Who Pays?

[Northern Lights]

After reading the most recent topic on Michael Johnston's Online Photographer, it made me wonder again a question I had when I saw Michael Reichmann mention, in his recent review, that he and a few select others were invited to Germany to see the new M9.  Maybe I missed it, but I don't think it said who pays for such a trip?  Shouldn't the fact that either the reviewer paid for it entirely, or the manufacturer paid for it entirely, or there was some mixing of payments, be disclosed with the review?  In any case, I think this information is important in order for us to judge the reviews we read, but it is usually not provided to the reader.  Maybe this should change?   Can you tell us who paid for this trip to Germany, Michael?  What do others think?  (And I should note, I am a 25-year-plus Leica user, I own too many film Ms and lenses and an M8, and will buy an M9 when funds allow...so this isn't about the M9, but is about the mechanics of product reviewing in general.)

[wolfnowl]

I believe Michael has always made it clear that he doesn't accept 'freebies' from companies.  If that's not enough, from David Farkas' blog:

"Then, I was offered the chance to actually shoot an S2.

How could I refuse such a unique opportunity? I cashed in the frequent flyer miles, cleared my schedule, and prepared for some serious fun. "

It might be a valid concern with some (hypothetical) reviewer, but I trust Michael's integrity.

Mike.

[Northern Lights]

I am glad to hear that is the case here, then.  But I'd still like to know in general how this works, and if all the reviewers invited to Germany are as ethical as Michael is.  Plus, I think he (MR) should still add this information to his reviews so any reader, such as myself, can see it.  I don't read this site everyday, or completely, so didn't see the line you gave for his S2 review (and it seems that was actually posted elsewhere?).  I am sure there are many like me.  So I'd recommend an "My reviews are made at my own expense, and I don't accept free equipment. travel, or other perqs from manufacturers" or something like that at the end of every review...but thanks again for the quote.  And I'd still love for Michael to tell us about what he sees with other reviewers...?

[DPL]

European Union has quite strict Competition law. Even after receiving some education on this – I just can say that it might have been of relevance here. Any of such invitation (IF it was an all-inclusive invitation at all) was probably monitored and agreed by the legal department of Leica. They would be dimwitted to ignore this.

So I’d expect that amusement and entertainment where quite limited,
except seeing and being informed about the new products.
The transatlantic flights itself, unlike common believe, can neither be seen as desirable nor as an incentive (as far as I can tell).

Peter

--

[DarkPenguin]

Did you see that Sean Reid is suing Johnston over this?

[michael]

Because this is a topic fraught with pitfalls, and because I can not speak for anyone but myself, I'll answer it this way.

Companies want to get their message out. Once a product ships and anyone can buy a sample and write whatever they wish, all bets are off. But when a product is just announced, when samples are scarce, and when a company wants to put its best foot forward, they invite people who they think will provide them with knowledgeable and hopefully favourable coverage. They base this judgment on that person's reputation, reach, and also how they have reported on the company in the past. No one but a fool would invite a writer who had a past negative bias to a private launch event for a new product.

Obviously I was one of the writers invited to Germany for an S2 and M9 show-and-tell for several reasons. I have been an M Leica shooter both professionally and personally for more than 40 years. Secondly, I extensively use and write about medium format digital, and this forum is well known as probably the most active place on the net for pros and other MF users to chat and hang out.

On the other hand Leica knows that I am close to Phase One, that their US VP marketing is a close friend and shooting companion, and that I own a P65+ and an extensive Phase One camera system. Leica also know that I was mightily pissed of with them when after I told them of early problems with the M8, and was assured that these would be addressed immediately, they never got back to me, and I subsequently was somewhat blindsided about the camera's problems and have taken a major reputation hit as a consequence.

But, we're all big boys, and I've been doing this long enough that they know that professionals in this industry don't harbour grudges. If we did, nothing would get done.

So Leica invited me to Germany, knowing that I had extensive experience with both M Leicas and medium format digital. Could they count on favourable reviews? Possibly. But only if the products delivered. I'd be writing my professional death sentence if I gave them a suck job and then the products didn't deliver in the end.

Now to the question of who pays for what. It is common practice in this industry, and indeed in almost all industries, for companies doing the inviting to a product launch event in another country to pay basic travel expenses. Otherwise most journalists couldn't come. It's true that this can be seen by some as "buying a favourable review", but this is hardly the case. A $600 plane ticket (yes, steerage class) won't buy too many people's souls, just as a nice meal or drinks won't. Indeed many dinners cost a hell of a lot more than that when companies do entertaining, and yet I've never seen anyone turn down the filet mignon as being too close to bribery for comfort.

Now, if someone offered me an M9 or an S2 – well......

Just kidding, of course. I NEVER EVER, have accepted any product (other than software) as a freebe. It would be the end of my carear if I did, and I don't know of any responsible journalist who would. (I also simply don't need the money, as anyone who knows me will attest). With software it makes no sense to return a review sample, and with printers companies usually don't want them back after long term reviews because of the shipping costs. In that case I give them a local photographic school as a donation.

So there you have it. Some folks will still think that reviewers (maybe me) are so badly off and lacking in judgement as to accept graft from companies whose products they review. Some will think that a hotel room at a press reception constitutes bribery and should be shunned.

Most mature people will understand that no ones professional reputation can be bought for an economy plane ticket or a hotel room, or a meal, or a drink, and certainly not mine.

Michael

[vandevanterSH]

Did you see that Sean Reid is suing Johnston over this?

NO..do you have a link or brief description of who, what, why??

Steve

[vandevanterSH]

Most mature people will understand that no ones professional reputation can be bought for an economy plane ticket or a hotel room, or a meal, or a drink, and certainly not mine.
**********
Excellent response, I guess the broader question is,  should a "disclosure" accompany a review.  The area that I am most familiar with, Medical literature, now often requires that authors of publications disclose commercial relationships, which many/most do have.

Steve

[michael]

Probably a good idea. I've never bothered to in the past, because it's never been brought up as an issue, but have no problem in doing so in future.

Michael

[dralph]

Did you see that Sean Reid is suing Johnston over this?

Thanks for the tip.  Indeed, Mike Johnston's site says Reid will be suing him.  Further, Reid's threat has caused TOP to remove all of the discussion from the TOP site.  How sad this is.  It sounds so small.  Mr. Johnston's reaction to Mr. Reid has been to censor comments on one of the best photography sites on the web, a loss to us all.

I read Mike and Micheal's sites almost daily, and they both have caused me to spend money on cameras, lenses, accessory equipment, books, and teaching materials.  They have both caused me to avoid purchases too.  I respect and appreciate their opinions, and I also appreciate the different voices they both bring to their sites.  Voices they themselves do not always agree with.

Both Mike and Michael have sung the praises of Sean Reid's subscription reviews.  I have been tempted to subscribe.  I do subscribe to Thom Hogan's comprehensive guides for some of my Nikon equipment.  Mike Johnston has frequently referred to Sean Reid's views as valuable, reliable and comprehensive; and Mr. Reid has even placed his own comments on Mr. Johnston's site.  All of that was good reason for someone to look up Mr. Reid and possibly purchase a subscription.

In the broader world of published reviews of any kind of thing or service that someone might purchase, or not, there is one gold standard out there:  Consumer Reports, the publication of Consumer's Union.  That impartial, non-profit organization makes it a point to never test anything given to them.  They always buy the product anonymously out of their own funds.  There is never any question of any kind of influence or pressure from the manufacturer or sellers of tested products.

There are other sources out there that we all read and value too.  Car and Driver magazine, for instance, which tests cars that are lent to it.  Do they have a reputation for honesty?  Well, pretty much, though some would raise the objection that the vehicles, and advertizements, might influence the articles.  I still read them, and take everything into account.  But, there is never any such possible doubt or consideration with Consumers Reports.

The Leicas were borrowed, which was noted by anyone who read the articles.  It was interesting infomation.  The cameras were not production models, not possible at the time of the reviews.

So, Mr. Reid has accomplished one thing with me, besides the resultant censorship of a site I like, and a threat towards a person I have come to like.  While his reviews may well be the best thing out there, there is not a snowball's chance in Hades that I will ever spend a penny on him if he follows through on a threat to sue Mr. Johnston.

[mbkinsman]

Thanks for the tip.  Indeed, Mike Johnston's site says Reid will be suing him.  Further, Reid's threat has caused TOP to remove all of the discussion from the TOP site.  How sad this is.  It sounds so small.  Mr. Johnston's reaction to Mr. Reid has been to censor comments on one of the best photography sites on the web, a loss to us all.

I read Mike and Micheal's sites almost daily, and they both have caused me to spend money on cameras, lenses, accessory equipment, books, and teaching materials.  They have both caused me to avoid purchases too.  I respect and appreciate their opinions, and I also appreciate the different voices they both bring to their sites.  Voices they themselves do not always agree with.

Both Mike and Michael have sung the praises of Sean Reid's subscription reviews.  I have been tempted to subscribe.  I do subscribe to Thom Hogan's comprehensive guides for some of my Nikon equipment.  Mike Johnston has frequently referred to Sean Reid's views as valuable, reliable and comprehensive; and Mr. Reid has even placed his own comments on Mr. Johnston's site.  All of that was good reason for someone to look up Mr. Reid and possibly purchase a subscription.
..............

So, Mr. Reid has accomplished one thing with me, besides the resultant censorship of a site I like, and a threat towards a person I have come to like.  While his reviews may well be the best thing out there, there is not a snowball's chance in Hades that I will ever spend a penny on him if he follows through on a threat to sue Mr. Johnston.

I could not agree more with your statement. I have spent many an hour on both Luminous Landscape (LL) and TheOnlinePhotogragher, including reading those articles publish by Sean Reid on LL. I have spent a fair amount of money both on LL for Video Journals and Tutorials and on various camera gear due to the insightful articles published on both sites. Being what I consider to be, an average family man with the costs associated with raising a family, etc, it is difficult to afford all I would like and must select my options carefully. I trust Michael Reichmann's opinion and never question his bias - to me, he tells it like he sees it, even if at times, unfavorable. I have been planning my budget to join Mr Reid's site, based on the recommedations of LL and TOP - but with the threat of lawsuit by Mr Reid over other peoples comments, with no apparent dig aimed squarely at him by Mike at TOP, I can only conclude that he has completely mis-read MIke's comment directed at Leica. Unfortunately, I will NOT support a bruised ego with my very hard earned money. I hope Mr Reid can cool down and revisit this with a more objectve point of view, and reconsider the lawsuit. Mike Johnson has always supported Sean's site and Mike IS a nice guy, providing an outstanding website for all the rest of us passionate photograghers on a limited budget. Michael Reichmann has demonstarted the mature approach I have come to respect, I only hope Sean Reid can do the same. I know myself and quite a few others in my area will be watching his response very diligently.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... So, Mr. Reid has accomplished one thing with me, besides the resultant censorship of a site I like, and a threat towards a person I have come to like.  While his reviews may well be the best thing out there, there is not a snowball's chance in Hades that I will ever spend a penny on him if he follows through on a threat to sue Mr. Johnston.

+1 (actually, for me even the threat of suing is enough, regardless of whether he follows through or not)

[hurdlr55]

+1 (actually, for me even the threat of suing is enough, regardless of whether he follows through or not)

+1 more, and ditto on the comment.

[DarkPenguin]

NO..do you have a link or brief description of who, what, why??

Steve

It is in the update of his Blog Note post.

UPDATE: Michael has accepted my apology and the  two of us consider this matter between us closed. Sean Reid has stated  his intention to proceed with a lawsuit against The Online Photographer  (which means me, since TOP is not an LLC), so I will not be  communicating with him except through our respective attorneys. (That's  rhetorical, for the time being, since I don't actually have an  attorney.)

I have no fight whatsoever with Michael,  and no fight with Sean's reviewing. There is no reason not to read  their reviews on my account. I read them myself, all the time, and have  done so for years. Please don't cast me as their antagonist, or rather  an antagonist of their work, because I'm not.

I've  decided to close the comments to this post and remove the comments that  have already been made, although I have read them all. This post was  just supposed to be an apology, not a kickoff point for debate. I'll  write an article in the future about the ethics of product reviewing, a  subject I know intimately from several different perspectives after 22  years in this business (I know a lot of juicy stories, believe me), and  we can discuss the issues to our hearts' content at that time—separated  from the present situation.

[dfarkas]

I believe Michael has always made it clear that he doesn't accept 'freebies' from companies.  If that's not enough, from David Farkas' blog:

"Then, I was offered the chance to actually shoot an S2.

How could I refuse such a unique opportunity? I cashed in the frequent flyer miles, cleared my schedule, and prepared for some serious fun. "

It might be a valid concern with some (hypothetical) reviewer, but I trust Michael's integrity.

Mike.

Speaking for myself, I did cover my own airfare (as noted in my blog, I used miles) and my own hotel (but I did get the favorable Leica rate at the hotel). Most of the meals and many of the drinks were covered by Leica, in the spirit of being good hosts. None of our meals were extravegant, but the food and conversations were delightful. The German beer is also highly recommended.  

David

PS - Michael, did you ever pass verdict on the best Wiener Schnitzel in Wetzlar?

[michael]

PS - Michael, did you ever pass verdict on the best Wiener Schnitzel in Wetzlar?

I'm still mulling it over, (burp).

Michael

[ErikKaffehr]

Michael,

For Wiener schnitzel you should go to Austria, anyway ;-)

Best regards
Erik

I'm still mulling it over, (burp).

Michael

[Eric Myrvaagnes]

I'm still mulling it over, (burp).

Michael

I look forward to the Wiener schnitzel Review when it is posted. I trust there will be a forthcoming video from you and Jeff as well on this subject.

Eric

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... It is common practice in this industry, and indeed in almost all industries, for companies doing the inviting to a product launch event in another country to pay basic travel expenses. Otherwise most journalists couldn't come. It's true that this can be seen by some as "buying a favourable review", but this is hardly the case. A $600 plane ticket (yes, steerage class) won't buy too many people's souls, just as a nice meal or drinks won't. ...

It is common practice indeed... and quite a slippery slope. The real question is where does one draw the proverbial line in the sand? In other words, if a plane ticket is not enough to "buy too many people's souls", what is?... a massage?... or a round of golf?

A disclaimer here... I am not posting the following excerpt to argue with MR, or prove him wrong. I DO believe MR would not "sell his soul" even for an S2.   I do, however, find the excerpt quite interesting and thought-provoking on a broader level:

By Devlin Barrett, Associated Press Writer On Wednesday September 2, 2009, 12:18 pm EDT

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Pfizer Inc., the world's largest drug maker, will pay a record $2.3 billion civil and criminal penalty over unlawful prescription drug promotions... it included the largest criminal fine in U.S. history -- $1.2 billion... To promote the drugs, authorities said Pfizer invited doctors to consultant meetings at resort locations, paying their expenses and providing perks. "They were entertained with golf, massages, and other activities,..."

[michael]

"They were entertained with golf, massages, and other activities,..."[/b]

I don't play golf, the only person who regularly gives me a message is my wife, and as for "other activities", well......

Michael