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Author Topic: Fastest MF FF back frame-rate for H?  (Read 10837 times)
gwhitf
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« on: October 07, 2009, 10:11:55 AM »
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For shooting people/lifestyle, and environmental portraits, on the run, loose and free, untethered, can anyone tell me the fastest, most responsive MF fullish-frame back that's out there right now, shipping, for the Hasselblad H? Something like two frames a second recycle, or so? I'm wanting the most Viewfinder real estate, so the cropping backs are out, ie P30+ etc, P40+ etc. Trying to find a balance between large large viewfinder image and fast recycle. Secondary wish list would be 3" LCD, but that would probably narrow it down to Hasselblad-brand backs, which could be fine I guess.

In short, I'm wanting to keep the optical qualities from my H lenses, but shoot relatively fast, like the 5D2 feeling, but also be able to trust the LCD rendering pretty well.

Does this back exist? It's a last-ditch effort to justify keeping the H system. Leaf A75s? Hasselblad something? Megapixels do not matter; the main thing is the speed/recycle of the back, and the LCD quality. Thanks.

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Eurotographer
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« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2009, 10:14:43 AM »
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Quote from: gwhitf
For shooting people/lifestyle, and environmental portraits, on the run, loose and free, untethered, can anyone tell me the fastest, most responsive MF fullish-frame back that's out there right now, shipping, for the Hasselblad H? Something like two frames a second recycle, or so? I'm wanting the most Viewfinder real estate, so the cropping backs are out, ie P30+ etc, P40+ etc. Trying to find a balance between large large viewfinder image and fast recycle. Secondary wish list would be 3" LCD, but that would probably narrow it down to Hasselblad-brand backs, which could be fine I guess.

In short, I'm wanting to keep the optical qualities from my H lenses, but shoot relatively fast, like the 5D2 feeling, but also be able to trust the LCD rendering pretty well.

Does this back exist? It's a last-ditch effort to justify keeping the H system. Leaf A75s? Hasselblad something? Megapixels do not matter; the main thing is the speed/recycle of the back, and the LCD quality. Thanks.


The Hasselblad 50mp shoots at 1.1 seconds per frame, As important is the fact that it shoots this consistently.  There is no pause after the first frame for a black calibration, and with the new Sandisk cards there is no buffer!
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Frank Doorhof
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« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2009, 10:21:53 AM »
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None will shoot like a DSLR with 9fps.

HOWEVER, if you use the correct cards there is no buffer and to be honest I like that more than 4-5 fps.
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BJNY
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« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2009, 10:40:02 AM »
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GW,

Leaf Aptus 54s is fast, 22mpx

BJ
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Guillermo
gwhitf
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« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2009, 10:42:56 AM »
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Quote from: BJNY
GW,

Leaf Aptus 54s is fast, 22mpx

BJ

Thanks, Billy. But I think that back is a Cropping Back, isn't it? Lots of viewfinder lost. But 22MP is more than enough, and slightly less than a frame per second would be fine. I remember the responsiveness of the P21+ -- very fast and you never felt like you were going to miss the expression. But it too was a Cropping Back.

Kinda makes you wonder why Hasselblad wouldn't make various models of their H Viewfinder, and each one would magnify an amount, depending on the back that you had mounted, so that you never were penalized for using a Cropping Back. There'd be a 1.3 factor Viewfinder, and a Damn Near FF Viewfinder, etc etc. But let's not start in on them about their "Full Frame" marketing approaching, shall we? We're playing nice now.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2009, 10:45:40 AM by gwhitf » Logged
Steve Hendrix
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« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2009, 10:46:47 AM »
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Quote from: gwhitf
Thanks, Billy. But I think that back is a Cropping Back, isn't it? Lots of viewfinder lost. But 22MP is more than enough, and slightly less than a frame per second would be fine. I remember the responsiveness of the P21+ -- very fast and you never felt like you were going to miss the expression. But it too was a Cropping Back.


The Aptus 54-S is a 48mm x 36mm sensor, equivalent to what you are currently using. You'll need lots of light, though.


Steve Hendrix
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Steve Hendrix
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Greg Hollmann
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« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2009, 10:49:46 AM »
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Quote from: gwhitf
Thanks, Billy. But I think that back is a Cropping Back, isn't it? Lots of viewfinder lost. But 22MP is more than enough, and slightly less than a frame per second would be fine. I remember the responsiveness of the P21+ -- very fast and you never felt like you were going to miss the expression. But it too was a Cropping Back.

Kinda makes you wonder why Hasselblad wouldn't make various models of their H Viewfinder, and each one would magnify an amount, depending on the back that you had mounted, so that you never were penalized for using a Cropping Back. There'd be a 1.3 factor Viewfinder, and a Damn Near FF Viewfinder, etc etc. But let's not start in on them about their "Full Frame" marketing approaching, shall we? We're playing nice now.

Hasselblad makes 3 viewfinders:

HV90 - Full Frame viewfinder for film
HVD90 - Full Frame viewfinder for the H3D and H3DII 22, 39, and 50mp sensors - the is a magnified viewfinder
HVM - Full frame waist level viewfinder for film.

Greg
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Greg Hollmann
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TMARK
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« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2009, 10:52:58 AM »
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I'd second the Aptus 54s.  I have one on my RZ.  The LCD is big and low res, and is unusable above 100.

I was impressed with teh speed when I shot this back on an H2.
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gwhitf
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« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2009, 10:56:29 AM »
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Quote from: TMARK
is unusable above 100.

Whoa.

Cross that one off the list...

Wonder how many upset owners there are, of that back...? Yikes.

I'd be happy with this mystery back that produced clean ASA 400, (800 ideally, but I know I'm crowding the edge here with that request).
« Last Edit: October 07, 2009, 11:00:34 AM by gwhitf » Logged
gwhitf
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« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2009, 10:58:59 AM »
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Quote from: Greg Hollmann
HV90 - Full Frame viewfinder for film
HVD90 - Full Frame viewfinder for the H3D and H3DII 22, 39, and 50mp sensors - the is a magnified viewfinder
HVM - Full frame waist level viewfinder for film.

Thank you , Greg. Mine appears to be a HV90x, matched up (with a mask) with my P45+.
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Greg Hollmann
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« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2009, 11:16:34 AM »
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Quote from: gwhitf
Thank you , Greg. Mine appears to be a HV90x, matched up (with a mask) with my P45+.

GW,

Not sure where you are located, but if you're near NYC or coming in for Photo East, stop by Milk Studios and check out our system.  We will have a fashion setup where you can shoot with the H3DII-50, I think you'll be happy with the viewfinder, speed/consistency, as well as the image quality at 400 ISO.

Where:
Milk Studios
Penthouse
450 West 15th Street
New York, NY

When
October 22nd
10am - 5pm

Greg
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Greg Hollmann
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Juanito
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« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2009, 11:32:59 AM »
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I'm really happy with my Leaf Aptus 22. It shoots at around a frame a sec. I've never had to wait for it. Shooting MF is just a slower process than shooting small format. Usually, I'm popping 7b's when I shoot with it so it's the strobe recycle that holds me up.

In talking to Steve at Capture Integration yesterday, he informed me that the 54s is not going to be serviced by the new Leaf company nor are there likely to be software upgrades and such. The Aptus 22 however, which is older, looks like it will be serviced by Leaf and will hopefully be supported by Capture 1 when they update it for Leaf.

If you're expecting MF to behave like small format, you'll be disappointed. Best just to stick with Canon or Nikon if that's the case.

John
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tho_mas
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« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2009, 11:59:32 AM »
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Isn't the P65+ fast in sensor plus mode? Double the speed or so?
Would mean better high ISO and full frame... and if megapixles are not an issue the 15MP would be fine?
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Eurotographer
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« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2009, 12:02:05 PM »
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Quote from: tho_mas
Isn't the P65+ fast in sensor plus mode? Double the speed or so?
Would mean better high ISO and full frame... and if megapixles are not an issue the 15MP would be fine?

I would HIGHLY recommend looking at raw high ISO files from this back.  Not at all what i hoped to see!
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Eurotographer
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« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2009, 12:04:29 PM »
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Quote from: John-S
I'm sure your eyes would explode out of your head in dealing with learning and implementing a new piece of software into your workflow such as Phocus or something else. It's never as easy as any of them claim.

Most ignorant quote of the day!!!
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tho_mas
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« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2009, 12:04:51 PM »
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Quote from: Eurotographer
I would HIGHLY recommend looking at raw high ISO files from this back.  Not at all what i hoped to see!
might be true. But gwihtf(ysdfgharf) is talking about ISO400-800... is the P65+ that bad in sensor plus mode?

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Eurotographer
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« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2009, 12:10:54 PM »
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Quote from: John-S
Hey douchebag

Most obscene quote of the day
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JDG
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« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2009, 12:11:47 PM »
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Quote from: Eurotographer
I would HIGHLY recommend looking at raw high ISO files from this back.  Not at all what i hoped to see!


Interesting view on it... I actually saw the opposite in the high iso files I worked on... They looked better than anything else I had seen from other backs.

GW, P65+ is probably best, but I think the LCD rules it out for you.   Aptus II 10 might be worth a look though.
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tho_mas
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« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2009, 12:55:31 PM »
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Quote from: John-S
Back to the topic at hand.

I think a Canon or Nikon 21-24mp camera would be better in focusing quality and accuracy, lens lineup, screen quality and so much more that a P65+ in the sensor plus setup at 15mp. It's just not always about this pixel is better than that. It's also about usability, speed of shooting, speed of judging frames on the camera LCD for mixed lighting, etc..

It's always the landscape shooters who seem most content with the MFDBs. They have the least needs to be quite honest. When you ask shooters of other content, the level of satisfaction of the entire shooting process with MFD drops.
certainly very true. But we all - especially g.wtf as the spearhead of this point of view - knew that before. There must be a reason that he asked for a way to shoot his H other than pointing out again that there is no solution, no?
« Last Edit: October 07, 2009, 12:56:34 PM by tho_mas » Logged
Doug Peterson
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« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2009, 02:24:06 PM »
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Quote from: Eurotographer
I would HIGHLY recommend looking at raw high ISO files from this back.  Not at all what i hoped to see!

I would too because I think you'll find them to be really very good.

Bear in mind that using Capture One to view/adjust/process very high ISO images is a must. IMO that also applies to Canon files (e.g. the 5DII); C1 just does a better job of handling the high ISOs.

No back handles like a fast dSLR. The P65+ however is fast in full resolution and even faster at 15 megapixels. Shooting at 15 megapixels produces a VERY good file which could be easily compared to (or even beats) a 22 megapixel dSLR. At 15 megapixels the base ISO of the camera is upgraded to ISO200 with ISO 400 and ISO 800 being very good and 1600 and 3200 producing a slightly grained look that I find to be film like (if you want baby-butt smooth files then you never want the last two ISOs on a camera, but the "noise" on the 65+ IMO is a very pleasing grain).

It also has zero viewfinder crop; what you see is what you get.

Doug Peterson
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