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Author Topic: Schneider is to provide lenses to Phaseone 645  (Read 23859 times)
bcooter
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« Reply #40 on: September 28, 2009, 06:52:24 PM »
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Quote from: mcfoto
BTW the file quality from the 65+ was the best I have ever seen from any MFD back.

Denis,

Take this in a positive way, but this is the $64,000 question, or should I say the $52,000 question;

Are you going to purchase a P65+, new Phase Body and three new lenses?

I ask this because these forums always light up with the _______ is the best in the world, or the best skin tones, or the whatever, but 95% of those people posting are using 22mpx backs hooked to older used cameras and many of those people are shooting their real pressured projects with a 5d2 or a D3x or some kind of dslr.  

Want, need and buy seem to be in three seperate catagories.

Had the same people that raved about the HY6 went out that day and bought one, they would probably still be in business.

You and your partner do a lot of work in post, in fact I think that is part of your style, so at the end of the day, shooting a 22, 31, 39, or 60mpx back do you really see any difference after you've gone through 12 stages of post work and client corrections and if you do, are you going to write that $52,000 check?

Thx.

BC
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« Reply #41 on: September 28, 2009, 07:16:00 PM »
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Quote from: TMARK
Good to hear.  More importantly, Pro 8 or Scoro?

T


PDN comparison of Scoro and Pro 8:

http://tinyurl.com/y89cal3


In our Capture Integration Atlanta office just last week we did a speed comparison between the Scoro 3200ws and the ProFoto 8 2400ws packs. We found they were very similar at most settings until we got to the lower settings and it seemed that with regard to short flash durations the Scoro had an extra gear the Pro 8 did not (or at least we didn't see any control that indicated that nor did the manual describe any). Aside from that, we see the Pro 8 with 2 lamp outlets and simple, direct controls as an easy, no fuss performer. The Scoro has 3 outlets, and an LED menu that provides a host of control and specialized features, like recallable flash sequences, pre-set intervals, etc. It's a different approach than the Pro 8, but we did not find anything unintuitive about it.

Sorry for the mini review, but it was fresh in our minds.


Steve Hendrix
« Last Edit: September 28, 2009, 07:19:30 PM by Steve Hendrix » Logged

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« Reply #42 on: September 28, 2009, 07:21:51 PM »
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Quote from: TMARK
The new body seems to be an all new animal that very well may be more full featured/advanced etc than your 6008.  We'll have to wait to see, won't we?


Yes and certainly I hope its a great camera.

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« Reply #43 on: September 28, 2009, 08:47:22 PM »
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Quote from: xinchenc
Your mini review shows the powerpark recharging duration, in which case Scoro seems faster.

BUT Flash duration is flash duration. I would like to know what kind of device you used to meter that duration.


Xin


This was a very crude and (unfortunately) brief test. We used a fan as the subject and photographed it straight on with each pack. The results were based on the amount of blur (or lack of it) we were seeing with the blades. Very unscientific. With the Pro 8and the Scoro set to a power setting of (2.0) the results seemed similar, but at the same setting the Scoro allows you to reduce the flash duration 1/2000th of a second further and the results we saw their predictably showed the Scoro freezing the blade more effectively. As I said, up until that setting the results seemed roughly equivalent. I suppose since the packs are powering down from different starting positions (Scoro is 3200ws vs Pro 8 at 2400ws), the Scoro showed slightly better stopping power at the same reduction, but at a higher power setting.


Steve Hendrix
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« Reply #44 on: September 28, 2009, 10:06:43 PM »
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Regarding bcooters post about my friends Dennis and Gay,they are smart,they get the client to pay for the MFDB rental.
That's the beauty,if you shoot advertising or high-end fashion.You don't need to own any expensive gear.
Just a 5DmkII,D3x or a 1DsMk3 will cover the lower end.
Probably most high end too!

If I ever need big files again,I'll just go out and rent a P65+ for the day.

Unless you use it everyday and you can't charge the client,why bother owning a P65+?

Also with the new Sony CCD 35mp sensor in the pipeline(hopefully going into the new Nikon) ,that would be more than enough for 99.9% of my work.
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« Reply #45 on: September 28, 2009, 10:38:33 PM »
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Quote from: bcooter
Denis,

Take this in a positive way, but this is the $64,000 question, or should I say the $52,000 question;

Are you going to purchase a P65+, new Phase Body and three new lenses?

I ask this because these forums always light up with the _______ is the best in the world, or the best skin tones, or the whatever, but 95% of those people posting are using 22mpx backs hooked to older used cameras and many of those people are shooting their real pressured projects with a 5d2 or a D3x or some kind of dslr.  

Want, need and buy seem to be in three seperate catagories.

Had the same people that raved about the HY6 went out that day and bought one, they would probably still be in business.

You and your partner do a lot of work in post, in fact I think that is part of your style, so at the end of the day, shooting a 22, 31, 39, or 60mpx back do you really see any difference after you've gone through 12 stages of post work and client corrections and if you do, are you going to write that $52,000 check?

Thx.

BC
At this point in time no, however it would be nice. Renting MFD makes more sense at the moment. Due to time we shoot almost all our jobs on the Canon 1DsMKIII with the 5DMKII as backup. Post has always been a big part of what we do even when we were in the darkroom. Also I find the art directors are coming up with more complicated layouts because of photo shop & digital cameras. At least that is the way down here in Australia. We want to be shooting with the latest and the greatest so we don't buy - we rent. Also I think MFD has to do HDV.
Denis
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« Reply #46 on: September 28, 2009, 10:52:01 PM »
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Isn't the above what I said in my post above the above?
Cheers,
Willem.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2009, 10:53:18 PM by rethmeier » Logged

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« Reply #47 on: September 29, 2009, 12:11:39 AM »
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Quote from: rethmeier
Isn't the above what I said in my post above the above?
Cheers,
Willem.

Hi Yeah I know. How are you enjoying the Nikon.
Denis
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bcooter
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« Reply #48 on: September 29, 2009, 12:21:44 AM »
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Quote from: mcfoto
At this point in time no, however it would be nice. Renting MFD makes more sense at the moment. Due to time we shoot almost all our jobs on the Canon 1DsMKIII with the 5DMKII as backup. Post has always been a big part of what we do even when we were in the darkroom. Also I find the art directors are coming up with more complicated layouts because of photo shop & digital cameras. At least that is the way down here in Australia. We want to be shooting with the latest and the greatest so we don't buy - we rent. Also I think MFD has to do HDV.
Denis

Denis,

I understand your point and I'm not saying a new mfdb doesn't have a place, I just wonder how many people are going to actually buy a new back, new lenses and a new body all in one swoop compared to doing what you do, which is renting as required.

Maybe a lot of people will buy and if so that's good for the companies, obviously shows a healthy trend in our industry.  

The rental thing seems to throw me as a business model though, because I don't know what's happening in your world, but in the States, I get a few e-mails a week from techs offering a RED, A 60mpx camera and back, a computer and their tech services for $1,100 per day.  Maybe those aren't real prices but I get enough of them that I have to feel that's where some of the rental market is going.

I find all of this in a state of change right now, because in the same e-mail que I have about 10 offers of RED seminars and 3 offers of new  5d2 video accessories.

I look at this thread and see it's kind of mixed with cameras and high speed lighting and it's interesting because today I pulled out a little Casio camera I bought for an inset shot for a video we just finished.

It's small, looks kind of like a dslr but in video mode it shoots up to 3,000 frames a second or something absurd.  I've only used it for this one gig, so know little about it but started playing with it and noticed it had a function to shoot still images at  60 fps with the onboard flash (or without) in still mode.

60 fps with flash.  Really blew me away.

Now I know this is a toy, I think it cost $800, when compared to a new medium format back, but imagine if somebody made a true professional camera with these functions, 60 fps in still mode, 3,000 fps in video, wow, then I guess I would be answering the $64,000 question with a purchase.

Once again, this may just be a reflection of my market, but I know today, most of the people that work in still photography services, retouchers, stylists, crew are all having a challanged year.  On the other hand the film editorial company I work with that has over 15,000 sq. ft. and 14 editing bays has been booked steady all year and today is booked solid for the next few months.

BC
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« Reply #49 on: September 29, 2009, 01:22:42 AM »
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Quote from: bcooter
Denis,

I understand your point and I'm not saying a new mfdb doesn't have a place, I just wonder how many people are going to actually buy a new back, new lenses and a new body all in one swoop compared to doing what you do, which is renting as required.

Maybe a lot of people will buy and if so that's good for the companies, obviously shows a healthy trend in our industry.  

The rental thing seems to throw me as a business model though, because I don't know what's happening in your world, but in the States, I get a few e-mails a week from techs offering a RED, A 60mpx camera and back, a computer and their tech services for $1,100 per day.  Maybe those aren't real prices but I get enough of them that I have to feel that's where some of the rental market is going.

I find all of this in a state of change right now, because in the same e-mail que I have about 10 offers of RED seminars and 3 offers of new  5d2 video accessories.

I look at this thread and see it's kind of mixed with cameras and high speed lighting and it's interesting because today I pulled out a little Casio camera I bought for an inset shot for a video we just finished.

It's small, looks kind of like a dslr but in video mode it shoots up to 3,000 frames a second or something absurd.  I've only used it for this one gig, so know little about it but started playing with it and noticed it had a function to shoot still images at  60 fps with the onboard flash (or without) in still mode.

60 fps with flash.  Really blew me away.

Now I know this is a toy, I think it cost $800, when compared to a new medium format back, but imagine if somebody made a true professional camera with these functions, 60 fps in still mode, 3,000 fps in video, wow, then I guess I would be answering the $64,000 question with a purchase.

Once again, this may just be a reflection of my market, but I know today, most of the people that work in still photography services, retouchers, stylists, crew are all having a challanged year.  On the other hand the film editorial company I work with that has over 15,000 sq. ft. and 14 editing bays has been booked steady all year and today is booked solid for the next few months.

BC
Hi
MFD is not doing well here at the moment as I know more photographers moving over to Canon & a few to Nikon. Phase does well with the backs & software. Hasselblad is no 1 for rental. In the AD world budgets are down woth clients asking more for less hence the migration to Canon, especially the 5DII. Went to a Canon talk at Panavision Australia on the 5DII this camera has been a huge hit. Seeing a $100.000 lens attached to a 5DII was amazing great pull focus! I could not believe the add ons they have come up with for this camera, shot gun microphones........... You can tell when a camera is a hit. The 30 fs is not the best, broadcast is 25 fs here & 24 fs in the US. The 7D has dealt with this. I don't even think Canon knew that the 5DII would be a hit in the film market. There was one director there who said he tried the 5DII & could not get it to work in his work flow but then again he was there.
Cheers Denis
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« Reply #50 on: September 29, 2009, 02:38:09 AM »
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Will the faster syncs and leaf shutters operate with the Current Phase Body or only with the new DF?
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« Reply #51 on: September 29, 2009, 03:38:11 AM »
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Did you try them at full power? I'm curious about the flash duration difference when you dial them up to 9(according to the techdata profoto is 1/1600s t05 and broncolor is 1/285s t01, incompareble)...

Quote from: Steve Hendrix
This was a very crude and (unfortunately) brief test. We used a fan as the subject and photographed it straight on with each pack. The results were based on the amount of blur (or lack of it) we were seeing with the blades. Very unscientific. With the Pro 8and the Scoro set to a power setting of (2.0) the results seemed similar, but at the same setting the Scoro allows you to reduce the flash duration 1/2000th of a second further and the results we saw their predictably showed the Scoro freezing the blade more effectively. As I said, up until that setting the results seemed roughly equivalent. I suppose since the packs are powering down from different starting positions (Scoro is 3200ws vs Pro 8 at 2400ws), the Scoro showed slightly better stopping power at the same reduction, but at a higher power setting.


Steve Hendrix
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« Reply #52 on: September 29, 2009, 08:17:17 AM »
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Quote from: dustblue
Did you try them at full power? I'm curious about the flash duration difference when you dial them up to 9(according to the techdata profoto is 1/1600s t05 and broncolor is 1/285s t01, incompareble)...


No, but we will have a more extensive test sometime in the next 30 days.


Steve Hendrix
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« Reply #53 on: September 29, 2009, 09:12:07 AM »
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Quote from: rethmeier
Also with the new Sony CCD 35mp sensor in the pipeline(hopefully going into the new Nikon)
I think that this 35MP sensor story is a fake. For one thing, the PDF describing it at
http://photorumors.com/2009/09/13/new-sony...ii-with-34-8mp/
is titled as being part of the "Featuring" section of CX-news
http://www.sony.net/Products/SC-HP/cx_news/index.html
a Sony web magazine, but when you go to the site collecting all those "Featuring" stories,
http://www.sony.net/Products/SC-HP/cx_news/featuring.html
this one is not there. What there is instead is a related story about the new Super HAD CCD II type of sensors in volume 52,
http://www.sony.net/Products/SC-HP/cx_news...featuring1.html
http://www.sony.net/Products/SC-HP/cx_news...featuring52.pdf
but that is about far smaller sensors for security cameras. The only place I have even seen Sony use "Super HAD CCD" is for security camera. The 35MP sensor PDF looks like a cut-up of that real article. One indication of it being a fake is the spelling error "industrie" and the terminal "y" missing from "Sensitiv" in the figure caption; another is some very ugly, amateurish line breaks, not seen in the real "Featuring" PDF's.

Also, Sony is using Exmor CMOS in all its high end DSLR sensors, not CCDs.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2009, 09:24:23 AM by BJL » Logged
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« Reply #54 on: September 29, 2009, 09:41:12 AM »
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Quote from: dustblue
Did you try them at full power? I'm curious about the flash duration difference when you dial them up to 9(according to the techdata profoto is 1/1600s t05 and broncolor is 1/285s t01, incompareble)...

I don't really know about numbers and even testing I find difficult unless I test in the exact same scene and conditions I plan to shoot.

For this ad series we brought talent in and went through a few of the scenarios and tried profoto bi-tubes split to different packs and
at the end of the day, went with acutes for fill and photogenic monoblocks for the keys and side lights, as it gave me just the right amount of freeze with certain blur on stuff that should blur.

[attachment=16862:sharp.jpg]

You can't really tell from these jpegs, but the eyes are pin sharp obviously the tennis racket has movement, though it should and there is some post work to this, though not as much as I thought
there would be.

I shot this with Contaxs and the P30+ and I think the sync was on 1/125th.

Everybody talks and seems to want the latest and greatest, but usually I find that I just use what works, what I have (I think we have about 25 of these old monoblocks) and what fits the budget.

BTW: These images were printed huge, like 2 story building huge.

But numbers, I don't know about numbers, just the image.

JR
« Last Edit: September 29, 2009, 09:42:57 AM by James R Russell » Logged

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« Reply #55 on: September 29, 2009, 10:25:15 AM »
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I agree that art is not about numbers most of the times. But for some kind of art number is the key.

Asume I want to do a splash shot of a athlete under direct sunlight and use flash to darken the sun, I want the splashes to be sharp, then the full power flash duration would be important. (or simply I neet more power to do a freeze shot, then the full power flash duration would be important too)

I did this with a kind of lamp which  worth less than $400, tack sharp splashes. I didn't rent any luxury equipments only because I know the numbers(guess what did I use?).


 

Quote from: James R Russell
I don't really know about numbers and even testing I find difficult unless I test in the exact same scene and conditions I plan to shoot.

But numbers, I don't know about numbers, just the image.

JR
« Last Edit: September 29, 2009, 03:34:54 PM by dustblue » Logged

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« Reply #56 on: September 29, 2009, 01:29:07 PM »
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Quote from: James R Russell
For this ad series we brought talent in and went through a few of the scenarios and tried profoto bi-tubes split to different packs and
at the end of the day, went with acutes for fill and photogenic monoblocks for the keys and side lights, as it gave me just the right amount of freeze with certain blur on stuff that should blur.

[attachment=16862:sharp.jpg]
JR
Hi...

Did you push the button at the right time with luck or skill, or did you use a beam-trigger?
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« Reply #57 on: October 01, 2009, 12:30:44 PM »
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from the phase one website: 'The 645DF camera is the only 645 medium format camera which supports both focal plane and leaf shutters, expanding photographers...’
does that mean we can't use the new lenses on the older models?? ( in my case a mamiya af III that is'nt even one year old. )
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« Reply #58 on: October 08, 2009, 02:43:40 PM »
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Quote
Mamiya wird die bereits vor ein paar Tagen als Phase One 645D angekündigte Mittelformatkamera ab Ende Oktober 2009 auch als Mamiya 645DF ausliefern, das Zentralverschlussobjektiv 2,8/80 mm soll Schneider-Kreuznach-zertifiziert ab Mitte November erhältlich sein
http://www.photoscala.de/Artikel/Mamiya-Mi...matkamera-645DF
robot translation:
Quote
Mamiya will deliver the as Phase One announced 645D medium format camera at the end of October 2009 as a Mamiya 645DF. The leaf shutter lens 2,8 / 80 mm, Schneider-Kreuznach certified, will be available about mid-November.
what is a "Schneider-Kreuznach certified lens"?
it might not be the same as a Schneider-Kreuznach lens...
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« Reply #59 on: October 08, 2009, 05:11:32 PM »
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Quote from: AlDoori
what is a "Schneider-Kreuznach certified lens"?
it might not be the same as a Schneider-Kreuznach lens...
designed by Schneider, assembled by Mamiya.
"certified" certainly includes quality control by Schneider as well... IMO

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