicer approach is measuring the actual paper speed with a sensor that checks the paper texture movement. The HP Z6100 has that but no other wide format that I know off.
Platen gap could also give a slight expansion of the droplet pattern, covering up the small mismatches between head strokes and paper feeding or similar flaws.

What I recall of the attached image (it doesn't appear anymore) didn't make me think it is a paper feeding issue. That usually translates to smaller bands/lines that are not covered with the right density. And I disagree with the opinion that that fault becomes progressively worse on longer lengths. If so then that is an indication of slip on the transport axle where the printed paper at the front wheighs in so to say. Your sample showed almost 1:1 banding so a bidirectional printing issue is more likely. That it starts at some point in the printrun is an indication that ink starvation is the main cause. That printing at a slower speed and/or unidirectional improves the print quality is another sign.

Either Epson is at the edge of the heads capacity or ink feeding capacities with your settings of speed and finest detail at that format or there's something wrong with your printer's ink feeding or head voltage. It could be a slightly lower ink pressure due to a leaking cart air chamber membrane that isn't reported by the air pressure sensor. Filling the head ink buffers continually but not achieving a real fill where the ink buffer sensors will block the valves again till the buffer(s) get lower again, valves opened and new ink flows to the buffer(s). Ink feeding pressure shouldn't influence the piezo head capacity, it is just used to bring enough ink from the carts to the buffers. Membranes on the ink buffers keep the ink there at atmospheric pressure. But buffers that do not get enough ink will influence the head capacity at some point, bidirectional movement and/or printing speed is the most demanding task. I also wonder whether fine detail shifts the head output to higher frequency + minimum droplet sizes instead of  using an average bigger droplet in the other modes. On thin ice here as that is how the 10600 worked.

It could be solved as simple as inserting a new cart. But which one?


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/
« Last Edit: August 03, 2009, 04:18:24 AM by Ernst Dinkla » Logged
Farmer
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« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2009, 07:26:39 AM »
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Finest Detail only affects the amount of data accepted for input and not the output resolution.  The rastered image will favour sharper lines to support text or other vector images, but the output resolution remains unchanged.

Overall, the variation in total ink usage between all the printing modes (excluding 360 or draft output modes) is very small and would not likely be the cause of this problem.  The damper allows sufficient reservoir of ink to be held to guard against quite reasonable air bubbles without interuption to printing, so a minor starvation issue (such that it doesn't cause an error due to pressure failure) seems unlikely to consistently cause failure after a certain time/length.

Regarding the banding versus print length, the displayed sample is too small to determine that the banding is consistent or 1:1 as Bernard is printing over a considerable length with the panos.

Concerning the ink starvation issue, I also doubt this is the case as such a starvation would result in nozzles firing empty which would be detected by the AID as a blockage, but Bernard is not reporting that the printer is indicating any nozzle blocks or attempting to clean and, indeed, if the printer did do into an extensive cleaning cycle then the time taken would allow for the pump to "catch up" in filling the dampers which would result in the starvation being fixed (and therefore starvation banding being eliminated after the cleans).  Significant empty fires could also increase head temperature sufficiently to cause an error.

I still believe that a lengthy printing of C M Y and K strips will help to determine the nature of the problem, as will printing without Finest Detail and also checking at different output resolutions.  It will also help to determine if it is a single channel or all channels and if it is all channels, then starvation can't be the problem or you would simply have fading prints rather than banding.  If it is just one channel, then there is a possibility that the particular channel is the issue but since the banding appears consistent across various colours of the print, that doesn't appear to be the case.

At this point, though, regardless of the cause, a service technician is required, imho.
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #22 on: August 03, 2009, 10:52:25 AM »
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Quote from: Farmer
At this point, though, regardless of the cause, a service technician is required, imho.

Yes, let us wait for the service man verdict. I keep my bets till then.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

Dinkla Gallery Canvas Wrap Actions for Photoshop
http://www.pigment-print.com/dinklacanvaswraps/index.html
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2009, 04:19:38 PM »
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Dear all,

An Epson technician spent 1.5 hour with the printer yesterday.

His theory is that the printer default gap got messed up during transportation, which resulted in the need to increase the plate gap to avoid the head hitting the paper. Accordingly, he performed a gap adjustement that seems to have solved the problem per the test we did.

Thank you all for your kind help.

Cheers,
Bernard
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pleverington
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« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2009, 06:59:46 PM »
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I'm getting to this thread a little late and maybe I should have started a new one. I also have a 9900 and have experienced wide frequency banding. I also discovered that my profile targets that should be ten inches long were coming out almost 1/4 inch too short! And ink was being laid down in separating spaces between the color rows where it shouldn't have been. I tried a lot of stuff and then it dawned on me to slice off a piece from the roll and feed it through manually. All problems went away. I think the whole problem I was having and maybe the problem the original poster had here might be coming from the back tensioning feature of the 9900. I'm no master printer so it's possible I've missed something but I did struggle with these problems for a month and thought I had tried everything I could think of including going into maintenance mode and changing the back tensioning value to it's lowest setting of one.

It's true epson support knows little about this printer.

The media I was using that gave me the problems was canvas. Maybe the problem would show up with other media or maybe not. I don't know.

I'll be constructing an overhead rack above the 9900 using my 9600 spindle so as to bypass using the 9900's system with back tensioning if I can't figure this one out.


Paul
« Last Edit: August 11, 2009, 04:33:29 AM by pleverington » Logged
Ray
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« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2009, 07:15:18 PM »
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These issues with the professional series of Epson printers are a bit of a worry. I got myself an Epson 7600 a few years ago, not only because I prefer large prints, but also because the costs of ink and paper are less with such machines (per unit area of paper, that is).

However, I've had troubles with the 7600 right from the beginning.

The first problem was apparently an incompatibility issue with Adobe Photoshop. I'd attempt to make a 24"x36" print and the printer would just stop at about the 30" or 32" mark, as though the print were finished. You can imagine how much ink and paper I would have wasted trying to sort that problem.

Since I'd had my eye on Qimage for a while, I decided to use Qimage instead of Photoshop for all printing. Problem solved. I later discovered that Adobe fixed the problem with an update, but too late. I prefer Qimage.

The next problem was what appeared to be a contamination of the yellow ink with light cyan. The yellows on a print would be definitely too green and the print would be ruined. Test patterns looked okay. No broken lines. I'd go through another cleaning routine just to be sure, then attempt another print. Same problem.

You can imagine how much ink and paper I've wasted with that problem. At one stage I was printing an inch-wide bar of solid yellow at the border of the first print of each printing session, so that the cyan contamination would clear itself before the print head reached the print proper.

For some reason that problem has now cleared itself and I haven't had a recurrence for a year or so.  The printer now seems to have settled down and is working just fine.

I'm thinkng I would now like to upgrade to the 7900, but I'm too far out of the city area to get free visits from technicians. All these teething problems with the 7900 and 9900 are really putting me off. I'm attracted by the automatic switching from matte black to photo black, the wider color gamut of the inks, and the lower cost of the inks when bought in the larger cartridge sizes, but I'd like to be more confident that I'm not going to have the same amount of trouble that I've experienced with the 7600.

I'm thinking it would be better to wait a while till these teething problems are all sorted.

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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #26 on: August 10, 2009, 09:19:06 PM »
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Quote from: Ray
I'm thinkng I would now like to upgrade to the 7900, but I'm too far out of the city area to get free visits from technicians. All these teething problems with the 7900 and 9900 are really putting me off. I'm attracted by the automatic switching from matte black to photo black, the wider color gamut of the inks, and the lower cost of the inks when bought in the larger cartridge sizes, but I'd like to be more confident that I'm not going to have the same amount of trouble that I've experienced with the 7600.

One more problem this morning, I am getting chronical "ink cartridge error" with a new 350 ml cartridge. Tried cleaning the contacts and it seems to reduce the frequency of the issue, but does not eliminate it totally.

Cheers,
Bernard
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Wayne Fox
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« Reply #27 on: August 11, 2009, 02:23:09 AM »
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Quote from: BernardLanguillier
One more problem this morning, I am getting chronical "ink cartridge error" with a new 350 ml cartridge. Tried cleaning the contacts and it seems to reduce the frequency of the issue, but does not eliminate it totally.

Cheers,
Bernard

I've read this can be caused by air bubbles at the cartridge nozzle.  Light tapping of the cartridge may dislodge this and enable the the cartridge again.  I have had 3 or 4 cartridge errors that were remedied by this. Whether they were actually caused by air bubbles I do not know ... but the gentle tapping of the cartridge against a table top seemed to cure the problem.
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Farmer
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« Reply #28 on: August 11, 2009, 04:29:35 PM »
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Quote from: Wayne Fox
I've read this can be caused by air bubbles at the cartridge nozzle.  Light tapping of the cartridge may dislodge this and enable the the cartridge again.  I have had 3 or 4 cartridge errors that were remedied by this. Whether they were actually caused by air bubbles I do not know ... but the gentle tapping of the cartridge against a table top seemed to cure the problem.

Best bet with these that I've found is to actually leave them laying on their side overnight.
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fjmcsu
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« Reply #29 on: August 11, 2009, 06:56:33 PM »
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received my first error on a new 350ml cartridge newly installed .I was also told of the the tap method(rather vigorous on side opposite the chip.Worked like a charm.
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #30 on: August 11, 2009, 09:06:36 PM »
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Quote from: fjmcsu
received my first error on a new 350ml cartridge newly installed .I was also told of the the tap method(rather vigorous on side opposite the chip.Worked like a charm.

Thank you gentlemen, tried shaking the catridge at the same time I cleaned the sensor... don't know which one helped.

Cheers,
Bernard
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