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Author Topic: Print size limits  (Read 9462 times)
Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #20 on: August 23, 2009, 06:51:33 AM »
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Quote from: dct123
Okay, let's really stir up some s**t here...I've printed 24"x144"+ from InDesign and Qimage to a Z3100ps where the Printer Driver Dialogue box stated that the maximum length was 129".  This same dialogue box appears in every application with the same info. So, i guess the application trumps the driver?

This is interesting. The PCL3 driver for the Z3200-PS doesn't know a length limit like that and I tested it up to 5 meter. Application to print from doesn't matter though Qimage can handle bigger files than Photoshop up to CS3 and longer lengths than Photoshop in general. The PS3 driver shows the 129" length limit and I thought HP at least doesn't exaggerate the lengths possible this time so I didn't check what it actually can do. On the plain Z3100 that is limited to the PCL3 driver the length limit indicated is something like 91 meters but it doesn't do more than 109". The only way to get beyond that practical  limit is with the optional HPGL2 driver where no practical length limit is known yet but prints were made up to 17' and the driver indicates 91 meters as possible.


On the thread:
It is a pity that Steve's Digicam site was bought by another company and the articles by Mike Chaney are no longer carrying his name and hard to find there but Mike has written some good articles on large print making that are of use to everyone not only Qimage/Windows users. I will ask him to copy/rewrite them for his own site/forum http://www.ddisoftware.com/tech/

Edit: there is already a copy of the article on print lengths: http://ddisoftware.com/tech/articles/febru...printing-large/

met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/
« Last Edit: August 23, 2009, 06:59:33 AM by Ernst Dinkla » Logged
dct123
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« Reply #21 on: August 23, 2009, 11:01:53 AM »
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Quote from: Ernst Dinkla
The only way to get beyond that practical  limit is with the optional HPGL2 driver where no practical length limit is known yet but prints were made up to 17' and the driver indicates 91 meters as possible.

The only time I've used the HPGL2 Driver is for Illustrator line art projects, as I understand that it's a vector image driver rather than a raster image driver. Have you printed photographic images with it?
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2009, 02:19:48 PM »
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Quote from: dct123
The only time I've used the HPGL2 Driver is for Illustrator line art projects, as I understand that it's a vector image driver rather than a raster image driver. Have you printed photographic images with it?

It came up in a thread on the Qimage list. For the past two years I have tested how the plain Z3100 with the PCL3 driver could print beyond the 109' limit. Someone else needed to print longer with the same equipment and raised the question on the Qimage list. I wrote that it wasn't possible. In the end he mentioned an advice from a HP serviceman to get the HPGL2 driver. He did and he could print longer from Qimage that way. As Qimage can't handle vector images and the question was about bitmap files it was clear to me that we were discussing pixels in this case. I didn't ask whether the driver used in the end was the HPGL2 driver or that installing the HPGL2 driver allowed the PCL3 driver to go beyond its normal limit. As far as I know HPGL2 can handle bitmaps etc in HP's PCL description.

Matt Nolan wrote this on that solution:

Success!  Using the Z3100 HPGL2 driver I was able to print out a
3'x17' panorama using Qimage and it looks great.  The driver offers a
maximum of 91 meters -- I didnt test it, but I suspect it may be
correct.

The next thing I want to test is Mike's suggestion of cutting up
gigapixel images in photoshop and then reassembling them in Qimage as
separate images printed on the same page.  This is different than the
banner trick where Qimage cuts the image and tries to avoid the page
break (which doesnt work with the Z3100).  So if this new technique
works, I dont see that there is anything standing in the way of
printing a 10,000 x 100,000 gigapixel image, or even larger, using
Qimage.

end of quote

There was someone who mentioned in a similar thread here that with the Z-PS models the HPGL2 driver is bundled and installed with the other software. Which may be the reason that the PS models do not have that length limitation with the PCL3 driver. At least my Z3200-PS can go beyond the 109' length limit. And possibly also allows the PS3 driver to go beyond the 129" limit while the driver menu says otherwise, the fact I expressed my surprise about in the message before this one.

One thing is sure, HP should have given a more transparent description on the length limitations in all the drivers it has for the Z models. By trial, error and accident the picture of what works and what not becomes clearer.

Cheers,
Matt

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Anthony Howell
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« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2009, 02:10:36 PM »
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For the general pool of knowledge. (Epson 9900 & OSX 10.5)

Finally got around to try tiling a larger than 90.5" with Illustrator CS3. A couple of problems arose immediately.
1st - Illustrator converts 16bit to 8bit. Not a biggy.
2nd - Illustrator will not import images over 30,000 lpi.
So much for this 90.5" workaround unless I missed something.

Next tried tiling as described in the 9900 manual on pg 114-115 "Choosing Roll Paper Options," resulted in a 1 or 2 pixel overlap. Clear blue skies with a vertical overprint line kind of ruins the effect.  

Onward to buy a full blown RIP that can print as well as Photoshop, proof Pantone Colors and postscript sharpen fonts for the price of a new computer.


Anthony Howell
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mcmorrison
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« Reply #24 on: October 03, 2009, 06:00:05 PM »
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Hello,

Has anyone had any further experience with this? Does SL (Mac) change the 90.5" inch limit? Or might this be addressed in the next Epson driver update?

Thanks!

Michael Morrison
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Doyle Yoder
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« Reply #25 on: October 03, 2009, 07:17:04 PM »
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To add to the pool of knowledge. The Canon IPF PS Plugin will print 60,000 pixels. The driver will print 59' although about 26' is the longest I have printed so far. I do believe that the limitation might be with software at this size.

This is on the Mac by the way. I do not know if there are limitations on Windows as to length with the Canon drivers.

Doyle
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mcmorrison
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« Reply #26 on: October 03, 2009, 07:37:21 PM »
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Hello,

I have a further data point for the discussion. I am running a Mac, 10.5.8 with 4 GB RAM, a 9900 with the most recent driver, and Lightroom 2.5.

I tried to print a 14" x 105" print today, with print resolution set to 360. The paper was cut to the paper size (108"), but only the middle 77" of the image was printed. The image is 8 bit. I reprinted it with print resolution set to 180, and the entire image was printed correctly, all 105 inches. Clearly there is not an inviolable 90.5 inch limit. This result speaks to a file size limit. Based on 14" x 77" x 360 x 360, the limit might be about 140 megapixels at 8 bits.

I have also printed, successfully, a 34" x 68" 8 bit file, most likely at 360, which would be about a 300 megapixels, in excess of the 140 limit of my first 105" attempt. Does this suggest that there is a more complicated formula that limits the printable length?

Best,

Michael Morrison
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kirmo
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« Reply #27 on: October 05, 2009, 02:13:56 AM »
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Hi,

thanks for the feedback. I'm still sticking to LR 2 and CS4 for printing photos.
The 71cm x 600cm (230" long) picture has now been on display for some weeks.

I'm putting more memory to my Mac. From 8G to 24G. I'll most likely have another
try. Just currently short of suitable paper and also need to check the status of my inks!

Just to remind that with LR2 there is no 90,5" limit. No plans to buy any RIP's.
I've been locally told that there is a limit around 590-600" when printing without RIPs.

I like to keep things simple.

Kirmo
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philh2o
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« Reply #28 on: May 16, 2010, 10:51:57 PM »
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I landed here while looking for an answer on same. My experience: Printing out of Photoshop CS4 to an HPz3200 from an iMac w/8GB of RAM, OS 10.6.2, image size 17" x 132" x 300 ppi…

I got a prompt that said "Photoshop cannot print this document because Documents more than 32,767 pixels in width will not print correctly…" Once the doc was resized to that pixel width, which happens to be 9 feet, it went through the printer like poop through a goose.

Not having LightRoom or a RIP, I opening the file using Nikon's Capture NX 2 where there was no issue at all printing at the orignal 132". Way cheaper than a RIP, but you gotta have native Nikon RAW files or convert to TIFFs.

-Another Phil

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langier
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« Reply #29 on: May 17, 2010, 01:01:53 AM »
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Ran a 12 x 2 foot pano with my 9800 a few months back on matt. Not a problem in printing or cutting, other than the print is much longer than I wish to handle more than occasionally... File was 180 ppi, about 26,000 pixels long and within the 30,000 pixel limit that I read somewhere on the web.

As I recall, the output res with the Epson driver under OS 10.4x for printing was at least 720 ppi if not 1440 ppi, whatever I normally have as my preset.

No problems with cut-off, image truncation, etc. It all went smoothly though it took awhile to print.

Of course, YRMV.

The only limitation I have found in printing long was that my Epson 4000 (an antique that's still plugging along today!) had a 42 inch, more or less, limit. When I tried to print longer, about 1-2 inches printed and the paper was cut and ejected. Took only a simple call to Epson to find out that I was out or range.
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Larry Angier
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johnHerrin
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« Reply #30 on: May 19, 2010, 04:13:45 PM »
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Quote from: pleverington
I went through this and found illustrator to be the answer. I was not however printing a 30 foot long print. When you tile your image in illustrator, it breaks the large image down to what essentially would be many smaller, spool managable, individual images. You never spool a large image then, so theorectically any size picture is printable( limit being your computer then I suppose). The one thing you must find and check is the "save paper" button. This will tell the printer to immediately print the next spooled image(actually the next section of your large monstrosity) without so much as a pixel of gap between the images. Voila! One long butt print. It's not necessary at all to tile either with large sizes tiles--in fact a hundred small ones might be better as you'll see after a few inches if your tiling set up is working as planned and if not--you can stop the printing and not waste more media. The 9900 I now have might have this capabilty built into the driver as I saw the save paper button and optimise enlargment check box--but I could be mistaken as I have yet to take the time to investigate.

The limit on print length is 90.5 inches and is not pixel based, it's inches based. And the limit is from photoshop-not the print driver. This might be why you have been able to print using lightroom. What your probably seeing now is a file size limitation totally bogging down the system. If you learn to tile then all the printer and ps will know is that your asking them to print a bunch of small, very managable pictures in a row--which they can handle forever no problem. Illustrator is probably a lot cheaper than a good RIP. I have zero knowledge on using Q-image to do this so maybe thats something you might want to check out.

Paul
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johnHerrin
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« Reply #31 on: May 19, 2010, 04:29:18 PM »
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Print size limitations seems to be universal question.

On Epson web site for 1880 printers, Epson states: The maximum printable page length is 590.55 inches when using the Epson printer driver. Using a RIP may allow you to exceed this limit. Epson was not forthcoming with details or explanations.

Today I failed to print a 46x36 image at 360 dpi and at 300 dpi. My dealer previously informed me Photoshop limits any dimension to 60 inches maximum, so I thought I was safe. I finally printed it at 240 dpi. Today my dealer said Photoshop limits are in pixels, not inches, but he did not know what limits are. From posting, is seems to vary?

Any suggestions for a RIP for Macs or other alternative?

John
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Doyle Yoder
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« Reply #32 on: May 19, 2010, 05:17:56 PM »
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Quote from: johnHerrin
Any suggestions for a RIP for Macs or other alternative?

John

I would take a look at the Colorburst RIP. They have a fully working demo for 15 or 30 days.

Doyle
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Farmer
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« Reply #33 on: May 19, 2010, 08:53:48 PM »
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Quote from: johnHerrin
Print size limitations seems to be universal question.

On Epson web site for 1880 printers, Epson states: The maximum printable page length is 590.55 inches when using the Epson printer driver. Using a RIP may allow you to exceed this limit. Epson was not forthcoming with details or explanations.

Today I failed to print a 46x36 image at 360 dpi and at 300 dpi. My dealer previously informed me Photoshop limits any dimension to 60 inches maximum, so I thought I was safe. I finally printed it at 240 dpi. Today my dealer said Photoshop limits are in pixels, not inches, but he did not know what limits are. From posting, is seems to vary?

Any suggestions for a RIP for Macs or other alternative?

John

PS CS3 and earlier had a pixel limit to do with 16bit limits - basically, it was 30,000 pixels in either dimension.  Bear in mind that was rasterised pixels, so depending on the DPI and your paper size it was easy enough to go over it.  CS4 sorted that issue out and the limit was increased to over 300,000 pixels in either dimension (and I did some testing back then and sure enough it works).

If you had a 46in image at 300dpi that would be well within the PS range, even back to CS3.  What's the actual failure you're seeing?  That might give some clues as to what's going on.
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