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Author Topic: Annie L  (Read 7547 times)
Rob C
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« on: August 07, 2009, 05:29:16 AM »
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Considering the lady has helped nurse and project the careers of so many luminaries of both stage, screen and the world at large, would it be asking too much to suggest that some of the recipients of her art might consider putting their hands into their silken purses and returning the favours?

The collective price of a couple of nights in their favourite hotel suites would soon help her to a new beginning as a wiser and happier woman. If you know anyone in that elevated position of being able to help, why not direct them ever so subtly to this slot.

As some of her friends are wont to say: you´re worth it. Now an opportunity to prove they are too.

Rob C
« Last Edit: August 07, 2009, 05:33:14 AM by Rob C » Logged

feppe
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« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2009, 10:29:09 AM »
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Let me get this straight: you're seriously suggesting charity for someone who has made at least an order of a magnitude more than the average wage in one of the wealthiest nations in the world for the past 20 years at least, with future potential income at least as much as in the past, and with fortune in the tens of millions of dollars?

Even taking her considerable debt into consideration, I'll cordially pass.
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MelHill
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« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2009, 10:51:07 AM »
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Not in this lifetime...
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Justan
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« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2009, 12:11:25 PM »
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I bet a number of people would do so if she made an organized effort. People donate to all kinds of things.

But I predict she knows that she can work her way out so will not turn that route.

I'm reminded of when Willie Nelson ran into trouble with the IRS and was “forced” to produce a double album to help pay his obligations. Then he sued his accounting company for putting his assets in tax shelters which the IRS later disallowed. The accountants settled. Three years later Mr. Nelson had paid off about 16.7m in debt.

Of course, should it come to pass, Ms Liebovitz, could file for bankruptcy and escape most of the debt and some or most of the contractual obligations that go with it. Failing gifts, it amounts to nearly the ultimate help Anne fund…
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Rob C
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« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2009, 12:13:29 PM »
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Quote from: feppe
Let me get this straight: you're seriously suggesting charity for someone who has made at least an order of a magnitude more than the average wage in one of the wealthiest nations in the world for the past 20 years at least, with future potential income at least as much as in the past, and with fortune in the tens of millions of dollars?

Even taking her considerable debt into consideration, I'll cordially pass.




Feppe

Yep, quite serious. You´re in the finance business, so you must know that there are zillions of multi-millionaires out there - even as a poor snapper I know some - and I am appealing to their sense of fair play, returning a little something for all they have gained from her talent.

Obviously too much to ask from the likes of some of us, but hardly from the very riche unless just too nouveaux!

It´s all about perspective and relativity.

Rob C
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feppe
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« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2009, 03:26:18 PM »
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Quote from: Rob C
Feppe

Yep, quite serious. You´re in the finance business, so you must know that there are zillions of multi-millionaires out there - even as a poor snapper I know some - and I am appealing to their sense of fair play, returning a little something for all they have gained from her talent.

Obviously too much to ask from the likes of some of us, but hardly from the very riche unless just too nouveaux!

It´s all about perspective and relativity.

Rob C

I have some (not much, but some) sympathy for her getting on a ride with bad, incompetent or unscrupulous money managers, or however she managed to get her finances in such a horrid state, but there are many more worthy causes for those millionaires to spend their charity dollars. That's my perspective and relativity.
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Rob C
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« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2009, 04:25:24 PM »
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Quote from: feppe
I have some (not much, but some) sympathy for her getting on a ride with bad, incompetent or unscrupulous money managers, or however she managed to get her finances in such a horrid state, but there are many more worthy causes for those millionaires to spend their charity dollars. That's my perspective and relativity.


Where does charity come into this?

The objective, I would have thought, would be to put the lady back on her feet without the nerve-wracking attentions of commercial loan-mongers, the worry of losing her life´s work (copyright in her catalogue) and the stress-related damage that all those factors can cause a person. The Fund, I would imagine, could be set up in many different ways to the tax advantage of both the knights in white armour as well as the photographer herself.

Breathing space, a clear mind and continuing work might well enable the repayment of any aid over a realistic time span that no commercial lender would countenance without crippling rates of interest, if at all.

Bankruptcy? Why not offer heart attacks too? Or cancer; anything anyone likes.

We had an interesting example on the news the other day: a loan shark lent a woman (England) five hundred pounds and collected eighty-eight thousand.

Banks? Best advice I ever had about them came from a manager friend of my father-in-law: Rob, he told me, we lend you an umbrella when the sun is shining and we want it back when it rains. That advice stuck.

Rob C
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daws
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« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2009, 06:39:12 PM »
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If I had even a fraction of the net worth of someone like, say, Bill Gates, I'd bail her out in a heartbeat and set up a fund that would protect her from a similar situation for the rest of her life.

Quote from: Rob C
It´s all about perspective and relativity.
Exactly right.

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Ray
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« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2009, 07:26:11 AM »
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Michael Jackson was another person who seems to have had great difficulty in managing his personal finances. It can not always be attributed to the bad practices of accountants and 'hangers on'.

I don't think that Annie should be given special treatment in this respect. She's an artist and has probably been irresponsible with her finances. She should bear the responsibility of her irresponsible activities.

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thewanderer
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« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2009, 11:35:06 PM »
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Quote from: daws
If I had even a fraction of the net worth of someone like, say, Bill Gates, I'd bail her out in a heartbeat and set up a fund that would protect her from a similar situation for the rest of her life.


Exactly right.


Why in the world would you want to bail out a grown woman, with sane mind, and earning potential and "protect her" for a situation she put her self in. it doesnt matter if you had the money or were bill gates.   Simply unbelievable!!!!!!  i dont care how many pretty pictures or so called trends she or anyone has set, her, michael jackson,  it doesnt matter who,, they had the joys of worshipship, and adoration of many thousands and now they are broke and you want to bail them out,, jesus h crist!!!  

this bail out mentality is just completely out of control,, surely you are just high or mentally challenged to even suggest such a option.
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Rob C
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« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2009, 06:20:37 AM »
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Quote from: thewanderer
surely you are just high or mentally challenged to even suggest such a option.




Probably neither; just of a different mindset. It would be as absurd to suggest you are simply a miserable young/old asshole. Wouldn´t it?

Had you bothered to read the first post, you´d note that the suggestion was made as a form of repayment for the benefits that those same "stars" took/take from her work; that you or others outwith that world would be expected to contribute was never in consideration.

Have a brilliant day, and may all of your decisions be the right ones.

Rob C
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Lab Magician
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« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2009, 09:00:09 AM »
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However much Annie L's work boosted the careers of celebrities, photographing them boosted hers. The photographer of celebrity became a celebrity in the process and was paid celebrity fees. The process was mutually beneficial.

There are those who would argue that Annie L, like more than a few photographers, has only reached where she is by standing on the shoulders of assistants and others, such as lab tekkies. Those people were paid for their contributions and knowledge just as Annie L was (whether too much or too little is also arguable).

The same would go for 'the hated' Paparazzi. It's a mutually beneficial relationship. I know a top pap and there's an awful lot of celebs who will swear at him and get their security to push him out the way one week, then the next when their clippings service can't find a pic of them in the mags, will call him about 'an exclusive' or he'll get an anonymous tip-off about where they'll be later. He asked one, quite big, celeb who is always pleasant to snappers whether she ever got fed up with it. She replied by saying 'No paparazzi at your door means you're not famous any more - and no fame means no fortune'.

I doubt rather strongly though whether anyone on here would suggest that there be a bail-out for any assistant, tekkie or pap who messed up their finances or even if they'd fallen into poverty due to circumstances beyond their control. Let them stack shelves.

IMVHO, if celebrities consider plunging their hands into their designer silken pockets and purses to help out anyone, it should be the ordinary folks whose money via cinema tickets, ad deals, etc. has bought and filled those pockets and purses. Some do, but in the main they do it on the quiet.

Baz
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Justan
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« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2009, 09:53:33 AM »
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Quote from: thewanderer
Why in the world would you want to bail out a grown woman, with sane mind, and earning potential and "protect her" for a situation she put her self in. it doesnt matter if you had the money or were bill gates.   Simply unbelievable!!!!!!  i dont care how many pretty pictures or so called trends she or anyone has set, her, michael jackson,  it doesnt matter who,, they had the joys of worshipship, and adoration of many thousands and now they are broke and you want to bail them out,, jesus h crist!!!  

this bail out mentality is just completely out of control...

Your conclusion is right in there with the majority. Bailing out the rich is an interesting “mind set,” isn’t it? Many people are generous, even charitable, sometimes to a fault. Typically, generosity is aimed at those who are less fortunate. To give aid to those more fortunate is a rare thing. Some occasions when this happens are in the name of support of political or religious affiliations, or the desire to help bring about change, as when contributing to support a hospital, habitat for humanity, or other similar pursuits.

I have to agree that giving contributions to one who has achieved fame and considerable fortune is not typical, and probably would never be received favorably by the majority.

OTOH, if someone saw an opportunity to make some $$, they might be inclined to bail out Anne and take control of her holdings as an opportunity for a nice return. But if that doesn’t exist, no one other than perhaps adoring fans, would likely contribute to such a thing.

She already proved beyond the doubt of any reasonable adult that she can’t manage money. To offer a no-strings bail out to her would be tantamount to just throwing the money away. Supporting that concept is pretty far outside of responsible human nature.

Besides, other than financially, she’s not injured in any way. She can still work, drawing a considerable salary for her efforts. That is what she ought to do.

But people who are infatuated by her and/or her works may think along the lines of the OP.


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Rob C
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« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2009, 11:41:58 AM »
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Quote from: Justan
But people who are infatuated by her and/or her works may think along the lines of the OP.





Let the OP make one thing clear: he is not infatuated with the lady; he feels as he does because of a sense of fair-play which says that it wouldn´t go amiss were some of the '25 million bucks a pop' movie stars and musos who have benefitted from her work to dig a little into their wallets and help her settle a problem which can only get in the way of her work. Of course, you may have the ability to work well when worried about something else - I never did and I can´t speak for Ms L either, which I have not done.

That her problems have come to a head in this economic climate might have something to do with it, perhaps? Or is that too generous an idea for the 'majority' mindset that you appear to endorse? I never did give a fig for majorities - they generally but not always, to me, represent the lowest common denominator which every politician has wisely taken to heart and mind. As for the generalised idea of 'bailing out the rich' is concerned, I am thinking of one individual who, obviously, is far from rich at this precise moment, not any generic type.

Rest assured, you won´t be alone in refraining from generosity of spirit; the world is very low in that resource; check with your 'majority'.

Rob C

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Lab Magician
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« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2009, 12:46:59 PM »
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Quote from: Rob C
Rest assured, you won´t be alone in refraining from generosity of spirit; the world is very low in that resource; check with your 'majority'.

Rob C

And so is this forum. Every time I come here threads seem to self-destruct.

Enough for me, I have better things to do - bye.

Baz
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daws
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« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2009, 12:00:08 AM »
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Quote from: thewanderer
...surely you are just high or mentally challenged to even suggest such a option.
In fact, neither.

I would be making a decision based on a number of aesthetic and societal considerations, among which are (ready for it? here it comes...) none that have anything whatsoever to do with exchange.






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kikashi
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« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2009, 02:50:40 AM »
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Quote from: Lab Magician
And so is this forum. Every time I come here threads seem to self-destruct.

Enough for me, I have better things to do - bye.

Baz
There are certainly quite a few self-destructing threads on this site. However, this hasn't (yet) become one of them. thewanderer, whoever he might be, chose to post a semi-literate rant, but the remainder of the posts have expressed opposing views on a topic which has some merits worthy of debate.

FWIW, I wouldn't offer a penny to someone who has achieved such gross mismanagement of her own affairs and who remains, so far as I can tell, capable of resolving the situation, with due pain, herself. I'm prepared to accept, though, that others would take a different view.

Still, if you have better things to do, do them.

Jeremy
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RSL
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« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2009, 10:30:05 AM »
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Rob,

I understand where you're coming from, but it seems to me that instead of offering charity, the "luminaries" who've been assisted by Annie L in their rise to "luminance" might simply hire her at her usual inflated prices to add a few clicks on the celebrity jack to raise them to higher luminance and lift her out of penury.

I know there are those who worship Annie L because of her coverage of "luminaries" such as Lennon and Ono and her, well, close relationship with Susan Sontag, but I can't find in any of her work to which I have access anything that comes even close to the work of people like Ansel Adams, Garry Winogrand, Steve McCurry, Arnold Newman, or dozens of others I could name.

Those who live by the luminary shall...
« Last Edit: August 10, 2009, 10:32:25 AM by RSL » Logged

Rob C
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« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2009, 10:46:16 AM »
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Quote from: RSL
Rob,

I understand where you're coming from, but it seems to me that instead of offering charity, the "luminaries" who've been assisted by Annie L in their rise to "luminance" might simply hire her at her usual inflated prices to add a few clicks on the celebrity jack to raise them to higher luminance and lift her out of penury.




And that, Russ, seems a very acceptable way to accomplish a rescue!

Now, could we but get the luminous ones to read this thread...

Ciao

Rob C
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kikashi
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« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2009, 01:53:34 PM »
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Quote from: Rob C
And that, Russ, seems a very acceptable way to accomplish a rescue!

Now, could we but get the luminous ones to read this thread...
Do you mean the illuminati? I gather they control everything anyway.

Jeremy
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