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Author Topic: Sony A900 -Just delivered!  (Read 10706 times)
Rob C
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« Reply #20 on: October 05, 2009, 07:12:55 AM »
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Quote from: Paul Kerfoot
Hi Patrick

Its the same old Sony proprietary mind set dating back to Betamax, its a marketing strategy designed to force you to buy only from them (at a much higher price) and thereby make your money their money.  The inkjet printer manufacturers are especially rapacious; they do it via very small chipped ink cartridges at an exorbitant cost per milliliter and waste much of that with cleaning cycles.   The latest wrinkle is to force customers to use only proprietary lithium batteries in their cameras.

Sorry to bum you out.

Paul




Paul, you have just underlined the marketing ethic by which, willy-nilly, we live and die.

There are those who believe - or at least say that they do - that business is more than the transfer of your funds from your bank into my bank, but the older I get the more convinced I am that to think other than as the cynic is to be wearing the rosy tinteds on a rainy day. Which, indirectly, makes me think of Bob Dylan and his wet women.

Rob C
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pegelli
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« Reply #21 on: October 05, 2009, 08:13:42 AM »
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Quote from: Paul Kerfoot
Its the same old Sony proprietary mind set dating back to Betamax, its a marketing strategy designed to force you to buy only from them (at a much higher price) and thereby make your money their money.

Just to get the facts straight, the proprietary flash shoe and very expensive adapters to use generic trigger/slave combinations was inherited from Minolta. Not that it makes any difference in te end result today and if Sony wished they could have changed it.
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pieter, aka pegelli
alain
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« Reply #22 on: October 05, 2009, 03:33:01 PM »
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Quote from: pegelli
Just to get the facts straight, the proprietary flash shoe and very expensive adapters to use generic trigger/slave combinations was inherited from Minolta. Not that it makes any difference in te end result today and if Sony wished they could have changed it.

I'm quite happy that Sony kept the "better" minolta flash shoe, it's far easier to handle a flash.  For remote triggers there are quite some adaptors and when looking around for a very cheap price.  I even find a remote trigger with adaptor easier, but that's because the better handling of the minolta flash shoe.  

BTW. I've seen one for 17 incl. shipping in europe.
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alain
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« Reply #23 on: October 06, 2009, 12:44:49 AM »
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Quote from: EPd
...
Why one would want a shoe adapter to get X-sync is beyond my comprehension: A900 and A850 both have an X-sync contact on the body. Can anyone explain why an adapter is preferable? I don't suppose those Pocket Wizards need TTL functionality to fire a set of studio strobes? (In the studio I use an IR flash to fire my monoblocks via the X-sync. The IR flash, with a standard shoe, sits on an old bracket screwed to the bottom of my A900.)

Having a radio trigger on the hotshoe is quite handy, but most of them can be connected by the X-sync contact.
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pegelli
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« Reply #24 on: October 06, 2009, 12:50:27 AM »
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Quote from: EPd
I second that! When in the heat of the work mounting a flash to the Minolta/Sony shoe can be done much quicker and more secure than with the old shoe.

Why one would want a shoe adapter to get X-sync is beyond my comprehension: A900 and A850 both have an X-sync contact on the body. Can anyone explain why an adapter is preferable? I don't suppose those Pocket Wizards need TTL functionality to fire a set of studio strobes? (In the studio I use an IR flash to fire my monoblocks via the X-sync. The IR flash, with a standard shoe, sits on an old bracket screwed to the bottom of my A900.)

I can see your first point, but probably subjective since people ususally like what they're used to. I don't mind the proprietary hot shoe other than that I also need an adapter to attach a spirit level.

Second point, I agree for the A900 and A850 (and even the A700) but the cheaper Sony models do not have an X-sync on the body so having it on the adapter is the only way to use X-sync with those bodies.
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pieter, aka pegelli
douglasf13
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« Reply #25 on: October 06, 2009, 04:44:50 AM »
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Pegelli, there are Sony mount spirit levels available:  http://cgi.ebay.com/Triple-3-Axis-Bubble-S...id=p3286.c0.m14

As far as pocket wizards are concerned, I prefer mounting to the hotshoe, rather than dealing with cables and xsync, but it's much ado over a $10 adapter.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2009, 04:47:57 AM by douglasf13 » Logged
pegelli
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« Reply #26 on: October 06, 2009, 04:54:51 AM »
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Quote from: douglasf13
Pegelli, there are Sony mount spirit levels available:  http://cgi.ebay.com/Triple-3-Axis-Bubble-S...id=p3286.c0.m14

Thanks for that link. I think I'll order one.
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pieter, aka pegelli
tkarlmann
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« Reply #27 on: October 06, 2009, 07:45:56 PM »
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Quote from: PLLove
Just received my Sony A900, 135 f1.8 CZ, and 85 f.14CZ.  Overall, the build quality of the lens are 2nd to none!!  I haven't seen craftsmanship in 35mm for a long long time!  The build quality is much better than the much more expensive Mamiya/Hasselblad gear that I have used.  Excellent job Sony!  I can't wait to try it out this weekend.  I have a gig on Sunday, so I plan to give it a run then.    

Ok, one question.  Why in the hell can't my pocketwizards work on this w/o a $100 adapter?  That's horrible Sony!    

Hence, my mixed feelings!    

I will purchase the $100 adapter today, and give it a run in the studio before my gigs on Sunday.  Hopefully, the image quality will quickly make me forget about throwing money down the drain on this adapter.

Pat

There is another solution!  I have used Minolta cameras and Pocket Wizards professionally for years.  

The way a did it was a little bit involved, but far less costly.  
 1) Go and look at cables -- cannot remember the brand, but I think it is Paramount.  They do custom cables
 2) Either purchase a dumb FS1100 or use velcro patches.  There is no need to use the hot shoe.
 3) Put you camera system together and figure out the shortest cable to get from where your pocket wizard is to where your PC sysnc socket is on the camera
 4) Try the 'system' out with a standard-length cable.  
 5) If it works for you, get several custom cables from Paramount.

I always disliked the non-standard hot shoe myself.  However my method of solving the problem has worked well for over 100 weddings.

Thom
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BrianSmith
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« Reply #28 on: October 08, 2009, 04:22:44 PM »
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Quote from: PLLove
Ok, one question.  Why in the hell can't my pocketwizards work on this w/o a $100 adapter?  That's horrible Sony!    

Pat

Pat,

Sony's proprietary hotshoe has to do with backwards compatibility for Minolta users. Kind of a no-win situation. Change it and they piss off existing users. Leave it as is and you need an adapter which pisses off everyone changing over from another brand.

I'm using Sony's adapters with my a900s, but if you're using Pocket Wizards the $10 ebay specials will work just as well. The Sony's adapter also regulate the sync voltage, which you only need if you're using another brand of on-camera flash.

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K.C.
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« Reply #29 on: October 08, 2009, 11:54:53 PM »
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Quote from: BrianSmith
Sony's proprietary hotshoe has to do with backwards compatibility for Minolta users. Kind of a no-win situation. Change it and they piss off existing users...

Backwards compatibility with what, a few outdated Minolta flash units ?


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pegelli
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« Reply #30 on: October 09, 2009, 12:34:32 AM »
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Quote from: K.C.
Backwards compatibility with what, a few outdated Minolta flash units ?

The Minolta 3600 HSD and 5600 HSD were identical (form and function) to to the Sony HVL 36AM and Sony HVL 56AM.
Only quite recently these have been replaced by the newer 42AM and 58AM.
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pieter, aka pegelli
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« Reply #31 on: October 09, 2009, 02:20:23 AM »
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Quote from: BrianSmith
Sony's proprietary hotshoe has to do with backwards compatibility for Minolta users. Kind of a no-win situation. Change it and they piss off existing users. Leave it as is and you need an adapter which pisses off everyone changing over from another brand.

Sony needs to improve its marketing. They should educate users of other brands about the superiority of the Minolta-type hot-shoe. They shouldn't consider going back to the archaic ISO-type shoe. It was a PITA to use.

Prog.
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K.C.
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« Reply #32 on: October 10, 2009, 12:18:02 AM »
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Quote from: pegelli
The Minolta 3600 HSD and 5600 HSD were identical (form and function) to to the Sony HVL 36AM and Sony HVL 56AM.
Only quite recently these have been replaced by the newer 42AM and 58AM.

So 4 flashes that are no longer in production will be made obsolete. Seems like a reasonable cost of progress. That is, assuming that changing to the ISO standard would be progress
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pegelli
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« Reply #33 on: October 10, 2009, 01:42:07 AM »
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Quote from: K.C.
So 4 flashes that are no longer in production will be made obsolete. Seems like a reasonable cost of progress. That is, assuming that changing to the ISO standard would be progress

Today yes, but then it would also make the 42 and 58 obsolete that have been released in the previous year

When the first Sony came out (A100) it would have made all 4 "current models" obsolete (KM's were still widely available).

And btw, a lot of older flashes also fit, they will only be missing the automatic TTL function and can only be used at ratio power steps.

I'm not putting any value judgement on whether the KM/Sony is better or worse than ISO shoes, I think they both have their merits and drawbacks.
I'm just saying that making a switch is always painful and will always piss off people who invested in the then obsolete type.
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pieter, aka pegelli
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« Reply #34 on: October 10, 2009, 02:47:45 AM »
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Quote from: K.C.
So 4 flashes that are no longer in production will be made obsolete. Seems like a reasonable cost of progress. That is, assuming that changing to the ISO standard would be progress


Switching back to a slow, inconvenient and insecure shoe (which dates back to 1913) is not progress. It's anti-progress.

Prog.
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alain
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« Reply #35 on: October 10, 2009, 04:49:46 AM »
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Quote from: K.C.
So 4 flashes that are no longer in production will be made obsolete. Seems like a reasonable cost of progress. That is, assuming that changing to the ISO standard would be progress

Well Sony has a few new flashes...  The minolta/Sony shoe is far easier and safer.  Sony would solve some beginners problems with making a FS1100 available themself's.

It would be a nice move from Sony to give a spirit level with new camera's, or provide dealers with them to give as freebee to good costumers.
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aaykay
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« Reply #36 on: October 10, 2009, 03:07:29 PM »
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Quote from: K.C.
So 4 flashes that are no longer in production will be made obsolete. Seems like a reasonable cost of progress. That is, assuming that changing to the ISO standard would be progress

They don't need to be made obsolete but can be made to function just fine, with an adapter.  I personally would like to move away from the superior but not-used-anywhere-or-by-anyone-else model of hotshoe that Sony inherited from Minolta.  That will open out a lot of doors when it comes to 3rd party lighting products for the Sony/Alpha system, without having to use kludgy adapters.

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aaykay
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« Reply #37 on: October 10, 2009, 03:21:07 PM »
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Quote from: Prognathous
Switching back to a slow, inconvenient and insecure shoe (which dates back to 1913) is not progress. It's anti-progress.

Prog.

Argument is very true, if the only products that would mount on the camera are the few flashes that the manufacturer comes up with for the mount.  Unfortunately, once you get into the professional space, dozens and dozens of lighting products are all built around the "inferior" but univerally applicable ISO mount.  

So when they came up with the "superior" ISO mount, if they were able to influence the other players also into moving toward it, then I would have been wholeheartedly supportive of the flash-mount that Sony inherited.  Unfortunately, moving unilaterally into a totally different model (regardless of how "superior" it may be), with not a single other manufacturer (or 3rd party manufacturer of lighting products)  following along, ESPECIALLY when you are a minnow in the larger scheme of things (as Minolta was), is not a recipe I personally would support.

Sony's memory stick may be superior in several respects to other flash memory devices but how supportive would the marketplace be, if Sony unilaterally adopted it across the board, REPLACING CF-cards and other memory media in their cameras ? Same philosophy at work here.  

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alain
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« Reply #38 on: October 10, 2009, 04:30:43 PM »
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Quote from: aaykay
They don't need to be made obsolete but can be made to function just fine, with an adapter.  I personally would like to move away from the superior but not-used-anywhere-or-by-anyone-else model of hotshoe that Sony inherited from Minolta.  That will open out a lot of doors when it comes to 3rd party lighting products for the Sony/Alpha system, without having to use kludgy adapters.

Strangly enough I find some 3rd party lighting product easier to use with an adaptor, just a better connection to the camera.  The only thing that's maybe not easier is having a heavy flash on camera with an adaptor, but thoses flashes are not compatible with the "automatic" flash system anyway.  Just like placing a modern Canon flash on a Nikon camera.

The increased sales from Sony will make even more third party products with the better flash shoe.
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Prognathous
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« Reply #39 on: October 10, 2009, 05:56:28 PM »
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Quote from: aaykay
I personally would like to move away from the superior but not-used-anywhere-or-by-anyone-else model of hotshoe that Sony inherited from Minolta.  That will open out a lot of doors when it comes to 3rd party lighting products for the Sony/Alpha system, without having to use kludgy adapters.

So you'd rather have the vast majority of Sony's user-base be forced to use a poor solution just so that you won't need to buy adapters? I think Sony is smart enough to weigh the benefits to their various user sectors. In short, the Minolta-type shoe isn't going away any time soon.

Quote from: aaykay
Argument is very true, if the only products that would mount on the camera are the few flashes that the manufacturer comes up with for the mount.  Unfortunately, once you get into the professional space, dozens and dozens of lighting products are all built around the "inferior" but univerally applicable ISO mount.

This may be so, but the "professional space" is a tiny minority when it comes to Sony's user-base. Why make everyone else suffer? Not only that, but pros can afford to permanently attach a $7 adapter to each of their units, making them much easier to use than with an ISO kludge on both sides.

Quote
Sony's memory stick may be superior in several respects to other flash memory devices but how supportive would the marketplace be, if Sony unilaterally adopted it across the board, REPLACING CF-cards and other memory media in their cameras ? Same philosophy at work here.

Bad example. The Minolta-type shoe has many real advantages over the ISO shoe. Memory sticks don't have any advantages over SD cards (which should IMHO, as a Minolta and Olympus user, replace CF cards). The benefit in going from CF to Memory sticks just isn't there, which is why no-one is advocating it. When it comes to flash hot-shoes, most Minolta and Sony users will be happy to explain to you why they wouldn't move back to the ISO shoe. Most of the whining comes from users of other systems who see this as a disadvantage worth picking on, while they're actually just being ignorant about the facts. Some Alpha-mount newcomers may take a while to grow and like something better than they're used to, but I'm sure eventually most of them will.

Prog.
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