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Author Topic: Sinar trades under the name "Sinar Photography" as of October  (Read 11929 times)
tho_mas
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« on: September 10, 2009, 05:46:02 AM »
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http://www.photoscala.de/Artikel/Aus-Sinar...nar-Photography
Google-Translation: http://tinyurl.com/o9kb4j

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Dick Roadnight
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« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2009, 05:56:50 AM »
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Quote from: tho_mas
Does this mean that I will be able to put a Hasselblad 60 Mpx back on a Sinar M system?
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2009, 06:32:29 AM »
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Am I imagining things or does this article imply that the Hy6 will continue?
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tho_mas
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« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2009, 06:38:12 AM »
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Quote from: foto-z
Am I imagining things or does this article imply that the Hy6 will continue?
my reading is that service for the Hy6 will be continued but for further development they will focus on "view cameras for studio photography and the specific cameras for architectural photography and documents."
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heinrichvoelkel
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« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2009, 07:03:30 AM »
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Quote from: tho_mas
my reading is that service for the Hy6 will be continued but for further development they will focus on "view cameras for studio photography and the specific cameras for architectural photography and documents."

i read the same...
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ThierryH
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« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2009, 07:10:50 AM »
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So it is.

Thierry

Quote from: tho_mas
my reading is that service for the Hy6 will be continued but for further development they will focus on "view cameras for studio photography and the specific cameras for architectural photography and documents."
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E_Edwards
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« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2009, 07:58:17 AM »
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Absolutely where Sinar should be. Focusing on a niche market and being the best at it.

Edward



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bcooter
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« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2009, 08:21:00 AM »
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Quote from: ThierryH
So it is.

Thierry


The HY6 never had a chance.

No expensive camera system, 35mm to medium format, can make it on a professional level if it's not in rental and doesn't have a full lens line of autofocus lenses.

You can work around not having leaf shutters, you can do the uncomfortable without right angle grips, but simple things like prisms, wide angles, autofocus that is accurate and the ability to rent specialty items or backup in major markets isn't an elective, it's a must.

The HY6/AFI came out with a lot of fanfare, pdf's and promises, but it never had any penetration in the no excuses, heavy production professional world, because it had key elements missing.

This was true in 2008 more true today where production expectations have been doubled.

There was a period where all of us were willing to believe and take the chance that everything promised would come, but not anymore, it's just too competitive at all levels to take any chances.

Also Phase One wasn't on board with the HY6.  The medium format market is too small to exclude anyone and the cameras and backs too expensive not to be complete the moment they are announced.

So they can do all the petitions they want, I'm sure a few collectors will hang on to their cameras but in the world of professional balls to the wall photography, for medium format it's Hasselblad cameras (maybe not always backs, but cameras), Nikon and Canon.

That's it and probably always will be.  

The only exceptions to this is Leica who seems to have an affluent customer base and RED who right now offers a cinema style product that no one can match on price, though even RED has cameras in rental and using a lens mount that allows for almost any focal length needed.

BC
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tho_mas
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« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2009, 08:27:03 AM »
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Quote from: bcooter
in the world of professional balls to the wall photography, for medium format it's Hasselblad cameras (maybe not always backs, but cameras), Nikon and Canon.
Mamiya doesn't play a role in that market? (I've no idea...)
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PdF
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« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2009, 08:32:49 AM »
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Quote from: foto-z
Am I imagining things or does this article imply that the Hy6 will continue?

For me, it the opposite. It is the definitive funeral of the Hy6, behind assuaging comments.

 I hope that the fate(spell) of Sinar Photography will not be same as this one of Agfa Photo.

PdF


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PeterA
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« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2009, 09:26:23 AM »
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Quote from: bcooter
The HY6 never had a chance.

No expensive camera system, 35mm to medium format, can make it on a professional level if it's not in rental and doesn't have a full lens line of autofocus lenses.

You can work around not having leaf shutters, you can do the uncomfortable without right angle grips, but simple things like prisms, wide angles, autofocus that is accurate and the ability to rent specialty items or backup in major markets isn't an elective, it's a must.

The HY6/AFI came out with a lot of fanfare, pdf's and promises, but it never had any penetration in the no excuses, heavy production professional world, because it had key elements missing.

This was true in 2008 more true today where production expectations have been doubled.

There was a period where all of us were willing to believe and take the chance that everything promised would come, but not anymore, it's just too competitive at all levels to take any chances.

Also Phase One wasn't on board with the HY6.  The medium format market is too small to exclude anyone and the cameras and backs too expensive not to be complete the moment they are announced.

So they can do all the petitions they want, I'm sure a few collectors will hang on to their cameras but in the world of professional balls to the wall photography, for medium format it's Hasselblad cameras (maybe not always backs, but cameras), Nikon and Canon.

That's it and probably always will be.  

The only exceptions to this is Leica who seems to have an affluent customer base and RED who right now offers a cinema style product that no one can match on price, though even RED has cameras in rental and using a lens mount that allows for almost any focal length needed.

BC


This pretty much defines exactly why MF is a dead horse anyway. Selling cameras into a rental market for the impossible to please pro and his/her retinue of assistants  who treat rental gear like disposable nappies is a good way to go broke ... hey gee ring ring dong dong - thats exactly what is happening to all the rental houses isnt it?

the Hy6 was just too late to the market. it is sad for people like me who actually bought into it - but hey if thats the worst thing that ever happens to me - I will be blessed. The fact is that the Sinar 75LVr is a damn good back, the Rollie mount lenses from Schneider are the best MF 6x6 glass I have used and the body is/was  probably two or three firmware upgrades away from the best in the business. In the meantime it is a fun system to muck around with and shoot real photography - not the crapola dressed up as pro shooting that is overlit and over processed DROSS displayed on here by wannabe pro shooters.- gimme a break ( apologies to the few talented and patient peopel who do post- you know who you are)

As for Phase One yeah they make backs as good as hasselblad and Leaf and Sinar - so what? The total market was at its height 10K units global on rip -off prices and sorry phase One isnt any better than anyone else.

People make snide comments about quality companies in internet forums all the time - look at the typical smart alec nastiness about Seal being enthusiastic about a camera brand on another thread in this forum - internet forums are just not nice places , and internet chit chat from working pros is as useful to MF companies as tits on a bull. Who cares about what professional shooters want? I mean who cares? The faster the MF digital back makers recognise that the real market is EXACTLY where Leica is aiming at - the better their chances are of surviving.

hey nothing personal - I like your typical post- it is more sensible than the typical so called 'pro - shooter blather I laugh about on here.

PS Sinar - IF/WHEN  you make an Artec - that uses an adapter system ala Alpa - to allow me to use ANY back I want to use - when I want to use it - I will buy one. Sorry I cant 'risk' 20K on a camera mount and two lenses - when the digitl back  may not be around to be mounted in a year or three. NOT allowing  for this basic functionaity was a fatal design error - much worse than the clunky tripod mount and lack of built in nodal point shooting calibration. I guess thats what you get when you listen too much to an architectural shooter who just shoots flat - no offence to the shooter btw - he does great work. But designing the best technical camera out there and then shutting out people who don't use your back or Leafs? WOW that was a really DUMB idea. -
« Last Edit: September 10, 2009, 09:46:30 AM by PeterA » Logged
heinrichvoelkel
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« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2009, 09:37:48 AM »
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PHOTO ZARA
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« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2009, 10:43:18 AM »
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Quote from: PeterA
PS Sinar - IF/WHEN  you make an Artec - that uses an adapter system ala Alpa - to allow me to use ANY back I want to use - when I want to use it - I will buy one. Sorry I cant 'risk' 20K on a camera mount and two lenses - when the digitl back  may not be around to be mounted in a year or three. NOT allowing  for this basic functionaity was a fatal design error - much worse than the clunky tripod mount and lack of built in nodal point shooting calibration. I guess thats what you get when you listen too much to an architectural shooter who just shoots flat - no offence to the shooter btw - he does great work. But designing the best technical camera out there and then shutting out people who don't use your back or Leafs? WOW that was a really DUMB idea. -


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ThierryH
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« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2009, 10:47:32 AM »
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Peter,

may be you don't know it by now, but any back "Hasselblad V" mount can fit the arTec since quite a while now, and other mounts are planed and to come.

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote from: PeterA
PS Sinar - IF/WHEN  you make an Artec - that uses an adapter system ala Alpa - to allow me to use ANY back I want to use - when I want to use it - I will buy one. Sorry I cant 'risk' 20K on a camera mount and two lenses - when the digitl back  may not be around to be mounted in a year or three. NOT allowing  for this basic functionaity was a fatal design error - much worse than the clunky tripod mount and lack of built in nodal point shooting calibration. I guess thats what you get when you listen too much to an architectural shooter who just shoots flat - no offence to the shooter btw - he does great work. But designing the best technical camera out there and then shutting out people who don't use your back or Leafs? WOW that was a really DUMB idea. -
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EricWHiss
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« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2009, 12:07:12 PM »
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Quote from: tho_mas
my reading is that service for the Hy6 will be continued but for further development they will focus on "view cameras for studio photography and the specific cameras for architectural photography and documents."


So if Sinar, Jenoptic, and Phase (Leaf) are not pursuing the Hy6/AFi platform moving ahead does that mean that the technology is available for some other group to pick it up perhaps for a song?
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KLaban
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« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2009, 12:24:22 PM »
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Quote from: PeterA
This pretty much defines exactly why MF is a dead horse anyway. Selling cameras into a rental market for the impossible to please pro and his/her retinue of assistants  who treat rental gear like disposable nappies is a good way to go broke ... hey gee ring ring dong dong - thats exactly what is happening to all the rental houses isnt it?

Can't speak for the land down under, but here in the UK the rental house of choice is Hasselblad, in the form of the Procentre. Had a brochure through just this morning listing everything any H user could ever want to hire.
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Dick Roadnight
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« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2009, 12:28:03 PM »
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Quote from: ThierryH
Peter,

may be you don't know it by now, but any back "Hasselblad V" mount can fit the arTec since quite a while now, and other mounts are planed and to come.

Best regards,
Thierry
Including Hasselblad H3D?

It would be nice if we had the option of using the best back on the best cameras... the M/P3 I mean.
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pcunite
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« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2009, 12:44:26 PM »
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Quote from: PeterA
Who cares about what professional shooters want? I mean who cares? The faster the MF digital back makers recognise that the real market is EXACTLY where Leica is aiming at - the better their chances are of surviving.

I don't know if your joking or being serious. We will soon see which approach was correct in as few as two years I would think. It is going to get interesting. Leica's current pyramid strategy (you know where you get the first celebrity who then gets other celebrities) might prove to be a good move for them. Then all the Annie Leibovitz's of the world can aspire to be like them and while they earn their way to greatness purchase M9 instead. The rest of us? Swamp water...
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ThierryH
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« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2009, 01:35:24 PM »
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I don't know in detail concerning the H3D and can't speak for Sinar, but I would guess that H/H2 are certainly planed.

Thierry

Quote from: Dick Roadnight
Including Hasselblad H3D?

It would be nice if we had the option of using the best back on the best cameras... the M/P3 I mean.
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ynp
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« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2009, 02:06:18 PM »
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Good news at last.
Now I hope Sinar will be able to build a Rollei AF Module for the M system.   It is a shame that the 6008 lenses are orphaned now.
Yevgeny
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