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Author Topic: Yet few Leaf Aptus 75 issues..  (Read 3045 times)
Mr. Rib
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« on: September 29, 2009, 06:25:04 PM »
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Unfortunately few more issues with leaf aptus 75 back.. sorry for bothering you with leaf aptus all the time but I had no experience with digital backs before (moved from Rollei 6008 AF and film scanning). Here are the questions:

1. I get hundreds of hot pixels (red, blue, violet ones) in long exposures (for instance 20 sec). They don't seem to be aligned in different photo samples, however if I examine the photo on my digital back, I can clearly see the dots. After processing with Leaf Capture they disappear, they are visible in the RAW preview though. What are these? Is it something to be expected from a digital back? I wonder..

2.  Leaf Aptus tends to hang from time to time. That's to be expected since it runs on Windows CE  But seriously- it tends to hang on one per 10-15 shots I take. Especially on shots taken with long exposures. The menu is not accessible (aptus doesnt respond to clicking 'up', I can only click "more" and can't access main menu at all). orange dial keeps blinking, I can only switch the back off, otherwise it simply keeps blinking and nothing happens. I have firmware version 4.311 interface version 1.31. Should it be updated? Can I update BOTH user interface and firmware via firewire cable? And can these things be happening due to low-end, old CF card?

3. Sometimes (when using dedicated scriber of course) when I'm in SHOOT mode, when I click on "up" the click is interpreted as a click in "zoom" option. Same goes for "more" option ( "next" option is chosen). Both of these are in lower corners of the screen, sometimes I have a hard time to hit the damn "UP" option to go back to the menu..

4. Is it just me my sample or is this design really that bad? Artifact hot pixels, system tends to hang, user interface is not working precisely.. I'm a bit disappointed after first tests of the back..

(edit: I've uploaded 100% crop with some of the 'hot pixel-like' stuff and info how was it shot)
« Last Edit: September 29, 2009, 06:30:59 PM by Mr. Rib » Logged
yaya
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« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2009, 06:44:53 PM »
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Quote from: Mr. Rib
Unfortunately few more issues with leaf aptus 75 back.. sorry for bothering you with leaf aptus all the time but I had no experience with digital backs before (moved from Rollei 6008 AF and film scanning). Here are the questions:

1. I get hundreds of hot pixels (red, blue, violet ones) in long exposures (for instance 20 sec). They don't seem to be aligned in different photo samples, however if I examine the photo on my digital back, I can clearly see the dots. After processing with Leaf Capture they disappear, they are visible in the RAW preview though. What are these? Is it something to be expected from a digital back? I wonder..

2.  Leaf Aptus tends to hang from time to time. That's to be expected since it runs on Windows CE  But seriously- it tends to hang on one per 10-15 shots I take. Especially on shots taken with long exposures. The menu is not accessible (aptus doesnt respond to clicking 'up', I can only click "more" and can't access main menu at all). orange dial keeps blinking, I can only switch the back off, otherwise it simply keeps blinking and nothing happens. I have firmware version 4.311 interface version 1.31. Should it be updated? Can I update BOTH user interface and firmware via firewire cable? And can these things be happening due to low-end, old CF card?

3. Sometimes (when using dedicated scriber of course) when I'm in SHOOT mode, when I click on "up" the click is interpreted as a click in "zoom" option. Same goes for "more" option ( "next" option is chosen). Both of these are in lower corners of the screen, sometimes I have a hard time to hit the damn "UP" option to go back to the menu..

4. Is it just me my sample or is this design really that bad? Artifact hot pixels, system tends to hang, user interface is not working precisely.. I'm a bit disappointed after first tests of the back..

(edit: I've uploaded 100% crop with some of the 'hot pixel-like' stuff and info how was it shot)

If you bought it from a reputable dealer then they should be able to offer you some (chargeable?) training so you'll have the basics on how to use the back and have answers to all your questions. See also my reply to your other thread.
In general hot pixels can be removed by checking the "Clean long exposures" in the Adjust>Filters tab. This only affects the processed image.
If you use LC 11.2.4 then it'll upload the most recent firmware for your back when you connect the FW cable. The EXIF data in your attachment suggests that the back is not new.
Once again your dealer should be able to provide all the relevant answers and deal with any issues for you. Same goes for the AFDII as it might not have the most recent firmware on it.

Hope this helps
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Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Mamiya Leaf |
e: ysh@leaf-photography.com | m: +44(0)77 8992 8199 | www.mamiyaleaf.com | yaya's blog
Mr. Rib
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« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2009, 07:14:59 PM »
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The back may be few years old, however there are only 5500 actuations recorded. I'll try to bring the firmware up to date, I'll be seeing someone from Mamiya tomorrow. As for my dealer from which I got the digital back- he tries to belittle the fact that the back is not well-mounted on my camera, even though he has seen with his own eyes that it can be displaced while being mounted (we tried it on 4 different mamiya bodies, with each there was a noticable looseness). You don't have to be a genius to know how much it affects the sharpness, causes color fringing etc. He doesn't really know a thing about digital backs, so there is no way he could help me with any of that. He's not an official distributor so I can't expect much of him..I hope I can have the back thoroughly tested by Leaf  customer service or have it replaced with a different sample.
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ThierryH
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« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2009, 12:54:17 AM »
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This is normal: those pixels are only visible in the preview, since they are not corrected by the soft.

Only the processed image is corrected.

Thierry

Quote from: Mr. Rib
1. I get hundreds of hot pixels (red, blue, violet ones) in long exposures (for instance 20 sec). They don't seem to be aligned in different photo samples, however if I examine the photo on my digital back, I can clearly see the dots. After processing with Leaf Capture they disappear, they are visible in the RAW preview though. What are these? Is it something to be expected from a digital back? I wonder..
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Mr. Rib
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« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2009, 01:35:28 AM »
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Quote from: John-S
I used an Aptus 22 for two years with no issues, at least nothing I couldn't figure out myself.

Leaf backs are not long exposure devices. I shot images up to 30 secs with OK results but a Canon 5DII does much better. But this is not anything new here, Aptus long exposure quality has been known for 5 years+. Leaf Capture cleans up the files fine, better than using anything Adobe.

Any frame longer than say a 1/4 (or close to it) does a dark frame immediately after each frame. This always the case. No getting around it. Probably what you think is the back hanging.

You can calibrate the accuracy of the stylus in the Aptus menu system. Should correct the issues in using the screen and stylus. I found it to be very accurate.

To be honest your disappointment is more user error or misunderstanding of how to use the back within its limitations. All MFDBs have limitations of varying degrees.

An A75 with produce stunning files. Don't expect mastering the tech overnight.


Calibrating the accuracy of the stylus doesn't help, but I can live with that. Thanks for the insight on long exposures, I didn't know that. I agree that the image quality is great, especially colors if exposed well. How do you deal with these dark frames after long exposures? If I tried to take two long exposures one after another the back stopped reacting, that's what I've been referring to as a system hang. I'll try making a long exposure and then making a short one, I'll see if it helps with this hanging. Thank you guys for your help.
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UlfKrentz
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« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2009, 02:23:07 AM »
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Quote from: Mr. Rib
Calibrating the accuracy of the stylus doesn't help, but I can live with that. Thanks for the insight on long exposures, I didn't know that. I agree that the image quality is great, especially colors if exposed well. How do you deal with these dark frames after long exposures? If I tried to take two long exposures one after another the back stopped reacting, that's what I've been referring to as a system hang. I'll try making a long exposure and then making a short one, I'll see if it helps with this hanging. Thank you guys for your help.

Hi,

Leaf aptus is sort of calibrating/initialising exposure and settings after the first shot. This will take at least the time the frame was exposed. You are not adviced to expose a second frame before this very first frame appears on the screen. Using the same exposure time after that you can shoot as soon as you hear that ready beep. Using a different time will restart that initialising process. Iīm not a long exposure expert with the aptus and I agree there will be better solutions for higher ISO setting and long exposures. Within a "normal" exposure time and 50 or 100ASA setting you will truly receive perfect images. We are using our backs with Macs, doing al lot of fashion work in the studio or on location and didīt experience any problems with these backs. (Tethered to MacPro or MacBookPro, mounted on H or on view camera doing still photography)

Cheers

Ulf
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Mr. Rib
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« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2009, 08:34:33 AM »
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Quote from: UlfKrentz
Hi,

Leaf aptus is sort of calibrating/initialising exposure and settings after the first shot. This will take at least the time the frame was exposed. You are not adviced to expose a second frame before this very first frame appears on the screen. Using the same exposure time after that you can shoot as soon as you hear that ready beep. Using a different time will restart that initialising process. Iīm not a long exposure expert with the aptus and I agree there will be better solutions for higher ISO setting and long exposures. Within a "normal" exposure time and 50 or 100ASA setting you will truly receive perfect images. We are using our backs with Macs, doing al lot of fashion work in the studio or on location and didīt experience any problems with these backs. (Tethered to MacPro or MacBookPro, mounted on H or on view camera doing still photography)

Cheers

Ulf


Hi Ulf,

Did you experience any system hangings after taking a shot? I get it quite often- after a shot the image is being processed and the back keeps processing it (the diode blinks in orange all the time). If I try to access menu, I'm in 'shoot' mode and I can only press 'more', nothing else. No other buttons in the menu work (like 'up' button which would let me go to the main screen). I think it hangs randomly, and I don't think it's the case of taking the shot before the sound signal (but I'll check it today to be 100% sure).

Regards,
Chris
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UlfKrentz
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« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2009, 03:00:37 PM »
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Quote from: Mr. Rib
Hi Ulf,

Did you experience any system hangings after taking a shot? I get it quite often- after a shot the image is being processed and the back keeps processing it (the diode blinks in orange all the time). If I try to access menu, I'm in 'shoot' mode and I can only press 'more', nothing else. No other buttons in the menu work (like 'up' button which would let me go to the main screen). I think it hangs randomly, and I don't think it's the case of taking the shot before the sound signal (but I'll check it today to be 100% sure).

Regards,
Chris


Hi Chris,

we donīt had problems with our backs but we shoot tethered for about 99% of our work. Aptus is a bit sensitive if you take a new frame before the first ready beep and produces an error or unusable image. Remember, if you change shutter speed, this initial process will start over and will take AT LEAST the exposure time. So if you have an exposure time of ten seconds donīt expect that ready beep and the corresponding frame before letīs say 15sec. Just be patient and wait that time. If your system is still misbehaving may be try to get a mac and have a software update to your back (starts automaticly when connecting) or see a leaf dealer and ask for support.

Our software is 4.700 and 1.8.4 (thatīs pretty far from what you posted)

We donīt have experience with the win software, but when we were searching for a smaller desktop computer for location work we asked our dealer how about a windows solution and were told not to even think about it. This was about a year ago. We are working with a MacBookPro now and this solution is very fast and stable.
Sorry to hear about your problems.

Cheers

Ulf
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