Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: [1] 2 »   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: Panoramic stitched shots  (Read 9957 times)
Ed Blagden
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 491



WWW
« on: October 15, 2009, 01:58:21 AM »
ReplyReply

Hello all,

I am off to camp at the eastern edge of the Rift Valley next week, and the scenery there just cries out for panoramics.  However I have never shot panoramics before and I wonder if anyone could point me in the direction of any good "how to" advice.  I shoot with a 5D and have a tripod with ballhead setup.  Specifically:

- Which type of lenses are best - wide, tele, or standard 50mm?
- Exposure techniques - I assume this should be done manually, each shot with the same settings, using ETTR?
- Panning technique - do I have to keep the horizon in the middle of the frame?
- What software?  I have LR2.5, I don't have Photoshop (and nor am I going to get it just for this), and somewhere I have a CD for something called Photostitch which came with my 5D.  Is this any good?
- What is the best editing workflow?

I'd appreciate any pointers.  Thanks!

Ed
Logged

Visit my Flickr page
BernardLanguillier
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8182



WWW
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2009, 02:35:02 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: Ed B
Hello all,

I am off to camp at the eastern edge of the Rift Valley next week, and the scenery there just cries out for panoramics.  However I have never shot panoramics before and I wonder if anyone could point me in the direction of any good "how to" advice.  I shoot with a 5D and have a tripod with ballhead setup.  Specifically:

- Which type of lenses are best - wide, tele, or standard 50mm?

On a 5D, I would say that a 60-70 mm lens is often a good comprise for general pano work. Lack of light fall should be a high priority in selecting such a lens.

Quote from: Ed B
- Exposure techniques - I assume this should be done manually, each shot with the same settings, using ETTR?

Indeed.

Quote from: Ed B
- Panning technique - do I have to keep the horizon in the middle of the frame?

Parallax will be a problem if you have near objects in the frame and simply shoot with a regular head. Panoramic heads make it possible to locate the camera on top of the nodal point of the lens for parallax free shooting. They will also enable you to point up or down without tilting the camera left or right which will reduce problems.

Without one of these, position you tripod in such a way that the based supporting the head is horizontal, then rotate using the rotating based of your head if you have one.

Quote from: Ed B
- What software?  I have LR2.5, I don't have Photoshop (and nor am I going to get it just for this), and somewhere I have a CD for something called Photostitch which came with my 5D.  Is this any good?

Mostly crap, Autopano pro is the best option for somebody like you.

Quote from: Ed B
- What is the best editing workflow?

Shoot -> convert from raw to tiff in your normal raw conversion software -> autopano pro for pano work -> you typical retouching app for final re^touch.

One quick sample for the road...



Regards,
Bernard
Logged

A few images online here!
Photo Op
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 193


« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2009, 05:30:57 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: Ed B
Hello all,

- What software?  I have LR2.5, I don't have Photoshop (and nor am I going to get it just for this), and somewhere I have a CD for something called Photostitch which came with my 5D.  Is this any good?
I'd appreciate any pointers.  Thanks!

Ed

Ed- check this out for the Mac.

http://www.arcsoft.com/public/software_tit...&dyContent=


--Dave
Logged

David
ErikKaffehr
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 7630


WWW
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2009, 07:20:47 AM »
ReplyReply

Hi

I have some article on the issue: http://83.177.178.241/ekr/index.php/photoa...a-and-stitching

There was a lot of good discussion on LL forum starting from that article:

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=36973

Best regards
Erik

« Last Edit: October 15, 2009, 07:23:37 AM by ErikKaffehr » Logged

ErikKaffehr
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 7630


WWW
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2009, 07:29:49 AM »
ReplyReply

Hi,

I hope you enjoy your trip!

Se response below

Best regards
Erik

Quote from: Ed B
Hello all,

I am off to camp at the eastern edge of the Rift Valley next week, and the scenery there just cries out for panoramics.  However I have never shot panoramics before and I wonder if anyone could point me in the direction of any good "how to" advice.  I shoot with a 5D and have a tripod with ballhead setup.  Specifically:

- Which type of lenses are best - wide, tele, or standard 50mm?
Any that works. Beware of extreme wide angles
- Exposure techniques - I assume this should be done manually, each shot with the same settings, using ETTR?
Manual exposure may be safest but not necessarily optimal. If using ETTR it should be based on brightest part.
- Panning technique - do I have to keep the horizon in the middle of the frame?
It's easiest, but may not be necessary. Take extra picture left and right if tilting camera as the resulting image is hard to predict.
- What software?  I have LR2.5, I don't have Photoshop (and nor am I going to get it just for this), and somewhere I have a CD for something called Photostitch which came with my 5D.  Is this any good?
I use Autopano Pro,  there are others.
- What is the best editing workflow?
I discuss this in my article: http://83.177.178.241/ekr/index.php/photoa...a-and-stitching



I'd appreciate any pointers.  Thanks!

Ed
Logged

Luis Argerich
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 155


Astrolandscaper


WWW
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2009, 08:35:35 AM »
ReplyReply

Same recommendations as Bernard's
I'd add that unless shutter speed is not ok for handheld work you don't need a tripod. Shooting handheld or from a tripod without a pano head is exactly the same regarding the panoramic work as long as the shutter speed being used is ok for handheld operation.
Make sure you overlap generously between shots, I'd say 30% or 40% this will help the pano software assemble the pano without many errors.
Check Hugin as a free software option for pano work that is miles ahead of PS, if you want to buy something then PtGui pro, PtAssembler are also options.

Logged

Ed Blagden
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 491



WWW
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2009, 09:21:00 AM »
ReplyReply

Thanks everybody - I really appreciate the guidance from people who so evidently know what they are talking about.  If I remember I will post the resultant pano on this forum after I have gotten back from the Rift Valley.



Quote from: luigis
Same recommendations as Bernard's
I'd add that unless shutter speed is not ok for handheld work you don't need a tripod. Shooting handheld or from a tripod without a pano head is exactly the same regarding the panoramic work as long as the shutter speed being used is ok for handheld operation.
Make sure you overlap generously between shots, I'd say 30% or 40% this will help the pano software assemble the pano without many errors.
Check Hugin as a free software option for pano work that is miles ahead of PS, if you want to buy something then PtGui pro, PtAssembler are also options.

OK - my takeaway from this is that I don't have to be too anal about pano-heads etc provided my subject is in the distance (which it will be).  Of course for landscapes I prefer to shoot on a tripod anyway for simple IQ reasons.

I'll look at Hugin tonight before getting the credit card out.

Logged

Visit my Flickr page
wolfnowl
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5783



WWW
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2009, 10:32:58 AM »
ReplyReply

Didn't see this mentioned, but since you asked - yes, don't forget to put your camera in Manual exposure mode, and use the same exposure settings for each image.  If you're in A or S or P or... mode, you may end up with different exposures and this will definitely show up when you try to stitch the images together.  Do a quick pan through the image to find out what the best exposure is without blowing out the highlights.

I have Hugin and I like it MOST of the time, but for difficult stitches I prefer Autopano Pro.

Mike.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2009, 10:34:37 AM by wolfnowl » Logged

If your mind is attuned to beauty, you find beauty in everything.
~ Jean Cooke ~


My Flickr site / Random Thoughts and Other Meanderings at M&M's Musings
Luis Argerich
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 155


Astrolandscaper


WWW
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2009, 10:37:14 AM »
ReplyReply

If you are on a non pano head tripod make sure to get an L bracket to shot in portrait orientation. (what a stupid tip ah?)


Quote from: Ed B
Thanks everybody - I really appreciate the guidance from people who so evidently know what they are talking about.  If I remember I will post the resultant pano on this forum after I have gotten back from the Rift Valley.

OK - my takeaway from this is that I don't have to be too anal about pano-heads etc provided my subject is in the distance (which it will be).  Of course for landscapes I prefer to shoot on a tripod anyway for simple IQ reasons.

I'll look at Hugin tonight before getting the credit card out.
Logged

markhout
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 176



WWW
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2009, 01:17:50 PM »
ReplyReply

Great tips all!

Let me add manual focus to the list.

And sometimes the dynamic range in the panorama is too large to capture. It would then make sense to bracket each shot - see my explanation here.

Mark
Logged

Panopeeper
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1805


« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2009, 01:50:22 PM »
ReplyReply

1. My first advice is be careful with advices.

2. There are quite a few aspects of creating panoramas; they need to be understood, not to be learnt. I find it strange, that you did not make at least some tries of panoramas before going on such a trip.

3. Shooting each frame with the same setting and striving for ETTR are incompatible in most settings.
Logged

Gabor
wolfnowl
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5783



WWW
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2009, 04:02:38 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: Panopeeper
Shooting each frame with the same setting and striving for ETTR are incompatible in most settings.

True enough for some images, especially if shooting into the sun.  As Mark suggested, bracketing is a good idea - PTGui and Autopano Pro for example will work with multiple exposures of each image.

Mike.
Logged

If your mind is attuned to beauty, you find beauty in everything.
~ Jean Cooke ~


My Flickr site / Random Thoughts and Other Meanderings at M&M's Musings
ArunGaur
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 57


« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2009, 11:46:51 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: BernardLanguillier
On a 5D, I would say that a 60-70 mm lens is often a good comprise for general pano work. Lack of light fall should be a high priority in selecting such a lens.



Indeed.



Parallax will be a problem if you have near objects in the frame and simply shoot with a regular head. Panoramic heads make it possible to locate the camera on top of the nodal point of the lens for parallax free shooting. They will also enable you to point up or down without tilting the camera left or right which will reduce problems.

Without one of these, position you tripod in such a way that the based supporting the head is horizontal, then rotate using the rotating based of your head if you have one.



Mostly crap, Autopano pro is the best option for somebody like you.



Shoot -> convert from raw to tiff in your normal raw conversion software -> autopano pro for pano work -> you typical retouching app for final re^touch.

One quick sample for the road...



Regards,
Bernard

It is always good to use pan head.
Arun Gaur

http://tripolia-indianlandscapeimages.com

Logged
Ed Blagden
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 491



WWW
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2009, 01:10:35 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: Panopeeper
1. My first advice is be careful with advices.

True, but the trick is to be able to distinguish between the good and the bad.  Better to ask and reject than not to ask at all.


Quote from: Panopeeper
2. There are quite a few aspects of creating panoramas; they need to be understood, not to be learnt. I find it strange, that you did not make at least some tries of panoramas before going on such a trip.

Er, I think you missed the tense here.  I'm going in a week from now.  Future tense.  Of course, I will do some test shots of garden, house etc before I go.  I don't see what is so strange about asking advice from people who know before trying out a new technique.  One has to start somewhere.

Quote from: Panopeeper
3. Shooting each frame with the same setting and striving for ETTR are incompatible in most settings.

That's interesting.  I would have thought that the thing to do would be to pick the individual frame with the highest highlights, find the ETTR exposure for that particular frame, and then use that manual exposure for each frame in the scene.  In other words, ETTR for the whole scene.

Logged

Visit my Flickr page
wolfnowl
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5783



WWW
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2009, 02:22:35 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: Ed B
That's interesting.  I would have thought that the thing to do would be to pick the individual frame with the highest highlights, find the ETTR exposure for that particular frame, and then use that manual exposure for each frame in the scene.  In other words, ETTR for the whole scene.

Yes, but if you're creating a panorma of a large area, especially if you're shooting into the sun, your 'proper' exposure can vary by more than five or six or eight stops.  So if you set your exposure for the highlights in the brightest part of the scene, once you get out to the periphery you might find that your image is mostly black at that exposure.  It's really scene dependent.  Here's an example where I exposed for the clouds on the right, which kept some detail in the sunset on the left, but I had to let the foreground mountains drop to black.  I didn't have time to bracket here because the light was changing so fast.

[attachment=17241:DSCF5311_P.jpg]

Mike.
Logged

If your mind is attuned to beauty, you find beauty in everything.
~ Jean Cooke ~


My Flickr site / Random Thoughts and Other Meanderings at M&M's Musings
Ed Blagden
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 491



WWW
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2009, 03:06:27 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: wolfnowl
Yes, but if you're creating a panorma of a large area, especially if you're shooting into the sun, your 'proper' exposure can vary by more than five or six or eight stops.  So if you set your exposure for the highlights in the brightest part of the scene, once you get out to the periphery you might find that your image is mostly black at that exposure.  It's really scene dependent.  Here's an example where I exposed for the clouds on the right, which kept some detail in the sunset on the left, but I had to let the foreground mountains drop to black.  I didn't have time to bracket here because the light was changing so fast.


Mike.

Mike

That's still a nice shot, even if the mountain is clipped...

I would be interested to know the workflow if you do bracket.   I understand that each panoramic should be assembled from shots taken at the same exposure.  So do you make several panoramics from each of the bracket levels and then do some kind of HDR from the resulting set of panoramics?

Thanks


Ed

Logged

Visit my Flickr page
ErikKaffehr
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 7630


WWW
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2009, 06:50:52 AM »
ReplyReply

Hi!

That was the approach I used initally. Nowdays I often just shot on automatic. Modern stitchers can handle both approaches. You may try both!

Best regards
Erik

Quote from: Ed B
True, but the trick is to be able to distinguish between the good and the bad.  Better to ask and reject than not to ask at all.




Er, I think you missed the tense here.  I'm going in a week from now.  Future tense.  Of course, I will do some test shots of garden, house etc before I go.  I don't see what is so strange about asking advice from people who know before trying out a new technique.  One has to start somewhere.



That's interesting.  I would have thought that the thing to do would be to pick the individual frame with the highest highlights, find the ETTR exposure for that particular frame, and then use that manual exposure for each frame in the scene.  In other words, ETTR for the whole scene.
Logged

wolfnowl
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5783



WWW
« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2009, 10:36:56 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: Ed B
I would be interested to know the workflow if you do bracket.   I understand that each panoramic should be assembled from shots taken at the same exposure.  So do you make several panoramics from each of the bracket levels and then do some kind of HDR from the resulting set of panoramics?

Depends on the software, but if you're using Autopano Pro for example, and let's say you've got nine images to stitch and 3 exposures of each, you just lump all 27 images together and let the software figure it out.  Does a good job.

Mike.
Logged

If your mind is attuned to beauty, you find beauty in everything.
~ Jean Cooke ~


My Flickr site / Random Thoughts and Other Meanderings at M&M's Musings
Ed Blagden
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 491



WWW
« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2009, 01:42:27 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: Ed B
Thanks everybody - I really appreciate the guidance from people who so evidently know what they are talking about.  If I remember I will post the resultant pano on this forum after I have gotten back from the Rift Valley.


OK, as promised (or should that be threatened?) I attach an attempt at a pano from the weekend.  The original is a 37MP monster.

[attachment=17510:Riftpano1_0000.jpg]
Logged

Visit my Flickr page
AndrewKulin
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 333



WWW
« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2009, 05:23:49 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: Ed B
OK, as promised (or should that be threatened?) I attach an attempt at a pano from the weekend.  The original is a 37MP monster.

[attachment=17510:Riftpano1_0000.jpg]

Excellent job - I particularly love what is going on in the sky - the clouds, the rays, the rain showers in the distance.

Andrew
Logged

Pages: [1] 2 »   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad