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Author Topic: Paper Talk  (Read 11264 times)
Murph
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« on: August 29, 2009, 10:42:11 AM »
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I have some questions on paper(s) that perhaps the members can illuminate for me.  My current favorite papers are: Hahnemuehl Photo Rag 308 gsm, Moab Entrada 300 gsm, Epson Ultra Premium Presentation paper Matte (I use MATTE ink in my 4880.)  I also like the Hahnemuehl Bamboo paper.  Since I don't generally print glossy, and would really like to use luster/semi-gloss on certain photos, what is the overall opinion of these papers:

1) Epson Ultra Smooth Fine Art paper

2) Epson exhibition fibre paper (I'd like to find this stuff in rolls)

3) Hahnemuehl Baryta

4) Ilford Gold Fibre Silk

I will get these to use on a friend's 7900 since he uses Photo Black inks in his printer, and I'll cover his costs.

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neile
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« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2009, 01:38:08 PM »
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Quote from: Murph
2) Epson exhibition fibre paper (I'd like to find this stuff in rolls)
3) Hahnemuehl Baryta
4) Ilford Gold Fibre Silk

These three papers are all excellent and it will really be personal preference as to which you prefer. The Ilford is very warm, the Baryta from Hahnemuhle is very very cool, and the Epson is somewhere in between. Michael has written about them in the past, look for "Battle of the Barytas" and "Epson Exhibition" on his reviews page.

Neil
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Murph
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« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2009, 02:36:06 PM »
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Yeah, I just wish the Exhibition Fiber was in rolls though.  How do they handle both B&W AND Color?

Quote from: neile
These three papers are all excellent and it will really be personal preference as to which you prefer. The Ilford is very warm, the Baryta from Hahnemuhle is very very cool, and the Epson is somewhere in between. Michael has written about them in the past, look for "Battle of the Barytas" and "Epson Exhibition" on his reviews page.

Neil
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Alan Goldhammer
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« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2009, 02:49:53 PM »
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Quote from: Murph
Yeah, I just wish the Exhibition Fiber was in rolls though.  How do they handle both B&W AND Color?
I have printed wonderfully on both the Epson and Ilford papers in both B&W and color.  Ilford paper has a very wide gamut.  the only minor drawback with the Epson paper is that it has OBAs.
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howseth
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« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2009, 02:58:05 PM »
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For a slight sheen effect - you might try Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Satin, if you have not already.

Howard
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JeffKohn
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« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2009, 03:38:54 PM »
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the Baryta from Hahnemuhle is very very cool
The Fine Art Baryta is cool, but Photo Rag Baryta is not. The latter is OBA-free with a slightly warm paper base. I also prefer the texture of the Photo Rag version.
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Murph
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« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2009, 04:34:30 PM »
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Hey Jeff!  I am thinking of getting a box of the Photo Rag Baryta to use on Ken's 7900, so its a paper you like?  

Quote from: JeffKohn
The Fine Art Baryta is cool, but Photo Rag Baryta is not. The latter is OBA-free with a slightly warm paper base. I also prefer the texture of the Photo Rag version.
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JeffKohn
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« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2009, 10:38:37 PM »
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Quote from: Murph
Hey Jeff!  I am thinking of getting a box of the Photo Rag Baryta to use on Ken's 7900, so its a paper you like?
Yes, Photo Rag Baryta is my favorite fiber semi-gloss paper, I use it whenever I'm printing with photo-black ink. If you want, PM me your address and I can send you a sample print on it.

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iancl
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« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2009, 11:36:07 PM »
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I was using Hanh Fine Art Baryta and Ilford Gold Fibre Silk together due to their difference in one being VERY warm and the other being VERY cool. I would swap depending on the image being printed and its toning.

Now that PhotoRag Baryta has come out, I use it exclusively for gloss (and Hahn Bamboo for Matte). I'm very happy.

I print both B&W and colour. I am using a Canon ipf5100.

www.iancoxleigh.com
« Last Edit: August 29, 2009, 11:36:28 PM by iancl » Logged

Murph
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« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2009, 02:38:27 PM »
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How do you like the Bamboo?  I have had issues with color on this paper, and it seems to me to require very careful handling in the long and short runs.  Anyone tried the Sugar Cane paper either?

Quote from: iancl
I was using Hanh Fine Art Baryta and Ilford Gold Fibre Silk together due to their difference in one being VERY warm and the other being VERY cool. I would swap depending on the image being printed and its toning.

Now that PhotoRag Baryta has come out, I use it exclusively for gloss (and Hahn Bamboo for Matte). I'm very happy.

I print both B&W and colour. I am using a Canon ipf5100.

www.iancoxleigh.com
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Marlyn
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« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2009, 10:48:50 PM »
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Quote from: Murph
2) Epson exhibition fibre paper (I'd like to find this stuff in rolls)

Now available in rolls.  Just had two delivers. (I'm in Aus, so actually Traditional Photo, but same thing).   Quite happy with it.


Regards

Mark.
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neile
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« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2009, 12:11:22 AM »
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Quote from: Marlyn
Now available in rolls.  Just had two delivers. (I'm in Aus, so actually Traditional Photo, but same thing).   Quite happy with it.

Must be Ausie luck? In the US nothing's listed on Epson's site (http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/pamCategory.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=yes&infoType=Professional&oid=-10381).

Neil
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iancl
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« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2009, 09:32:13 AM »
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Quote from: Murph
How do you like the Bamboo?  I have had issues with color on this paper, and it seems to me to require very careful handling in the long and short runs.  Anyone tried the Sugar Cane paper either?

There are very few colour images in my portfolio that I print matte, so I don't have much experience with that. I haven't had handling difficulties though.
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gcs
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« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2009, 01:13:28 PM »
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Quote from: neile
Must be Ausie luck? In the US nothing's listed on Epson's site (http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/pamCategory.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=yes&infoType=Professional&oid=-10381).

Neil

Epson Tradition is also in UK and I think also in the rest of EU countries (it is a problem of patents and agreements with the paper manufacturer and Epson America).

By the way, I mentioned in an other post, that Canson will have a Baryta paper Sep/Oct in addition to Platine Fibre, I saw both samples, liked the Baryta paper compared to the Platine, but my final choice will be once I test them with my prints.

Gonzalo
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Murph
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« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2009, 08:06:52 PM »
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No one else has a favorite paper or paper suggestion for the members of the forum?
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TylerB
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« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2009, 08:37:19 PM »
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Quote from: Murph
No one else has a favorite paper or paper suggestion for the members of the forum?

As long as you keep the distinction between PhotoRag Baryta and Fine Art Baryta in mind I think you''ve gotten good feedback along the lines of my experiences as well. For one more photo black paper to try, Innova FibaPrint White Semi-Matte is excellent, if just a hair cool for my taste, and may have one of the nicest darkroom type surfaces I've seen.
For matte black, the Premier Art Generations Alise, both bright and natural white, continues to be impressive papers in my testing.
Tyler
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jschone
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« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2009, 03:42:59 PM »
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I have been running a fine art print shop for 4 years now, always trying new papers when they arrive on the market, but in the end I always stick to Epson and Hahnemuehle. The Innova, Harmann and ilford (baryta) papers look beautiful but they are just too delicate and that means to many reprints. So my list of paper is as follows:

-Epson premium luster --> Excellent paper. When matted and behind glass, who cares about paper feel. just looks great.
-Epson premium glossy --> for all prints that are mounted behind plexiglass, because of not having any obvious surface texture, so no air bubbles
-Hahnemuehle PhotoRag -->  a classic beautiful paper, probably still the most popular paper in our studioù
-Hahnemuehle PhotoRag Baryta --> After we started printing on this paper we've got rid of Fine Art Baryta (just for some clients who prefer the black on Fine Art Baryta --> a little darker and less warm)
-Hahnemuehle Bamboo --> A paper we like, but not use that much. Black and white images in shadow areas are better then PhotoRag, but still most clients prefer PhotoRag. For color images Bamboo is a bit too warm.

And that is about it. Most important is that I stick to a paper I like and get used to its properties. Know where it shines, but most of all, know the limits.

Softproofing is important and so is a good monitor, but more important is to know your output. You can buy the most expensive Eizo, but if you change paper all the time, I can assure you that you're better off with a calibrated imac and get used to a paper and learn to know how it behaves on your images.

Jochem



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Murph
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« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2009, 07:38:51 PM »
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Interesting.  So the glossy is not too glossy?  I am leaning towards the Photo Rag Baryta just because I love Photo Rag so much.  

Quote from: jschone
I have been running a fine art print shop for 4 years now, always trying new papers when they arrive on the market, but in the end I always stick to Epson and Hahnemuehle. The Innova, Harmann and ilford (baryta) papers look beautiful but they are just too delicate and that means to many reprints. So my list of paper is as follows:

-Epson premium luster --> Excellent paper. When matted and behind glass, who cares about paper feel. just looks great.
-Epson premium glossy --> for all prints that are mounted behind plexiglass, because of not having any obvious surface texture, so no air bubbles
-Hahnemuehle PhotoRag -->  a classic beautiful paper, probably still the most popular paper in our studioù
-Hahnemuehle PhotoRag Baryta --> After we started printing on this paper we've got rid of Fine Art Baryta (just for some clients who prefer the black on Fine Art Baryta --> a little darker and less warm)
-Hahnemuehle Bamboo --> A paper we like, but not use that much. Black and white images in shadow areas are better then PhotoRag, but still most clients prefer PhotoRag. For color images Bamboo is a bit too warm.

And that is about it. Most important is that I stick to a paper I like and get used to its properties. Know where it shines, but most of all, know the limits.

Softproofing is important and so is a good monitor, but more important is to know your output. You can buy the most expensive Eizo, but if you change paper all the time, I can assure you that you're better off with a calibrated imac and get used to a paper and learn to know how it behaves on your images.

Jochem
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ognita
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« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2009, 01:23:55 AM »
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Hi jschone,
I'm in a place where paper is hard to find and the printer guys that I trust only carries Epson papers. I am currently using Epson Velvet for my prints I have also tried Ilford Pearl - they're both nice but I want to try something else to know what paper would be best for my images. I have read that images like mine are good with Fuji Crystal Archive paper, a paper for color. I have read the gradations are smooth as it can. Again, I cannot try it for myself.

With your years of experience, and this goes for everyone... what paper would you suggest? I mean generally.

My works can be seen at www.ognita.com

PS. I would have just sent you a PM as I feel this post is too self oriented but I thought some members might benefit from the answers.

Thanks!
ReD

Quote from: jschone
I have been running a fine art print shop for 4 years now, always trying new papers when they arrive on the market, but in the end I always stick to Epson and Hahnemuehle. The Innova, Harmann and ilford (baryta) papers look beautiful but they are just too delicate and that means to many reprints. So my list of paper is as follows:

-Epson premium luster --> Excellent paper. When matted and behind glass, who cares about paper feel. just looks great.
-Epson premium glossy --> for all prints that are mounted behind plexiglass, because of not having any obvious surface texture, so no air bubbles
-Hahnemuehle PhotoRag -->  a classic beautiful paper, probably still the most popular paper in our studioù
-Hahnemuehle PhotoRag Baryta --> After we started printing on this paper we've got rid of Fine Art Baryta (just for some clients who prefer the black on Fine Art Baryta --> a little darker and less warm)
-Hahnemuehle Bamboo --> A paper we like, but not use that much. Black and white images in shadow areas are better then PhotoRag, but still most clients prefer PhotoRag. For color images Bamboo is a bit too warm.

And that is about it. Most important is that I stick to a paper I like and get used to its properties. Know where it shines, but most of all, know the limits.

Softproofing is important and so is a good monitor, but more important is to know your output. You can buy the most expensive Eizo, but if you change paper all the time, I can assure you that you're better off with a calibrated imac and get used to a paper and learn to know how it behaves on your images.

Jochem
« Last Edit: September 04, 2009, 01:26:05 AM by ognita » Logged

Murph
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« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2009, 05:07:03 PM »
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Hi, I actually like the Epson papers, they do very well on my 4880 and on the R2400 before it.   For just regular printing, the Epson Ultra Premium Exhibition paper works well in my printers with good colors.  BTW, I just checked out your website and WOW!  You do amazing work.  Your work is similar to one of my all time favorite photographers; Chen Changfen, who photographs the Great Wall.   He prints some stunning prints using an Epson printer on Rice paper.  

Quote from: ognita
Hi jschone,
I'm in a place where paper is hard to find and the printer guys that I trust only carries Epson papers. I am currently using Epson Velvet for my prints I have also tried Ilford Pearl - they're both nice but I want to try something else to know what paper would be best for my images. I have read that images like mine are good with Fuji Crystal Archive paper, a paper for color. I have read the gradations are smooth as it can. Again, I cannot try it for myself.

With your years of experience, and this goes for everyone... what paper would you suggest? I mean generally.

My works can be seen at www.ognita.com

PS. I would have just sent you a PM as I feel this post is too self oriented but I thought some members might benefit from the answers.

Thanks!
ReD
« Last Edit: September 05, 2009, 05:10:25 PM by Murph » Logged
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