Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: « 1 [2] 3 4 ... 8 »   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50  (Read 33047 times)
schaubild
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 141


« Reply #20 on: September 26, 2009, 12:27:30 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: Boris_Epix
......
Why doesn't the press release talk about live-view? Because it will not be available or because they don't want to get H3DII-50 owners mad?

......


That was exactly the subject I was missing too. Makes now more than 10 months without a feature that was promised (and paid for) from day one. Hassleblad = lots of marketing promises. Seeing is believing.

 


Logged
TechTalk
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 295


« Reply #21 on: September 26, 2009, 12:34:40 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: Boris_Epix
It feels like Hasselblad will look at the market, check-out what everybody else does and then do the opposite followed by trash-talking competition and perfectly working technology.
I accept you as an expert in "trash-talk".

Try adding some fiber to your diet. Really. It might help you see things in a whole new light!
Logged
erick.boileau
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 469


WWW
« Reply #22 on: September 26, 2009, 12:45:12 AM »
ReplyReply

...
« Last Edit: September 28, 2009, 08:39:33 AM by erick.boileau » Logged
Graham Mitchell
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2282



WWW
« Reply #23 on: September 26, 2009, 06:17:00 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: photo570
You have got to be kidding, this sounds like the most complicated way possible to solve the problem photographers have been bitching about since day one, single point AF!!

It also doesn't help at all if the camera is on a tripod.
Logged

Graham Mitchell - www.graham-mitchell.com
gdwhalen
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 162


WWW
« Reply #24 on: September 26, 2009, 06:58:30 AM »
ReplyReply

I don't know what all the uproar is about.  It is not like anyone in here is forced to buy the H4.  Changing the name is pure marketing but that's what companies do.  Car companies.  Electronic companies.  Software companies.  Is it misleading? No, as long as they are upgrading and improving "something".  Obviously the new Phocus software will be available to everyone so that really is a different issue.  But the 4 is not required.  If you are getting great images with the 1,2 or 3 don't do it.  It's not a technology race from our perspective unless you just want to have a bigger/faster machine than anyone else.  The more interesting debate will be how they treat recent 50 buyers and how far back they go, on a purchase timeline, for their upgrade "path".   The mistake companies are making these days is forgetting that their customers decide their future and that their actions towards their customers are not forgotten and easily discussed by hundreds on the internet.  So, treat a customer bad these days and the negative affect will be in the thousands of future customers not just a few neighbors.
Logged

David Grover / Phase One
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 951



WWW
« Reply #25 on: September 26, 2009, 07:07:17 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: dougpetersonci
All of which are currently in Capture One 4.8.3 Pro (released and proven rock solid) and able to be used with Phase One, Canon, and Nikon cameras, and at-some-point Leaf.

Sorry David, couldn't resist the "my ____ is bigger than yours" game. To be fair, the H4D looks exciting. If/when it ships I look forward to seeing what you guys are doing with yaw-detection focus-adjustment. My gut feeling is I'd rather control the focus myself than let the camera adjust it for me, but I'm definitely ready to be convinced otherwise.

Doug, please. Posting six lines of some new Phocus features does not come under the banner of willy waving?

Also, yes Capture One is a proven platform - no doubt about that.  If you want to get into a conversation about 'Rock Solid' performance, let me know.

;-)

Logged

David Grover
Business Support and Development Manager, Software.
David Grover / Phase One
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 951



WWW
« Reply #26 on: September 26, 2009, 07:12:19 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: paul_jones
hi david, so does the focus off center, then recompose actually makes up for the differences in the focus plane? how does it do that?

still, when shooting on tripod, doing a difficult composite for example, you really cant be turning the camera every few shots. even thought the canons multipoint focus points don't quite go wide enough for all shots, most of the time there is a focus point exactly where you need it. so you lock down, and shoot all day in one direction. and even if you have a subject away from a focus point, its really extremely quick to click into live view at 10x and check that way, then take a shot - almost instantly from live view.

i dont have a hassy back, just a aptus on a h1, and i really love my camera. but to be honest, the last dozen shoots ive really wanted to use medium format, but on the day its just been too tough, and ive just finished the shoot with the canon.
its been like ive needed to take my hassy kit to shoots so the clients take me seriously, but when i shoot some shots with the canon and they see that file popping up on a 30" screen, they are completely happy with the canon. if they need larger file sizes, a can shoot a top plate, left and right in less time than my aptus can take a single shot, then i have a monster file, far in excess of 60mp.
im not trying to hassy bash, i just really want some big improvements so i get excited about having medium format again. more megapixels and a slight af adjustment isn't really cutting it.
if its really that hard to add more higher tech, usefull improvements to the H, at least add a vertical grip and a better color scheme (ie, black).

paul

Hi Paul,

In answer to your first question, the camera is fitted with hardware that is becoming more common now in products such as the iPhone, Wii, etc etc.

Therefore calculating the angle the camera is positioned at in relation to its focus point is quite easy - just a bit of Trigonometry.

I agree we need to get people excited about MF again.  But this is a step in the right direction.

The 'black' color argument is one that crops up from time to time.  Absolutely.  Well, all I can say is that we do listen to the users, so keep the voices high and lets see what happens.

David

Logged

David Grover
Business Support and Development Manager, Software.
David Grover / Phase One
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 951



WWW
« Reply #27 on: September 26, 2009, 07:14:39 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: gwhitf
David Grover's always here to pump the new announcements, but I wonder if you'll get a professional answer to this question above?

Let's watch and see...

George/Gerald/Mark,

With respect - posting my few lines of information of Phocus 2.0 is hardly 'pumping the new announcements'.  Check and see I did not also start this thread.

Anyway, yes I have answered Paul, and be honest, I have rarely skirting around issues in our own online discussions.

D
Logged

David Grover
Business Support and Development Manager, Software.
David Grover / Phase One
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 951



WWW
« Reply #28 on: September 26, 2009, 07:20:59 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: Boris_Epix
Poulsen is so full of (sh)it. That's probably why he's managing Hasselblad so wobbly. Give him a spine.

Instead of communicating a strategy/goal and sticking to it you get all those contradicting statements from Hasselblad.

One day they declare that Hassy is only announcing products that are ready to ship. Next you notice is how they pre-announce the H3DII-60 vaporware OVER A YEAR ahead of time.

Suddenly they declare the end of MFDB upgrade programs - because pricing is so much more affordable - and now we have again upgrade programs.

Pricing is more affordable? My ass. Over 40 k$ for the same ol' crappy unergonomic H1 design with more pixels and a bigger screen

One day the H3D 39 is full frame. Next day it's the first 48mm full frame dslr. Suddenly the PhaseOne P65+ sensor is not full frame and the H4D-60 will only have 94% full-frame 645 coverage Poulsen tells at Photokina.

Why doesn't the press release talk about live-view? Because it will not be available or because they don't want to get H3DII-50 owners mad?


Just for the record: Canon and Nikon Fullframe multipoint focus works GREAT. Hasselblad and Mamiya 645 are not even close. And this press release is proving that Hasselblad left photographers out in the dark knowing there's a real problem with off-center focusing since H1, H2, H3.

What's next? Is Hassy going to admit that one color profile can NOT reproduce good color in every imaginable lighting situation? I wonder how anybody could think that one canned profile could cover candle, sky, shadow, sunset, dawn, neon, tungsten, flash and most importantly MIXED light when the emitted light has different spikes in different ranges of wavelengths and the sensors spectral response is clearly and measurably reacting different to different light sources. Why does everybody else care about calibration and profiling? Is everyone but Hassy nuts?

It feels like Hasselblad will look at the market, check-out what everybody else does and then do the opposite followed by trash-talking competition and perfectly working technology.


Boris, Please.

There were two choices in regard to multi point AF.  Nobody builds an AF sensor that covers the 645 format.  Nobody.  So, you can either make it yourself (currently not possible within our means) or you can say 'Sorry guys, you will have to stick with the one point'.

There was a third option which is what we have done.  I don't think anybody is saying that Nikon and Canon multi AF is no good, we are simply presenting an alternative as opposed to doing nothing at all.

No we will not admit that one color profile for all scenes does not work.  Why?  Because is works exactly as it should.  Don't take my word for it, ask a customer.  Also ask institutions like the Tate museum in the UK who use several Hasselblad systems and do not feel the need to custom color profiling.

http://www.hasselblad.com/user-showcase/the-tate-london.aspx

Best,


D
Logged

David Grover
Business Support and Development Manager, Software.
David Grover / Phase One
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 951



WWW
« Reply #29 on: September 26, 2009, 07:22:16 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: schaubild
That was exactly the subject I was missing too. Makes now more than 10 months without a feature that was promised (and paid for) from day one. Hassleblad = lots of marketing promises. Seeing is believing.

 

Hi Schaubild,

It was unfortunately missed out of the press release.  But Live View for the H3D50 is due for October 2009.

D
Logged

David Grover
Business Support and Development Manager, Software.
vjbelle
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 203


« Reply #30 on: September 26, 2009, 07:42:14 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: David Grover / Hasselblad
Hi Schaubild,

It was unfortunately missed out of the press release.  But Live View for the H3D50 is due for October 2009.

D
Does this mean then that all of the upcoming H4D cameras will have live view?
Logged
David Grover / Phase One
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 951



WWW
« Reply #31 on: September 26, 2009, 08:06:58 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: vjbelle
Does this mean then that all of the upcoming H4D cameras will have live view?

We do not plan to exclude Live Video from anything.
Logged

David Grover
Business Support and Development Manager, Software.
Voltman
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 62


« Reply #32 on: September 26, 2009, 08:19:27 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: David Grover / Hasselblad
Boris, Please.

..  Nobody builds an AF sensor that covers the 645 format.  Nobody.

Hmmmm .... what's the point .... only one company ships a digital back to cover that 645 frame (well at least 96% of it) and it ain't yours... But yep yer right there about AF. Nobody does AF for 645. And that's the whole point you've missed for several years and many to come from what I'm reading....

But how about simply a multi-point AF system that covered at most 66% of that 645 frame which Nikon and Canon currently (and have for years) done??? Oh no, let's go build a yaw sensor that makes the shooter point directly at the point of focus and then reframe the camera to the composition desired.  Wow I bet that really works in a live situation with even slightly moving subjects (I guess you've dismissed dynamic focus or any closest subject features).  Come on and get real dude.

On the other hand the YouTube video was cute even though I was afraid the pop-up flash might deploy itself amongst all those movements.  Is it true you've upgraded the flash to GN 13?  That should be worth a few extra thousand ....
Logged
Voltman
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 62


« Reply #33 on: September 26, 2009, 08:21:01 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: David Grover / Hasselblad
We do not plan to exclude Live Video from anything.
Than why cannot we read that on a Hasselblad website???
Logged
David Grover / Phase One
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 951



WWW
« Reply #34 on: September 26, 2009, 08:29:29 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: Voltman
Hmmmm .... what's the point .... only one company ships a digital back to cover that 645 frame (well at least 96% of it) and it ain't yours... But yep yer right there about AF. Nobody does AF for 645. And that's the whole point you've missed for several years and many to come from what I'm reading....

But how about simply a multi-point AF system that covered at most 66% of that 645 frame which Nikon and Canon currently (and have for years) done??? Oh no, let's go build a yaw sensor that makes the shooter point directly at the point of focus and then reframe the camera to the composition desired.  Wow I bet that really works in a live situation with even slightly moving subjects (I guess you've dismissed dynamic focus or any closest subject features).  Come on and get real dude.

On the other hand the YouTube video was cute even though I was afraid the pop-up flash might deploy itself amongst all those movements.  Is it true you've upgraded the flash to GN 13?  That should be worth a few extra thousand ....

Then you are fortunate to be blessed with the most powerful of voting options.  You simply don't buy it, and we think again, no?

Suffice to say that more than 50% of business so far this year has been to customers who had previously not bought any Medium Format digital gear.  So I take solace in that we are delivering something to those guys which offers something additional to 35mm.

Logged

David Grover
Business Support and Development Manager, Software.
paulmoorestudio
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 239


WWW
« Reply #35 on: September 26, 2009, 08:38:05 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: David Grover / Hasselblad
Then you are fortunate to be blessed with the most powerful of voting options.  You simply don't buy it, and we think again, no?

Suffice to say that more than 50% of business so far this year has been to customers who had previously not bought any Medium Format digital gear.  So I take solace in that we are delivering something to those guys which offers something additional to 35mm.

thanks for putting up the info david, I think it is amazing that you even bother with the crap some people spew.
Logged

Voltman
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 62


« Reply #36 on: September 26, 2009, 09:17:06 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: David Grover / Hasselblad
Then you are fortunate to be blessed with the most powerful of voting options.  You simply don't buy it, and we think again, no?

Exactly the thinking that's the death knell for Hasselblad these days....  and the other MFD folks if they can't pay attention - but at least they're trying....



Logged
James R Russell
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 984



WWW
« Reply #37 on: September 26, 2009, 10:39:49 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: David Grover / Hasselblad
Then you are fortunate to be blessed with the most powerful of voting options.  You simply don't buy it, and we think again, no?

Suffice to say that more than 50% of business so far this year has been to customers who had previously not bought any Medium Format digital gear.  So I take solace in that we are delivering something to those guys which offers something additional to 35mm.

I don't know why everyone gives Hasselblad so much grief.  Just like every business in the world today, they've had to modify their business model back and forth but right now the world keeps going back and forth, so it would be foolish not to adapt.

Medium format is always compared to 35mm and I 've done it also, but the thing is in the history of photography medium format has always been slower and more deliberate than 35mm, 35mm has always been faster and more adaptable.  There is nothing that's really changed in that regard.

I don't own a Hasselblad, but I do know they are the only larger than 35mm camera maker that has a complete lens line and I don't won't to debate this open closed thing because I think it's silly, because #1 85% of the worlds professional images shot larger than 35mm are shot with a Hasselblad camera so no other maker in practice is really locked out, #2, why would Hasselblad or any company or person give their newest and best to a competitor?

I think that corrective focus thing will be a benefit if ti works, I think Hasselblad's newest software looks good, though that's just an observation, not from someone that's tried either.

I did do some tests a few years ago with a blad a leaf and a phase and at that point I think the hasselblad had the best skin tones, though with flexcolor I thought the software was the least intuitive and also at that stage Hasselblad was slower than Phase with uppng their iso, but today I think it's about even.

At the time I sold the Aptus, went with the Phase and only because c-1 version 3 was the most stable and workable for what I do.  I still think v3 is great software, though the previews are somewhat challanged, but that's a whole nother' story.

Anyway, if I was buying new medum format today, I'd give the blad a hard look, just because they offer a complete camera system and lenses and Hasselblad seems to have a willingness to hold prices down.

A few years ago I wouldn't have made that statement, but today I think they've improved and honestly I love Hasselblad's marketing with the way they present themselves on their website, their photographer features and victor magazine.  I think that does a lot of good for our profession.

As far as black, I'd rather see a Batman type of Titanium black, like the way they usually photograph the camera.

Rich and exotic.

[attachment=16816:blad.jpg]

JR
« Last Edit: September 26, 2009, 10:51:45 AM by James R Russell » Logged

nikf
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 31


« Reply #38 on: September 26, 2009, 10:56:07 AM »
ReplyReply

I would simply like to know if the screen on the back and zooming got any improvements. These are some basic and practical things for shooters like me who most of the time
take pictures un-tethered. I have 100% zooming in on the user button but there is no way to move around with the cursor buttons to check other parts of the frame than in
the middle. That's annoying and I have all my Nikons setup this way: one button press -> 100% view - moving around with the cursor. Why this is not possible on my H3DII-31 is
beyond me. Of course I mentioned this to my Hasselblad representative.
The display on the back is really not up to the task. Even in dim light recently, when I was shooting in Iceland, I could not see really what was going on with sharpness and I relied
on my technique to get sharp shots. I would prefer a way to double check in the field without schlepping a laptop around. With my Nikon D3 or even the lowly D90 I can see everything
even in brighter daylight.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2009, 10:57:40 AM by nikf » Logged
smoody
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 23


« Reply #39 on: September 26, 2009, 11:21:06 AM »
ReplyReply

Exciting stuff and a creative solution given the current technology limitations. If it works, I'd much rather focus and recompose than dial-in a focus point that may or may not be placed exactly where I want to focus. I've wanted to upgrade beyond 35mm-sized sensors for a while but with all of the new products in the pipeline (S2, new Pentax 645 body for potentially under $10K USD, etc.), it has made the buy/no-buy/when-to-buy/what-to-buy decision difficult. But, in my humble opinion, this sort of innovation makes the decision much easier.

Thanks to the original member who started this thread.

Logged

.
.
. . . . photos
Pages: « 1 [2] 3 4 ... 8 »   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad