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Author Topic: "Hasselblad repairs must be the richest repair shop in the world!"  (Read 9994 times)
PetterStahre
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« on: August 30, 2009, 07:35:30 AM »
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Since I'm not myself an owner of any medium format system, but would like to be in the future, I'm curious what owners think about the build quality of their systems.

In the mag Professional Photographer (UK) august '09 I've just read the article about David Loftus, the (food) photographer who works with Jamie Oliver.

Apart from making me drool over his travel kit (2xH2, P65+, P25+, Hasselblad 500cm with P45) he says: "My H1s and H2s go wrong constantly. I can get through as many as three on a tough, week-long shoot. Hasselblad repairs must be the richest repair shop in the world!".

He also says he gave Jamie "his first Hasselblad a few years ago, but his patience with the problems associated with owning one has long worn thin!". (He's currently "loving the Canon EOS 5D" according to David.)

Is this the state of Hasselblad build quality or has H3 changed anything?

// Petter
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Voltman
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« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2009, 08:23:17 AM »
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Quote from: PetterStahre
Since I'm not myself an owner of any medium format system, but would like to be in the future, I'm curious what owners think about the build quality of their systems.

In the mag Professional Photographer (UK) august '09 I've just read the article about David Loftus, the (food) photographer who works with Jamie Oliver.

Apart from making me drool over his travel kit (2xH2, P65+, P25+, Hasselblad 500cm with P45) he says: "My H1s and H2s go wrong constantly. I can get through as many as three on a tough, week-long shoot. Hasselblad repairs must be the richest repair shop in the world!".

He also says he gave Jamie "his first Hasselblad a few years ago, but his patience with the problems associated with owning one has long worn thin!". (He's currently "loving the Canon EOS 5D" according to David.)

Is this the state of Hasselblad build quality or has H3 changed anything?

// Petter

Not sure about the H3 but I've just spent the last year deciding on a new platform for my MFDB to replace my Contax 645/Kodak DCS 16MP back.  As part of that process I tried an older Fuji GX645 (same as H1) with film back loaned from a friend for a while and attempted to rent the newer version of the GX645 - the same as an H2 I believe.  At that point the rental house told me they were discouraging me from renting the Fuji due to the high number of failure issues and were recommending I either keep on with the Contax or move to Mamiya 645AFDIII.  In the end I went with Mamiya RZ & 645AFD.  Side by side though I still think the Contax is superior in both build and optics compared to the Mamiya.  

Note I think most of the H1/H2 components are made by Fuji btw.  Not sure but I've been told the H3 as well.



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Dick Roadnight
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« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2009, 09:58:50 AM »
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Quote from: Voltman
Not sure about the H3 but I've just spent the last year deciding on a new platform for my MFDB to replace my Contax 645/Kodak DCS 16MP back.  As part of that process I tried an older Fuji GX645 (same as H1) with film back loaned from a friend for a while and attempted to rent the newer version of the GX645 - the same as an H2 I believe.  At that point the rental house told me they were discouraging me from renting the Fuji due to the high number of failure issues and were recommending I either keep on with the Contax or move to Mamiya 645AFDIII.  In the end I went with Mamiya RZ & 645AFD.  Side by side though I still think the Contax is superior in both build and optics compared to the Mamiya.  

Note I think most of the H1/H2 components are made by Fuji btw.  Not sure but I've been told the H3 as well.
My H3D has never let me down, but I have not had it long or done much with it... but the build quality seems total rubbish compared to the old film cameras... mostly how the bits do not go together first time with a reassuring click.
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Hasselblad H4, Sinar P3 monorail view camera, Schneider Apo-digitar lenses
Andre R
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« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2009, 11:36:46 AM »
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I use my H3D seven days per week as my main camera, mostly on location (warm and dusty), and have done 27000 clicks in 9 months, without any major problems except some contact issues between lens and body that I have been able to solve on location. I trust my H3D enough these days that I don't carry a backup system anymore.

In the past 25 years I have used almost every film based medium format system there is (ETR, SQ, GS, M645, RZ, P645, P67, F645, F680, F617, Plaubel, 2000/200/500/SWC, Arca, C645, 6000, Noblex, L617) and have never had a system without problems of some sort.  Obviously an advantage in the 'old' days was that you could fix many problems yourself with a coin (!) or a screwdriver/hammer. I don't see the H3D as any more 'fragile' than any other camera out there. Of course, could be I have been lucky.

Regards
Andre
   

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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2009, 12:02:28 PM »
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Individuals reporting through a forum, even those that have very high usage, are terrible indicators of camera reliability.

If you want answers to these questions I'd inquire with rental houses, production studios (that may have 6-8 systems), or (if you have one you trust) a dealer. They deal with enough units over a long enough time to have a decent chance at accurately determining the reliability of a system.

A rental studio would be able to tell you for instance, that if you shoot tethered you should avoid a 1Ds II (or at least be ready/prepared to switch to a backup) because the firewire ports fail so often.

A similar situation occurs with hard drives. Individuals have great loyalty/hatred to hard drive brands/makes/models from their own individual experiences. The entities that really know about hard drive failure rates are the large data-companies like Google which uses hundreds of thousands of drives and tracks their performance and failure rate with incredible diligence. Even that is not perfect since their usage and needs are very different than consumer/prosumer usage.

My experience is that individuals reporting on forums tend to over-report those with problems versus those without, and also tend to over-report problems with expensive gear since the failure of a 20k system usually engenders more emotional response than a failure of a 2k system. Certain brands/makes/models also tend to be used in more dangerous/harsh conditions which will naturally increase their failure rate.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2009, 12:02:53 PM by dougpetersonci » Logged

DOUG PETERSON (dep@digitaltransitions.com), Digital Transitions
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georgl
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« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2009, 12:49:07 PM »
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I agree, don't care too much about those reports. Sadly, there is no scientific testing of camera reliability (same conditions...) available - even car reliability is "measured" with very unreliable sources (driver A drives car A and driver B drives car B without ever having switched A/B but in the end comparing both by asking drivers about their cars...).

- But as every modular system you have to be very careful with the electric contacts, they use bus-systems to communicate which can cause really strange effects when they contacts aren't connected/cleaned properly.

- The people who manufactured the legendary Hasselblad-cameras were mostly fired a few years ago (they had over 400 employees in Göteborg) so don't expect the same kind of mechanical quality by todays cameras.
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vandevanterSH
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« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2009, 10:22:35 PM »
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Note I think most of the H1/H2 components are made by Fuji btw. Not sure but I've been told the H3 as well.
**********
The cameras are made in Sweden and re-badged as Fuji in Japan.  The lenses and prism finder are made in Japan, IIRC the lens shutters are made in Sweden and the backs in Denmark.

Steve
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geesbert
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« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2009, 04:42:25 AM »
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I know there are people who are really happy with their H. Everytime I had to use it I hated it, I hate the viewfinder, I hate the ergonomics and it is impossibble to shoot portrait mode for a longer period. Once a Guy at calumet showed me a few of their rental Hs, all mounts, like back to camera, lens to camera and prism to camera had a lot of play, everything was wobbely. of course this were rental cameras constantly used by people who do not own them, but still, not very encouraging.....

BTW: yet another reason not to rent from Calumet.
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Dick Roadnight
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« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2009, 05:19:32 AM »
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Quote from: vandevanterSH
Note I think most of the H1/H2 components are made by Fuji btw. Not sure but I've been told the H3 as well.
**********
The cameras are made in Sweden and re-badged as Fuji in Japan.  The lenses and prism finder are made in Japan, IIRC the lens shutters are made in Sweden and the backs in Denmark.

Steve
Nice to know that when I put the back on my Sinar, with Schneider lenses, I have a european camera!
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Hasselblad H4, Sinar P3 monorail view camera, Schneider Apo-digitar lenses
JdeV
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« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2009, 11:19:46 AM »
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I've rented H3s a lot and have almost given up because of the amount of times I have had problems. They are much more unreliable than either Canon or Nikon pro bodies which are at least as good as traditional film-based pro equipment. The rental houses will tell you the same. I haven't rented the Phase/Mamiya combo much and I really couldn't tell you if it is any better but I will be doing so in the future.
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woof75
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« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2009, 11:47:16 AM »
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Quote from: JdeV
I've rented H3s a lot and have almost given up because of the amount of times I have had problems. They are much more unreliable than either Canon or Nikon pro bodies which are at least as good as traditional film-based pro equipment. The rental houses will tell you the same. I haven't rented the Phase/Mamiya combo much and I really couldn't tell you if it is any better but I will be doing so in the future.

I never have problems with my mamiya 645 afd and phase P21, shutter goes when it reaches it's lifespan, 300 bucks or so at the repair shop and I'm back up and running.
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jing q
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« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2009, 11:47:39 AM »
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shooting with a h3d.love it.beats my mamiya any day.
not the prettiest camera in the world. but it gets the job done cleanly.
anyway what's the alternative for a camera with high flash sync?
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Carl Glover
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« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2009, 12:50:28 PM »
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anyway what's the alternative for a camera with high flash sync?

The hy6/afi - it goes up to a 1000th of a second.

Also the Rolleiflex 6008 series too...
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2009, 01:15:33 PM »
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Quote from: Carl Glover
anyway what's the alternative for a camera with high flash sync?

The hy6/afi - it goes up to a 1000th of a second.

Also the Rolleiflex 6008 series too...

Also the RZ.
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UlfKrentz
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« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2009, 06:23:03 AM »
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Quote from: PetterStahre
Since I'm not myself an owner of any medium format system, but would like to be in the future, I'm curious what owners think about the build quality of their systems.

In the mag Professional Photographer (UK) august '09 I've just read the article about David Loftus, the (food) photographer who works with Jamie Oliver.

Apart from making me drool over his travel kit (2xH2, P65+, P25+, Hasselblad 500cm with P45) he says: "My H1s and H2s go wrong constantly. I can get through as many as three on a tough, week-long shoot. Hasselblad repairs must be the richest repair shop in the world!".

He also says he gave Jamie "his first Hasselblad a few years ago, but his patience with the problems associated with owning one has long worn thin!". (He's currently "loving the Canon EOS 5D" according to David.)

Is this the state of Hasselblad build quality or has H3 changed anything?

// Petter

Hi,

we own the H-System and use them with Leaf-Backs. Our experience is the camaras need to have service around 50.000 activations, which may be considered as normal. There was the need for service after 20.000 once, one is still working with more than 50.000. The optics are average, the zoom is very sensitive for flarelight, gets kind of foggy very fast, is nice if you like to have it, but it´s terrible if you don´t. Have an extra body for replacement.
If you like the handling you have to decide on your own, but there is no other camera with a leaf shutter system at the moment, right? I don´t like the hasselblad policy of closing their platform for other Digital backs, but this is another story, you can buy used h and h2 Bodies and use other brands of digital backs. Leaf AFI is dead.
You cannot truly compare 35mm DSLR with medium format digital backs. ( But they are getting better...) Take a serious look at the resulting images and make your decision.

If you don´t need autofocus you may take a look at the RZ, quite big and heavy but also nice to work with. You can rotate the back to portrait. These cameras are real work horses, you will have the shutters mantained from time to time.

Cheers

Ulf




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UlfKrentz
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« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2009, 06:28:24 AM »
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Quote from: Carl Glover
anyway what's the alternative for a camera with high flash sync?

The hy6/afi - it goes up to a 1000th of a second.

Also the Rolleiflex 6008 series too...

Hi,

Francke and Heidecke is bankrupt. The Leaf AFI or Sinar or Rolleiflex IS DEAD. You can be glad if the system will be serviced any more. Hope sinar will do this. Leaf belongs the PhaseOne now, crystal ball, tell me all...

Cheers

Ulf
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ThierryH
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« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2009, 06:31:48 AM »
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Dear Ulf,

Sinar does.

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote from: UlfKrentz
The Leaf AFI or Sinar or Rolleiflex IS DEAD. You can be glad if the system will be serviced any more. Hope sinar will do this.
Ulf
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rolleiflexpages
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« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2009, 07:53:47 AM »
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As a new subscriber to this forum I would like to chime in on this one.

Own a Hasselblad H1 plus HC 50-110mm zoom as well as Rolleiflex 6008 AF with Schneider Kreuznach AF lenses. Judging from my experience (hobby, not pro use) the Rolleiflex is more stable and reliable. Of course, all gear can go wrong but if one camera had to be serviced it was the H (al sorts of software upgrades and rejustifications).

On the Franke & Heidecke insolvency and closure, let us see what happens after 30 September. There is still a chance that (parts of) the activities will be continued. Actually, I ordered a Hy6 body just a couple of weeks ago and am now awaiting delivery from them. How is that for confidence?
Meanwhile, Sinar has announced continued service and after-care as well. I cannot believe that the most advanced medium format camera system would not have a future. Yes, it is a pity that Leaf seems to be gone with their AFi, but luckily there is still Sinar.

Pascal
http://www.rolleiflexpages.com
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ThierryH
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« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2009, 08:06:40 AM »
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Here the complete Sinar Press Release, with information about the Hy6 camera system:

15.09.2009
Sinar Photography to take over parts of SINAR AG
Sinar – brand and embodiment of modular analog and digital system solutions for professional photography.

With effect from October 1, 2009, Sinar Photography AG will take over the Development, Sales, Service and Support divisions for the products of the Sinar brand. Sinar Photography originates from Tekno AG, which has already been marketing the Sinar products in Switzerland up to now. By the end of 2009, the entire unit will be established at Farbhofstrasse 21 in Zurich. The move to Zurich will make Sinar even more accessible to its customers in future. The commitment of Stephan Fässler (CEO of the new company Sinar Photography and owner of Tekno AG) and Erich Frefel (Director Marketing & Sales) will ensure continuity of personnel, also in the continuation and further development of the traditional products under the name Sinar Photography. In an initial step, Sinar AG’s mechanical production was spun off and made independent via a management buyout effective July 1, 2009. The mechanical production now operates under the name Femron AG (http://www.femron.ch/). Femron will continue to produce the mechanical cameras and accessories for Sinar Photography.

The German and Swiss markets will be served directly by Sinar Photography from Switzerland, with support from an existing service, repair and sales office in the Hamburg region. Additional sales support offices will be announced shortly.

Sinar Photography will continue to provide professional and expert service for its customers. Service and support for the current Sinar product range are also guaranteed for the future with the new firm Sinar Photography, including the repair, warranty and guarantee service for Sinar view camera systems, the digital backs and the Hy6 and Sinar m medium-format camera systems.

The ongoing product development at Sinar Photography will focus predominantly on the tried-and-tested analog and digital camera systems. This includes the digital backs, the globally renowned Sinar view cameras for studio applications, and the specialist cameras for architecture and document photography. The continuation of the Hy6 medium-format camera is currently under negotiation, but the existing business alliance guarantees long-term technical support.

The Sinar eXposure software, which generates DNG files and has a unique shading function specially for architecture photography, will also be continued by Sinar Photography. The declared goals include opening up the Sinar camera platforms further for the attachment of third-party backs. The Sinar products will continue to be sold worldwide via the established and proven distribution channels.


Best regards,
Thierry

Quote from: rolleiflexpages
Meanwhile, Sinar has announced continued service and after-care as well.
http://www.rolleiflexpages.com
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Juanito
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« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2009, 01:11:49 AM »
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I love my H1. Works great. Bought it used, but have never had a problem. It's a workhorse in my book.

John
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