Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: « 1 [2] 3 4 5 »   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: Schneider is to provide lenses to Phaseone 645  (Read 24764 times)
jing q
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 594


WWW
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2009, 11:55:44 AM »
ReplyReply

Logged
Ben Rubinstein
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1733


« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2009, 01:39:47 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: John-S
I think this is interesting news. We're inching our way to something real someday. When these lenses are actually for sale is another thing.

But is Phase/Mamiya kidding here: "The Phase One 645DF camera body starts at $5990"

I beg your pardon, but what exactly is in this camera body, a small bar of GOLD. Someone would have to be on drugs to pay $6K for only a Mamiya body. A crack pipe smokin' dream on their part.

But now it's got focus beep!
Logged

free1000
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 400


WWW
« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2009, 01:51:59 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: John-S
I think this is interesting news. We're inching our way to something real someday. When these lenses are actually for sale is another thing.

But is Phase/Mamiya kidding here: "The Phase One 645DF camera body starts at $5990"

I beg your pardon, but what exactly is in this camera body, a small bar of GOLD. Someone would have to be on drugs to pay $6K for only a Mamiya body. A crack pipe smokin' dream on their part.

It does seem a lot. However, if this had AF that was closer to a DSLR in speed and leaf shutter lenses, then I think professionals at the upper levels would have no problem paying for it.  Why not when a 1DsIII or a top line Nikon DSLR costs that sort of money?  Admittedly those latter DSLR's have the sensor, but its not a wildly incorrect comparison.

As far as I can see, Mamiya was charging too little for some of its gear, and struggling. Some of the deals to buy market share were probably helping to kill off their innovation. I got my Mamiya virtually free in a bundle with the Leaf Aptus. I was glad for it, but I've no idea how much commercial sense it made.

Then there is that 80mm lens. Yes, thats a lot of money.  But its Schneider glass, with a Leaf Shutter. If it delivers, I think it will earn its money.
 
With business the way its been this year, I wont be running out to buy them straight away, but I would budget for them longer term. Especially if I can still use my AFD lenses and gradually upgrade to the newer ones.  

We need MF cameras to approach the DSLR's in terms of usability while offering the highest optical standards.

And its open, so I'd be able to buy one and continue using my Leaf back.  If Phamiya get this right there will be a clear choice between Hassy (closed) and Phamiya (open). The market will speak.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2009, 01:54:41 PM by free1000 » Logged

@foliobook
Foliobook professional photography folio for iPad
www.foliobook.mobi
BJL
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5120


« Reply #23 on: September 28, 2009, 01:53:23 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: John-S
But is Phase/Mamiya kidding here: "The Phase One 645DF camera body starts at $5990"
What do the 645 AF alternatives cost? In fact, just one current alternative, a Hasselblad H3D body with VF. Not sold alone AFAIK, but that combo. does seem to add about $7,000 to the back price.

Yes, MF body prices are scarily higher than in the film era: welcome to the dark side of economies of scale, when R&D costs have to be shared over about ten thousand customers while mainstream DSLR makers can share their costs between millions of customers, so that ten times the R&D expense costs one tenth as much per customer. "Faster, better, cheaper" as NASA used to say.

In fact, the recent debate about the new Hasselblad AF system shows that even full 35mm format DSLRs can suffer in this way compared to far higher volume mainstream formats like DX, EF-S and 4/3:
- Mainstream DLSR formats, along with the Canon 1D, get multi-point AF modules optimized for those formats.
- 35mm format DSLRs often have to use the above AF modules as hand-me-downs, putting up with too tightly clustered AF points.
- DMF has to make the best of a single AF point, because the far lower sales volume and lower revenues cannot support the cost of keeping up with the sophistication of the AF offered in even some $500 DSLR's (e.g the new Pentax K-x.)

Compared to this, complaining about the LCD's on DMF backs seems petty.
Logged
jing q
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 594


WWW
« Reply #24 on: September 28, 2009, 02:01:45 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: free1000
It does seem a lot. However, if this had AF that was closer to a DSLR in speed and leaf shutter lenses, then I think professionals at the upper levels would have no problem paying for it.  Why not when a 1DsIII or a top line Nikon DSLR costs that sort of money?  Admittedly those latter DSLR's have the sensor, but its not a wildly incorrect comparison.

As far as I can see, Mamiya was charging too little for some of its gear, and struggling. Some of the deals to buy market share were probably helping to kill off their innovation. I got my Mamiya virtually free in a bundle with the Leaf Aptus. I was glad for it, but I've no idea how much commercial sense it made.

Then there is that 80mm lens. Yes, thats a lot of money.  But its Schneider glass, with a Leaf Shutter. If it delivers, I think it will earn its money.
 
With business the way its been this year, I wont be running out to buy them straight away, but I would budget for them longer term. Especially if I can still use my AFD lenses and gradually upgrade to the newer ones.  

We need MF cameras to approach the DSLR's in terms of usability while offering the highest optical standards.

And its open, so I'd be able to buy one and continue using my Leaf back.  If Phamiya get this right there will be a clear choice between Hassy (closed) and Phamiya (open). The market will speak.


someone just posted a comparison of the old and new leaf shutter 80mm lens on the other forum.
doesn't look much different.
Actually I don't understand what's the deal about an "open" system? H2 cameras are being used with Phase One, just that future innovation is  focused on Hassy cameras.

Well you know there's no more need for an "open" platform because there are basically two manufacturers left in the market. Phase One and Hassy.
Logged
EricWHiss
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2370



WWW
« Reply #25 on: September 28, 2009, 02:19:40 PM »
ReplyReply

I'm both excited and troubled by this news.  Excited because  these lenses are bound to be fantastic if they are anything like what I've used with my Rollei.  But troubled because of the path that resulted in this union.  I like the phase backs and the schneider lenses... I'm just bummed that these two couldn't have been combined with a more advanced camera.  I may be wrong but my impression is that a 10 year old Rollei 6008 AF is still more advanced and better featured than the latest and greatest phamiya body.   I also had hopped to see the 6x6 format option...

Logged

Authorized Rolleiflex Dealer:
Find product information, download user manuals, or purchase online - Rolleiflex USA
narikin
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 854


« Reply #26 on: September 28, 2009, 02:20:31 PM »
ReplyReply

Doug, do you know if there is the facility to lock the mirror up and use the leaf shutter to make exposures repeatedly without mirror coming down?

obviously you get no TTL viewfinder, but with an external finder in the hotshoe, you would have a very (very) quiet, no mirror shake camera. With MF quality digibacks, this could be an interesting CF option.

hopefully this can at least be a CF option, as I cant see any mechanical reason why the mirror needs to go up and down before the next exposure.
Logged
Graham Mitchell
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2282



WWW
« Reply #27 on: September 28, 2009, 02:23:07 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: EricWHiss
I'm both excited and troubled by this news.  Excited because  these lenses are bound to be fantastic if they are anything like what I've used with my Rollei.  But troubled because of the path that resulted in this union.  I like the phase backs and the schneider lenses... I'm just bummed that these two couldn't have been combined with a more advanced camera.  I may be wrong but my impression is that a 10 year old Rollei 6008 AF is still more advanced and better featured than the latest and greatest phamiya body.   I also had hopped to see the 6x6 format option...

+1
Logged

Graham Mitchell - www.graham-mitchell.com
yaya
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1119



WWW
« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2009, 02:41:52 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: jing q
Well you know there's no more need for an "open" platform because there are basically two manufacturers left in the market. Phase One and Hassy.

"Open" can mean different things to different people. I for one think that if you can use your 5 yr old digital back (from any manufacturer) on the latest camera body and with new lenses, then it makes the new system more "open".

I might be wrong but I doubt the H4D will be sold as a separate body to be used with current and/ or older H'blad backs
« Last Edit: September 28, 2009, 02:42:34 PM by yaya » Logged

Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Mamiya Leaf |
e: ysh@leaf-photography.com | m: +44(0)77 8992 8199 | www.mamiyaleaf.com | yaya's blog
jing q
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 594


WWW
« Reply #29 on: September 28, 2009, 02:45:49 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: yaya
"Open" can mean different things to different people. I for one think that if you can use your 5 yr old digital back (from any manufacturer) on the latest camera body and with new lenses, then it makes the new system more "open".

I might be wrong but I doubt the H4D will be sold as a separate body to be used with current and/ or older H'blad backs

considering that it costs about $2000 to adapt the 5 year old digital back to fit the new camera mount?

oh wait, does Leaf still offer that service? I forgot, it folded and I'm not even sure if the backs we bought from Leaf back then are still supported now.

Logged
yaya
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1119



WWW
« Reply #30 on: September 28, 2009, 02:51:24 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: jing q
considering that it costs about $2000 to adapt the 5 year old digital back to fit the new camera mount?

oh wait, does Leaf still offer that service? I forgot, it folded and I'm not even sure if the backs we bought from Leaf back then are still supported now.

The camera mount is the same as the one on the AFD/II/III so there is no mount change involved but if someone needs a mount change then yes Leaf does offer that service.
Logged

Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Mamiya Leaf |
e: ysh@leaf-photography.com | m: +44(0)77 8992 8199 | www.mamiyaleaf.com | yaya's blog
Graham Mitchell
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2282



WWW
« Reply #31 on: September 28, 2009, 02:53:50 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: John-S
Why can't the actual companies of Phase and Mamiya state that clearly from the start. The practical and important information shouldn't be omitted intentionally.

Agreed, but Phase has a history of dishonest marketing. I don't know why they feel they have to do it - the products are good.
Logged

Graham Mitchell - www.graham-mitchell.com
pschefz
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 244


« Reply #32 on: September 28, 2009, 02:54:51 PM »
ReplyReply

here comes some actual interesting news: schneider lenses! YES! with a leaf 1/1600 shutter! now that is what i call fun! prices are not bad for what we are looking at...the question is: will they work with ANY 645afd? or just the latest one...i never had any problems with shutterlag with 645 II or III to be honest....AF yes, 1/125 YES, but shutterlag not really....anyway if they do work, the camera is a great system open to a TON of cheap (and very, very good) lenses and cheap and very, very good bodies....i don't understand this whole mamiya crap talk, i have never had any problems with 645 or rz's, and actually never heard of known problems with either system.....unlike hasselblad and rollei (and i really loved the 6008)....

i think this is the most exciting news in MF in the last year....

i will wait how the H4D really performs to make a decision....focus pocus magic...

but also: the S2 is looking pretty good as well compared with all these....if i was buying a system today, the S2 might just be the least expensive one....and really the only drawback now seems to be the 1/500 sync.....i really don't care about 40, 50 or 60mpix....i don't think there is much difference....
Logged

schefz.com
artloch.com
tashley
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 55


« Reply #33 on: September 28, 2009, 04:10:12 PM »
ReplyReply

I've had both the lens and body since lunchtime and have posted some samples and general observations over at GetDPI:

http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.p...ed=1#post139341

I would post it all again here but is seems daft to replicate.

Best

Tim Ashley
« Last Edit: September 28, 2009, 04:20:50 PM by tashley » Logged
TMARK
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1834


« Reply #34 on: September 28, 2009, 04:59:50 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: EricWHiss
I'm both excited and troubled by this news.  Excited because  these lenses are bound to be fantastic if they are anything like what I've used with my Rollei.  But troubled because of the path that resulted in this union.  I like the phase backs and the schneider lenses... I'm just bummed that these two couldn't have been combined with a more advanced camera.  I may be wrong but my impression is that a 10 year old Rollei 6008 AF is still more advanced and better featured than the latest and greatest phamiya body.   I also had hopped to see the 6x6 format option...

The new body seems to be an all new animal that very well may be more full featured/advanced etc than your 6008.  We'll have to wait to see, won't we?
Logged
mcfoto
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 938


WWW
« Reply #35 on: September 28, 2009, 05:02:45 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: TMARK
They listened.  Has anyone seen, or more importantl used the camera?  If they managed to rid the camera of shutter lag, the AF is improved, this could be the real deal.

Hi
We used the Mamiya DF in June this year with a P65+ back. The body was not a full production model. We were doing a flash test between the Scoro & the Profoto Air. Yes the shutter lag was much improved to even the latest AFDIII body. BTW the file quality from the 65+ was the best I have ever seen from any MFD back. The new lenses at f 2.8 look good.
Cheers Denis

Logged

Denis Montalbetti
Montalbetti+Campbell
www.montalbetticampbell.com
DesW
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 174


« Reply #36 on: September 28, 2009, 05:03:47 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: John-S
I think this is interesting news. We're inching our way to something real someday. When these lenses are actually for sale is another thing.

But is Phase/Mamiya kidding here: "The Phase One 645DF camera body starts at $5990"

I beg your pardon, but what exactly is in this camera body, a small bar of GOLD. Someone would have to be on drugs to pay $6K for only a Mamiya body. A crack pipe smokin' dream on their part.

Ha!--I totally agree--you can't polish a turd!

Des
Logged
TMARK
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1834


« Reply #37 on: September 28, 2009, 05:07:24 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: mcfoto
Hi
We used the Mamiya DF in June this year with a P65+ back. The body was not a full production model. We were doing a flash test between the Scoro & the Profoto Air. Yes the shutter lag was much improved to even the latest AFDIII body. BTW the file quality from the 65+ was the best I have ever seen from any MFD back. The new lenses at f 2.8 look good.
Cheers Denis

Good to hear.  More importantly, Pro 8 or Scoro?

T
Logged
mcfoto
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 938


WWW
« Reply #38 on: September 28, 2009, 05:27:49 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: TMARK
Good to hear.  More importantly, Pro 8 or Scoro?

T

In our conclusion they were about the same. Maybe the Scoro had a slight edge but our back ground heads with the Profoto 8 were old heads & I was told that could make a difference. To me the big difference was light quality & I will be renting the Profoto 8 Air from now on especially if you are shooting people. They are both high end packs & our choice will be Profoto from now on.
Cheers Denis
Logged

Denis Montalbetti
Montalbetti+Campbell
www.montalbetticampbell.com
PeterA
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 123


« Reply #39 on: September 28, 2009, 06:38:12 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: DesW
Ha!--I totally agree--you can't polish a turd!

Des


Indeed you cant polish one of those - buy hey! you can cover it with 'glitter' -
Logged
Pages: « 1 [2] 3 4 5 »   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad