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Author Topic: Wide Gamut Displays and web color  (Read 12234 times)
AS1
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« on: September 04, 2009, 10:28:58 AM »
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I have the NEC 2690 display; it looks fantastic in PS and Bridge. I calibrated it using the included Spectravision calibrator (6500, 140, 2.2 and I'm using a Mac).
When I look at websites the color looks oversaturated, especially reds; I thought that Firefox and Safari were color managed browsers and so even on a wide gamut display, they would give more accurate color? Is this true.
Is there a way around this, besides going to the NEC menu and changing it to sRGB for looking at web stuff, or making an sRGB display profile that I can switch back and forth from in the Apple System Preferences?
Does Snow Leopard fix any of these issues with wide gamut displays?

Thanks for any insight!

Alan.
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Czornyj
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« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2009, 11:10:36 AM »
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Safari only manages colors of tagget content

Firefox can manage colors of all graphic content, but you must activate CMM at first:

- write "abuot:config" in adress bar, and press enter, click ok.
- gfx.color_management.enabled = true (enables CMM)
- gfx.color_management.mode = 1 (enables color management for all graphic content)
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JeffKohn
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« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2009, 12:06:28 PM »
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Note that Firefox 3.5's color management has some rather significant flaws, but at least it's better than IE or other browsers.

- ICC-v4 profiles are not supported
- LUT-base ICC-v2 profiles are not supported in original 3.5 release, make sure you update to 3.5.2
- If you set color mgmt to '2' only tagged content will be color managed, untagged content such as HTML backgrounds will still be over-saturated.
- If you set color mgmt to '1' everything gets managed, but un-tagged content such as HTML backgrounds will look wrong on wide-gamut displays (hue will be off, but at least the colors won't be over-saturated)
« Last Edit: September 04, 2009, 12:06:47 PM by JeffKohn » Logged

dmerger
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« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2009, 02:07:07 PM »
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Im using Firefox version 3.5.2 and Windows XP Pro.  After entering "abuot:config" in address bar, pressing enter, and clicking ok, under gfx.color I get the following:

Preference Name ..........................................                                 Status    .....           Type   .....          Value

gfx.color_management.display_profile ...............     default   .....        string  

gfx.color_management.mode; ........................                  user set ......         integer .....          1

gfx.color_management.rendering_intent ...........    default .....            integer .....           0

Am I correct that I have Firefox set to manage tagged and un-tagged content?  I dont see gfx.color_management.enabled = true like Czornyi indicates.  As far as I can tell, and by looking at a test image, I think Im all set.

Dean
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Dean Erger
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« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2009, 02:25:09 PM »
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Quote from: dmerger
Am I correct that I have Firefox set to manage tagged and un-tagged content?  I dont see gfx.color_management.enabled = true like Czornyi indicates.  As far as I can tell, and by looking at a test image, I think Im all set.

That's correct. The "gfx.color_management.enabled" preference had to be set as "true" in previous FF versions.

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AS1
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« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2009, 10:04:54 AM »
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Quote from: Czornyj
That's correct. The "gfx.color_management.enabled" preference had to be set as "true" in previous FF versions.

I have tried the changes to Firefox but it doesn't seem to make a difference on my display (web color is still over saturated). Are you using a wide gamut display?
(if I select a Jpeg image in Bridge, and then preview it in Adobe Media Gallery (Browser Preview) the color is dramatically oversaturated).

Do I need to create a separate profile for viewing the web with this monitor?

Thanks for any help,
Alan.

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JeffKohn
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« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2009, 10:45:40 AM »
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I have tried the changes to Firefox but it doesn't seem to make a difference on my display (web color is still over saturated).
It could be that you have an ICCv4 profile for your monitor. Check your profling software and see if it gives you the choice of v2 or v4 (unfortunately, some don't).

Quote
(if I select a Jpeg image in Bridge, and then preview it in Adobe Media Gallery (Browser Preview) the color is dramatically oversaturated).
AMG could be using IE instead of Firefox, maybe? I don't know how AMG works but I'm not sure if FireFox can be embedded within other apps the way IE can.
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Arlen
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« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2009, 10:57:31 AM »
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I have the same monitor as you, and I had a similar problem with Firefox v. 3.5.0 on Windows XP. After installing v. 3.5.2, and setting "gfx.color_management.mode; ........................ user set ...... integer ..... 1", sRGB images (whether tagged or untagged) display normally, and look like they do in Photoshop. I'm right-clicking on the file name, and choosing "Open with Firefox". If I choose "Open withe IE", or another unmanaged browser, then I get the same oversaturated results you do.
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AS1
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« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2009, 11:17:37 AM »
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Quote from: JeffKohn
It could be that you have an ICCv4 profile for your monitor. Check your profling software and see if it gives you the choice of v2 or v4 (unfortunately, some don't).

AMG could be using IE instead of Firefox, maybe? I don't know how AMG works but I'm not sure if FireFox can be embedded within other apps the way IE can.

Well, according to this test I must be unable to use v4 profiles......

http://www.color.org/version4html.xalter

I'll see if there's an option in the Spectravision Calibration software to make a v2 profile? Does that make sense?

Thanks,
Alan.
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Arkady
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« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2009, 11:37:16 AM »
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Quote from: AS1
Well, according to this test I must be unable to use v4 profiles......

http://www.color.org/version4html.xalter

I'll see if there's an option in the Spectravision Calibration software to make a v2 profile? Does that make sense?

Alan, the ICC test is for the color management system and not your monitor profile. Namely if you CMS is capable processing v4 and v2 profile you will see the image without color inversion if only v2 supported you will see the bottom part without colorinversion.

I thought (I might be wrong because I don't use Mac) there is a way to check the version of the profile. However, I'm pretty much sure it is v2 by default. V4 is not yet widely enough supported to put it as default.
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Arlen
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« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2009, 12:32:37 PM »
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I'm using Spectraview II v.1.1.00, and color management is working in Firefox; so the default monitor profile it generates does not seem to be a problem, at least on Windows XP. And I don't see an option in Spectraview to select the version of the profile it generates.

Are you sure you are using the latest version of Firefox, v. 3.5.2? Some color management problems were addressed in the latest release.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2009, 12:36:22 PM by Arlen » Logged
Czornyj
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« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2009, 02:41:04 PM »
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In Spectraview Profiler 4 there's a choice between v.2 and v.4 type profile, so it might be an issue.
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AS1
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« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2009, 05:45:50 PM »
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Quote from: Czornyj
In Spectraview Profiler 4 there's a choice between v.2 and v.4 type profile, so it might be an issue.
I'm using the Spectra View II (latest version 1.1.03), but I don't see any option to select between v2 and v4 profiles (I'm using a Mac Pro, OS 10.5.8 .... and I have Firefox 3.5.2). Could this be only for Windows?
Appreciate the help though.

Alan.
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Josh-H
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« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2009, 06:46:38 PM »
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Quote from: AS1
I'm using the Spectra View II (latest version 1.1.03), but I don't see any option to select between v2 and v4 profiles (I'm using a Mac Pro, OS 10.5.8 .... and I have Firefox 3.5.2). Could this be only for Windows?
Appreciate the help though.

Alan.

In the target settings area you can select SRGB emulation from the drop down box. You need to re-calibrate for this mode - but once you have done so you can flick between your normal Wide gamut calibration and SRGB Emulation pretty easily.

Mac OSX Snow Leopard / Mac Pro / 2690 Wuxi / SpectraView V. 1.1.03
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JeffKohn
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« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2009, 08:47:34 PM »
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Quote from: AS1
Well, according to this test I must be unable to use v4 profiles......

http://www.color.org/version4html.xalter
This test doesn't tell you anything about your monitor profile, but it does show that FireFox doesn't support v4 profiles.

Quote
I'll see if there's an option in the Spectravision Calibration software to make a v2 profile? Does that make sense?
It does make sense, but the software may or may not give you the option. I use an Eizo display and its ColorNavigator software only generates v4 profiles.
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AS1
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« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2009, 10:21:57 PM »
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Quote from: Josh-H
In the target settings area you can select SRGB emulation from the drop down box. You need to re-calibrate for this mode - but once you have done so you can flick between your normal Wide gamut calibration and SRGB Emulation pretty easily.

Mac OSX Snow Leopard / Mac Pro / 2690 Wuxi / SpectraView V. 1.1.03

Josh,
are you flicking back and forth using the menu on the side of the NEC display, or the System Preferences > Displays > Color etc?
Also, have you noticed any improvement using Snow Leopard?
Thanks,
Alan.
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Josh-H
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« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2009, 10:27:28 PM »
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Quote from: AS1
Josh,
are you flicking back and forth using the menu on the side of the NEC display, or the System Preferences > Displays > Color etc?
Also, have you noticed any improvement using Snow Leopard?
Thanks,
Alan.

You change back and forth in the SpectraView II software.

Snow Leopard is faster than Leopard by a good deal.
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Arlen
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« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2009, 10:43:58 AM »
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Josh, since you're on a Mac and have essentially the same setup as the OP (other than Snow Leopard), do you see the same problem of overly saturated colors when you are not in sRGB emulation mode? I'm not having the problem on Windows XP, so I assume the Spectraview software is not generating v.4 profiles, at least with this operating system.
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Arlen
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« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2009, 11:14:14 AM »
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Looking back at some web references I had bookmarked some months ago, I see that Mac operating systems have some additional issues with web color management. This site goes into great detail on web browser color management: Web Browser Color Management. I didn't reread the whole thing, but you might see if the Mac issues it discusses apply to your case. Since some users (like me) are reporting that Firefox v. 3.5.2 fixed their browser color management problem, but it didn't help others, maybe the difference is based on operating systems?
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AS1
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« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2009, 12:23:47 AM »
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Quote from: Arlen
Looking back at some web references I had bookmarked some months ago, I see that Mac operating systems have some additional issues with web color management. This site goes into great detail on web browser color management: Web Browser Color Management. I didn't reread the whole thing, but you might see if the Mac issues it discusses apply to your case. Since some users (like me) are reporting that Firefox v. 3.5.2 fixed their browser color management problem, but it didn't help others, maybe the difference is based on operating systems?
For anyone still willing to endure the torture....
Here's an example of what I'm seeing in two different set ups 1.Eizo display and 2.NEC 2690 WUXi

[attachment=16487:Eizo.jpg]
[attachment=16488:NEC.jpg]


The image is the same file, a jpeg, sRGB.

From left to right: Image on my own web site viewed in Firefox or Safari; then same image in PS CS4; then same image where I just dragged it onto the Safari icon to open it using Safari

The Eizo display shows all images looking pretty much the same. That's fine, what you'd expect.
The NEC (wide gamut display) shows the PS version AND oddly the version I just dragged onto the Firefox icon the same, as I'd expect. The "live" website version is very saturated, especially red and green.

Could this be a Flash issue (I think my website from Livebooks uses Flash)? Could the oversaturated color I'm seeing on web sites be from content created using Flash?

Alan.
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