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Author Topic: Printer Profiles for Epson 9900/7900 with Snow Leopard  (Read 21268 times)
vjbelle
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« on: September 01, 2009, 12:31:30 PM »
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Has anyone tried to profile papers on a 9900/7900 using Snow Leopard?  All of my profiles, so far, have been generated with Leopard (10.5.X) using the work flow of having an untagged target and assigning Generic RGB as the profile and telling the driver to let the printer manage color with the printer driver set to 'No color management'.  Doing this under SL generates a print that is obviously different then the print generated under Leopard.  

However there is another Web article that has different driver settings which have produced identical results to Leopard.  The targets still remain untagged RGB but Photoshop manages color.  The profile used is 'Generic RGB' and the printer color management is turned off.  The printed targets now match what was generated under Leopard.  

Any thoughts?
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Ryan Grayley
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« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2009, 12:53:56 PM »
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Quote from: vjbelle
Has anyone tried to profile papers on a 9900/7900 using Snow Leopard?  All of my profiles, so far, have been generated with Leopard (10.5.X) using the work flow of having an untagged target and assigning Generic RGB as the profile and telling the driver to let the printer manage color with the printer driver set to 'No color management'.  Doing this under SL generates a print that is obviously different then the print generated under Leopard.

There are two workflows you could try assuming Photoshop CS4, MacOSX 10.6 and the latest Epson version 6.55 driver:

Workflow 1.
Use your existing workflow but instead of assigning Generic RGB, assign sRGB.

Workflow 2.
- Open the Colorsync Utility, click on the Devices tab and expand the entry for your 7900/9900.
- The default "Mode" profile should be sRGB if you are using the version 6.55 Epson driver.
- Change the "Current Profile" from sRGB to the profile for the media type you will be using to print the chart.
- Open the chart with CS4 but do not assign a profile.
- Choose "No Color Management" in the Photoshop dialogue.
- Choose "Color Settings: Off" in the print driver dialogue.
- Make sure that the correct media type is chosen so as to match the changes made in CU.

I have tried both methods and they seem to be identical to many previous tests I have tried and documented below.
http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=31410
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Ryan Grayley BA IEng MIET ARPS
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abiggs
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« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2009, 12:10:40 PM »
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Sounds like you may have the dreaded ColorSync bug that has been talked about quite a bit. Check out Wayne's article online:

http://bit.ly/i3LP0

Andy
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Andy Biggs
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digitaldog
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« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2009, 01:34:58 PM »
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Quote from: vjbelle
All of my profiles, so far, have been generated with Leopard (10.5.X) using the work flow of having an untagged target and assigning Generic RGB as the profile and telling the driver to let the printer manage color with the printer driver set to 'No color management'.  Doing this under SL generates a print that is obviously different then the print generated under Leopard.

While I haven't tested building profiles yet, I suspect you should try leaving the target untagged and not assigning Generic RGB and see what happens. I'm also unsure why you're letting Printer Manage Color instead of Application Manage Color.

The print path and display TRC gamma have been updated in 10.6.
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2009, 05:15:53 PM »
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Quote from: abiggs
Sounds like you may have the dreaded ColorSync bug that has been talked about quite a bit. Check out Wayne's article online:
http://bit.ly/i3LP0

Wayne's article draws on my findings (in the linked thread above) which were in turn inspired by the the ABW discussions on the Adobe Photoshop CS4 forum and the Colorsync Utility workaround discussions on the Adobe Lightroom forum that go back to December 2007. However, Wayne's article is now slightly out of date as the recent Epson driver update to version 6.55 changes some of the behaviour in the Colorsync Utility. Workflow 2 above updates the CU workaround for Epson driver 6.55.

(  http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=31410  )

Quote from: digitaldog
While I haven't tested building profiles yet, I suspect you should try leaving the target untagged and not assigning Generic RGB and see what happens.

Unfortunately this is still not the case. I have tested the traditional method for printing charts with Snow Leopard + Photoshop CS4 + Epson driver 6.55 and as with Leopard + Photoshop CS4 + driver 6.39 the results are still not exactly as would be  expected unless a Colorsync Utility workaround is first applied.

BTW, assigning sRGB to the target is exactly how Lightroom automatically handles untagged images. If an untagged target is opened and printed with Lightroom set to  Printer Manages Colours and the Print Driver Colour Management set to off then the resulting target is printed correctly under Snow Leopard.

My preferred method for printing targets is to continue with Photoshop CS1. It still prints the targets correctly under Snow Leopard and Epson driver version 6.55. (Sadly, my installation of CS1 cannot directly see any printer profiles under Snow Leopard whether soft proofing or printing but it can open and understand CS4 saved custom soft proof psf files which seem to have the relevant printer profile embedded.)
« Last Edit: September 05, 2009, 03:37:02 AM by Ionaca » Logged

Ryan Grayley BA IEng MIET ARPS
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vjbelle
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« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2009, 03:32:26 AM »
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Quote from: Ionaca
There are two workflows you could try assuming Photoshop CS4, MacOSX 10.6 and the latest Epson version 6.55 driver:

Workflow 1.
Use your existing workflow but instead of assigning Generic RGB, assign sRGB.

Workflow 2.
- Open the Colorsync Utility, click on the Devices tab and expand the entry for your 7900/9900.
- The default "Mode" profile should be sRGB if you are using the version 6.55 Epson driver.
- Change the "Current Profile" from sRGB to the profile for the media type you will be using to print the chart.
- Open the chart with CS4 but do not assign a profile.
- Choose "No Color Management" in the Photoshop dialogue.
- Choose "Color Settings: Off" in the print driver dialogue.
- Make sure that the correct media type is chosen so as to match the changes made in CU.

I have tried both methods and they seem to be identical to many previous tests I have tried and documented below.
http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=31410

I am assuming that your workflow 1. has 'Printer manages Color' in the Photoshop dialogue and 'Color settings off' in the Printer dialogue.

I would try your workflow 2 but I can't seem to find or point Colorsync to the correct paper profile.  Epson's native profiles are nowhere to be found on my Mac.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2009, 03:34:08 AM by vjbelle » Logged
Wayne Fox
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« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2009, 03:01:35 PM »
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Quote from: Ionaca
Wayne's article draws on my findings (in the linked thread above) which were in turn inspired by the the ABW discussions on the Adobe Photoshop CS4 forum and the Colorsync Utility workaround discussions on the Adobe Lightroom forum that go back to December 2007. However, Wayne's article is now slightly out of date as the recent Epson driver update to version 6.55 changes some of the behaviour in the Colorsync Utility. Workflow 2 above updates the CU workaround for Epson driver 6.55.

I'm not sure which update has changed the behavior mentioned with ColorSync, but you are right.  My test machine with Snow Leopard happens to be the one that drives my 7900.  It seems likely this behavior change is due to the new Epson Driver, but I can't rule out Snow Leopard affecting it as well.

Anyway, Epson Premium Luster is no longer the "default" ColorSync profile for the 7900/9900 printer. In my ColorSync Utility sRGB is now a profile listed with the Epson 7900 printer .. not genericRGB but sRGB ...  and it is now the Default ColorSync Profile.  Whether resetting this default to point to a different profile (as described in the article) will have the same results as it did when Epson Premium Luster was the default is uncertain.  I also have found a couple of other anomalies in my Library folder, including a new folder called Inkjet 2.  This may be due to a problem with the installation of the new driver.

As I mentioned I haven't had time to make sense of it yet, sounds like Ryan is further along in trying to figure it out.  My 7900 printer operated just fine after installing Snow Leopard.  I didn't run into the problems mentioned by Mark Dubovoy, probably because I had already installed Rosetta because of a non photo related application.  

It is encouraging that someone was able to get get Epson and Apple to listen, and because of this future updates for the driver will be available through Apple and the OS (thankyou Mark) ... now if they would both just figure out how to resolve these problems with disabling color management so we wouldn't have to jump through these hoops to use ABW or print unmanaged targets.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2009, 03:37:10 PM »
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In my ColorSync Utility sRGB is now a profile listed with the Epson 7900 printer .. not genericRGB but sRGB ... and it is now the Default ColorSync Profile.

Considering Generic RGB has a 1.8 TRC Gamma while sRGB has a 2.2 which now matches the OS, it makes sense to me that the driver would associate sRGB in the CS utility.
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2009, 03:43:32 PM »
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The changes I tested between 10.5 and 10.6 were associated with Printer Manages color, not Application Manages color.

I proved that the new behavior in 10.6 is the correct behavior! By using an sRGB source file, setting Photoshop to "No Color Management" and the Epson Driver to "Standard (sRGB)" I found that 10.5.7 and 10.6 produced the same result after measuring output and comparing the deltaE in ColorThink. As we know using this setting, the RGB data is passed directly to the driver unchanged we were able to use this as a reference. Comparing this to the data gathered using "Printer Manages Color" in 10.5.7 and 10.6  it proved that the OS was not interpreting the sRGB hand-off from PS correctly. In 10.6 the result does match when we use this setting. So it looks like Apple fixed a bug here.
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2009, 07:49:06 PM »
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Quote from: digitaldog
The changes I tested between 10.5 and 10.6 were associated with Printer Manages color, not Application Manages color.

I proved that the new behavior in 10.6 is the correct behavior! By using an sRGB source file, setting Photoshop to "No Color Management" and the Epson Driver to "Standard (sRGB)" I found that 10.5.7 and 10.6 produced the same result after measuring output and comparing the deltaE in ColorThink. As we know using this setting, the RGB data is passed directly to the driver unchanged we were able to use this as a reference. Comparing this to the data gathered using "Printer Manages Color" in 10.5.7 and 10.6  it proved that the OS was not interpreting the sRGB hand-off from PS correctly. In 10.6 the result does match when we use this setting. So it looks like Apple fixed a bug here.


So what happens if you want neither to manage color?  Is this being handled correctly in Snow Leopard/CS4 now?
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Ryan Grayley
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« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2009, 05:32:14 AM »
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Quote from: vjbelle
I am assuming that your workflow 1. has 'Printer manages Color' in the Photoshop dialogue and 'Color settings off' in the Printer dialogue.

That is correct.


Quote from: vjbelle
I would try your workflow 2 but I can't seem to find or point Colorsync to the correct paper profile.  Epson's native profiles are nowhere to be found on my Mac.

They can be found using the following steps:
1. Locate the the file below:
/Library/Printers/EPSON/InkjetPrinter/ICCProfiles/Pro9900_7900.profiles

2. "Control-click" on the file and then select "Show Package Contents"

3. In the new window, navigate to the location below:
Contents/Resources/

4. Here you should find the profiles for your Epson 7900/9900.

5. To make life a bit easier, I made a copy of my profiles to the location below:
/Library/ColorSync/Profiles
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vjbelle
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« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2009, 07:51:19 AM »
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Quote from: Ionaca
That is correct.




They can be found using the following steps:
1. Locate the the file below:
/Library/Printers/EPSON/InkjetPrinter/ICCProfiles/Pro9900_7900.profiles

2. "Control-click" on the file and then select "Show Package Contents"

3. In the new window, navigate to the location below:
Contents/Resources/

4. Here you should find the profiles for your Epson 7900/9900.

5. To make life a bit easier, I made a copy of my profiles to the location below:
/Library/ColorSync/Profiles
Thanks an awful lot for your help!
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abiggs
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« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2009, 08:36:22 AM »
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If printing from Photoshop, why would you ever want to have the printer manage colors?
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Andy Biggs
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« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2009, 04:55:22 PM »
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Quote from: abiggs
If printing from Photoshop, why would you ever want to have the printer manage colors?

Usually this is a workaround for ABW printing, or to print unmanaged targets for profiling.  this has been a challenge for those printing from Leopard and CS4 for some time.
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abiggs
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« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2009, 05:45:07 PM »
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So what you are saying is that the problem isn't with the normal operation of just sending an RGB color image to the printer, but rather just the printing of targets for profiling?

If this is the case, I need to go back and check my methodology, as my problem could only be the resulting profiles, but not my printing workflow. In other words, I could print my targets from OSX Tiger, create the profile, and then use the profiles as normal from CS4 / Leopard or Snow Leopard.
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« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2009, 09:56:51 AM »
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Quote from: abiggs
So what you are saying is that the problem isn't with the normal operation of just sending an RGB color image to the printer, but rather just the printing of targets for profiling?
That seems to be the case. Last week I printed a tagged image in the normal way with Snow Leopard,  Photoshop CS4 and Epson 7900 driver version 6.55. The results were fine. I have only had problems printing untagged test charts with the combination of Leopard or Snow Leopard and Photoshop CS4.

Quote from: abiggs
If this is the case, I need to go back and check my methodology, as my problem could only be the resulting profiles, but not my printing workflow. In other words, I could print my targets from OSX Tiger, create the profile, and then use the profiles as normal from CS4 / Leopard or Snow Leopard.
I haven't fully tested Tiger and Photoshop CS4 so I don't know if this combination is ok.
However, the first page of the thread below reveals the combinations that have been ok for me and I have been using these as bench marks.

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=31410
« Last Edit: September 07, 2009, 09:57:12 AM by Ionaca » Logged

Ryan Grayley BA IEng MIET ARPS
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« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2009, 12:35:17 PM »
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Quote from: Ionaca
That seems to be the case. Last week I printed a tagged image in the normal way with Snow Leopard,  Photoshop CS4 and Epson 7900 driver version 6.55. The results were fine. I have only had problems printing untagged test charts with the combination of Leopard or Snow Leopard and Photoshop CS4.

Its certainly not the case printing untagged targets to an Epson 2880 using CS4. Printed a TC918 target for an iSis in both 10.5.8 and 10.6, the report from ColorThink indicates the difference here are tiny and attributed to measurement variance for such a Spectrophotometer:


Overall - (924 colors)
--------------------------------------------------
Average dE:   0.16
    Max dE:   0.92
    Min dE:   0.01
 StdDev dE:   0.13

Best 90% - (831 colors)
--------------------------------------------------
Average dE:   0.13
    Max dE:   0.30
    Min dE:   0.01
 StdDev dE:   0.07

Worst 10% - (93 colors)
--------------------------------------------------
Average dE:   0.47
    Max dE:   0.92
    Min dE:   0.30
 StdDev dE:   0.15

--------------------------------------------------
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vjbelle
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« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2009, 01:48:36 PM »
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Quote from: digitaldog
Its certainly not the case printing untagged targets to an Epson 2880 using CS4. Printed a TC918 target for an iSis in both 10.5.8 and 10.6, the report from ColorThink indicates the difference here are tiny and attributed to measurement variance for such a Spectrophotometer:

What driver and printer settings were used?
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vjbelle
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« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2009, 01:57:05 PM »
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Quote from: Ionaca
That seems to be the case. Last week I printed a tagged image in the normal way with Snow Leopard,  Photoshop CS4 and Epson 7900 driver version 6.55. The results were fine. I have only had problems printing untagged test charts with the combination of Leopard or Snow Leopard and Photoshop CS4.

To clarify:  You assigned Generic RGB for Leopard and sRGB for SL and in both instances the settings were "Printer manages color" in the Photoshop dialogue and "No color management" in the Printer dialogue and the results were identical?

Is this correct?

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« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2009, 02:00:06 PM »
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Quote from: vjbelle
What driver and printer settings were used?


6.20. No Color Adjustment for output. IF for whatever odd reason you guys are using Color Controls, well it makes sense there'd be a difference.

Just did the same test with a 4800 printer, using the same target and Spectrophotometer with the same settings above:

Overall - (924 colors)
--------------------------------------------------
Average dE:   0.35
    Max dE:   1.22
    Min dE:   0.01
 StdDev dE:   0.23

Best 90% - (831 colors)
--------------------------------------------------
Average dE:   0.29
    Max dE:   0.66
    Min dE:   0.01
 StdDev dE:   0.15

Worst 10% - (93 colors)
--------------------------------------------------
Average dE:   0.87
    Max dE:   1.22
    Min dE:   0.66
 StdDev dE:   0.15

--------------------------------------------------

The numbers for max deltaE (a few blue patches) above will be lower if I gave the target, which just came out of the printer an hour+ to dry down. But bottom line is, with a 2880 (80 series) and 4800 (00 series), both OSs treat untagged data the same way.
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Andrew Rodney
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