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Author Topic: LC 11 ???? will it ever be upgraded???  (Read 18826 times)
mcfoto
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« Reply #100 on: October 27, 2009, 02:32:24 AM »
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Having used Leaf & following this thread, i talked to a Leaf person here in Sydney who is on the Kodak side. She mentioned that the new Aptus II backs are different from the previous models. what I could understand is that it is not a simple SW issue. It is inside the back HW & they will not work with C1 unless what has been stated here which means money to do so.
At least you have the option to do so.
Denis
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Denis Montalbetti
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Frank Doorhof
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« Reply #101 on: October 27, 2009, 02:33:49 AM »
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Maybe it's nice to know that the new Snow Leopard Leaf Capture probably version 11.2.9 will be released next week.

It will probably feature enhanced image processing for the 33-56MP backs, enhanced computer speed performance and is free for all Leaf users.

So that's for free :-)


@MC,
It's the same thing I heard and I posted a few posts ago that it could be due to the fact that Kodak services the old backs and Leaf Imaging is a new company.
Imagine what would happen if Kodak would decline repairs because the firmware was changed or something in the hardware, I guess that's why they sell it with a new warranty, in other words the warranty is taken over by Leaf Imaging but that's my own interpretation of course. Personally I would like an option were you can get the upgrade but loose your warranty, I think a lot of Aptus22 backs are already out of warranty.

For me the most important thing is that I can keep using Leaf Capture (that's what I bought the back with and it never was opted that Capture One would EVER work) and with the new improved Leaf Capture coming next week for SL I think the mind of some people will be at ease ?
« Last Edit: October 27, 2009, 02:41:10 AM by Frank Doorhof » Logged
evgeny
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« Reply #102 on: October 27, 2009, 04:25:35 AM »
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Quote from: Frank Doorhof
For me the most important thing is that I can keep using Leaf Capture (that's what I bought the back with and it never was opted that Capture One would EVER work) and with the new improved Leaf Capture coming next week for SL I think the mind of some people will be at ease ?

Frank, as far as I understand, Phase One will stop development of the Leaf Capture, so the 11.2.9 will be the last release for the digital backs sold when Leaf was a Kodak division.

That is either a cancellation of the Leaf Capture software or no future LC releases for the Leaf/Kodak digital backs.
If this will happen, Leaf backs will not work under future (after Snow Leopard) major releases of MAC OS.
So, I would rather not show enthusiastic support for the Leaf Imagine (P1) plans.
Regards
« Last Edit: October 27, 2009, 04:28:12 AM by evgeny » Logged
UlfKrentz
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« Reply #103 on: October 27, 2009, 05:44:28 AM »
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Quote from: evgeny
Frank, as far as I understand, Phase One will stop development of the Leaf Capture, so the 11.2.9 will be the last release for the digital backs sold when Leaf was a Kodak division.

That is either a cancellation of the Leaf Capture software or no future LC releases for the Leaf/Kodak digital backs.
If this will happen, Leaf backs will not work under future (after Snow Leopard) major releases of MAC OS.
So, I would rather not show enthusiastic support for the Leaf Imagine (P1) plans.
Regards


As far as I was told Leaf Imaging is trying to keep LC alive as long as possible. There might be a cancellation through P1 in the future, but definitly not before the Leaf backs will be able to tether to C1. I wont buy an update to use C1, even if I will be stucked in 2010 with future software updates, the tif files processed will be readable in future OSs. Leaf should create new backs with new functions and may be an ever bigger sized sensor (not for the MPX-Race but for rendering the bigger size of MF), thats the way I would like to "update".

Cheers

Ulf
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Frank Doorhof
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« Reply #104 on: October 27, 2009, 09:09:54 AM »
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Don't know told you that LC will be cancelled, what I heard is that they will continue as long as possible and that the SL version is not the last. That's why I posted in this thread about not having to upgrade if they would stop now the story also for me would be different although with a dual boot everything is solved.
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TMARK
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« Reply #105 on: October 27, 2009, 12:03:14 PM »
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Quote from: Frank Doorhof
The thing I don't understand is that some people are claiming they will abandon MF now..... that's just weird.
What's changed ?

Hey Frank,

Its the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back.  That's all.  I wrote above why the backs don't fit my workflow or style anymore.  In order to be workable I need semi clean 800.  The P30+ was hit or miss at 800.  It was hit or miss at 400, but more hit than miss.  The P65 looks like it makes a nice 800 iso file, at 15 megapix.  But so did my 1ds2.  The P65 is $40k+, to do what a $2k (used) 1ds2 could do handily.  I know IQ is better, but for small print, web and broadcast, come one.  If I want the MF look, I can shoot film, get a better and more pronouced MF look.  Or shoot 4x5.  

If I were still shooting beauty, I would no doubt use a back.  But for everything else I do, dslr, M8, or film does it all, cheaper, with less pain in the ass factor.  

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Frank Doorhof
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« Reply #106 on: October 27, 2009, 12:27:47 PM »
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Quote from: TMARK
Hey Frank,

Its the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back.  That's all.  I wrote above why the backs don't fit my workflow or style anymore.  In order to be workable I need semi clean 800.  The P30+ was hit or miss at 800.  It was hit or miss at 400, but more hit than miss.  The P65 looks like it makes a nice 800 iso file, at 15 megapix.  But so did my 1ds2.  The P65 is $40k+, to do what a $2k (used) 1ds2 could do handily.  I know IQ is better, but for small print, web and broadcast, come one.  If I want the MF look, I can shoot film, get a better and more pronouced MF look.  Or shoot 4x5.  

If I were still shooting beauty, I would no doubt use a back.  But for everything else I do, dslr, M8, or film does it all, cheaper, with less pain in the ass factor.
Without a doubt you are right.
My workflow is however 90% working with strobes and shooting at ISO100 as a max so for me it's a different story.
Heck when I go above ISO200 I immediately take out my DSLR, they are great for that.
I think it's like it has always been, horses for courses.
I really don't like my 5DMKII at f16 and above to be honest and I love it at f2.8-f8.0
The good thing is you can switch as much as you want, I shoot some sessions with both cameras next to each other, some available light with the DSLR and the strobe shots with MF, both tethered to the same laptop.

IF one would indeed do a lot of work with available light, location work and stuff that needs to go fast indeed now a days the DSLR is more than capable.
To be honest I really would not know IF I would have switched if I had to do it now....
Probably would if I had seen the quality, but I'm afraid I never would have even tried out the quality because I could live with the 5DMKII at the moment.
But now that I am shooting MF and have my system complete and know the quality I'm not selling it any day soon, unless....... the 5DMKIII is much better with less difraction
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pixjohn
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« Reply #107 on: October 27, 2009, 01:59:36 PM »
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How is it everyone knows so much about the Leaf software and upgrades but neither Leaf or Phase One has anything to say? Will the next LC11 fix the gain adjuster bug?

Quote from: Frank Doorhof
Maybe it's nice to know that the new Snow Leopard Leaf Capture probably version 11.2.9 will be released next week.

It will probably feature enhanced image processing for the 33-56MP backs, enhanced computer speed performance and is free for all Leaf users.

So that's for free :-)
« Last Edit: October 27, 2009, 02:03:14 PM by pixjohn » Logged
pixjohn
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« Reply #108 on: October 28, 2009, 12:53:44 AM »
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I see the new C1 Pro 5 is out, will it work with the Aptus 75 files or not?
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Christopher
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« Reply #109 on: October 28, 2009, 01:55:21 AM »
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Quote from: pixjohn
I see the new C1 Pro 5 is out, will it work with the Aptus 75 files or not?

Well I can't even get a connection to the phase download page ^^
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collum
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« Reply #110 on: October 28, 2009, 02:46:12 AM »
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Well.. not surprisingly,  the release version of 5.0 doesn't support legacy Leaf files.
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collum
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« Reply #111 on: October 28, 2009, 09:17:56 AM »
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Quote from: John-S
No legacy Leaf files will work in Capture One, now or in the future.

well.. this hadn't quite been fully established. There was a 'wait.. we made a mistake, and we're re-thinking our position' posting by Leaf. Reading of legacy Leaf files is *not* dependent upon a firmware upgrade. They support every other Raw format on the planet. If they're already supporting the 'new' Leaf .mos files, then there is *no* additional software development effort to do this.  This is a marketing decision to motivate older users to buy warranty services. This is separate from 'we will support the backs' from a technical/physical support perspective.
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collum
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« Reply #112 on: October 28, 2009, 09:27:57 AM »
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Quote from: collum
well.. this hadn't quite been fully established. There was a 'wait.. we made a mistake, and we're re-thinking our position' posting by Leaf. Reading of legacy Leaf files is *not* dependent upon a firmware upgrade. They support every other Raw format on the planet. If they're already supporting the 'new' Leaf .mos files, then there is *no* additional software development effort to do this.  This is a marketing decision to motivate older users to buy warranty services. This is separate from 'we will support the backs' from a technical/physical support perspective.

... which was just confirmed in a thread Yair posted. Legacy Leaf files *will* be supported starting in the next release (minor) of Capture One 5 (so.. probably 5.1). Separating this from the Leaf back warranty makes perfect sense (well.. at least from a customer view   )


Thanks for your effort in all of this Yair!

        jim
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UlfKrentz
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« Reply #113 on: October 28, 2009, 09:33:17 AM »
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Quote from: collum
well.. this hadn't quite been fully established. There was a 'wait.. we made a mistake, and we're re-thinking our position' posting by Leaf. Reading of legacy Leaf files is *not* dependent upon a firmware upgrade. They support every other Raw format on the planet. If they're already supporting the 'new' Leaf .mos files, then there is *no* additional software development effort to do this.  This is a marketing decision to motivate older users to buy warranty services. This is separate from 'we will support the backs' from a technical/physical support perspective.


Hi,

Yair started that new post. Take a look, what is written in the news section: "In addition, file support for all Leaf Aptus backs will be added in the next version of Capture One PRO."

Future development of LC will continue at the moment, even our very old Valeo22 Back is still working with LC11! If you wish to use C1, go and buy it like the Nikon, Canon users have to, too. Im not keen on C1. For us there is no reason to complain now.

The only thing that is not answered yet is what is with pixjohns gain adjuster.

Cheers

Ulf
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pixjohn
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« Reply #114 on: October 28, 2009, 11:03:21 AM »
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This makes no sense, I would think selling $400 copies of C1 Pro 5 would bring in additional revenue? If LC 11 is not a long term software most users would buy the software.  2000 - 5000  users at $400 is a chunk of change.  

Quote from: John-S
Sure, someone at Leaf at or Phase may change their mind, but I doubt it because as he said, they have no intentions of testing every back, every file from every Leaf to work with Capture One in multiple OS's on multiple platforms. All that is time and money with no return to them.

If things have truly changed, then wonderful, but I doubt they are. Their finance guru is the one running the numbers on everything as explained. So I don't see how anything has changed on the back end.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2009, 11:03:52 AM by pixjohn » Logged
pixjohn
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« Reply #115 on: October 28, 2009, 11:11:37 AM »
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Thank you for pointing this out, because the old Leaf and new leaf could careless. I talked to a Lawyer and he is looking into what legal remidies I have. I feel lied to and screwed.  I bought the Leaf Aptus back based on shooting tethered with the use of the gain adjuster. If anyone wants to look up the past years of post regarding this topic you will have lots to read. Other photographers where smarter and returned the Leaf backs for full refunds because it did not work.


Quote from: UlfKrentz
Hi,

Yair started that new post. Take a look, what is written in the news section: "In addition, file support for all Leaf Aptus backs will be added in the next version of Capture One PRO."

Future development of LC will continue at the moment, even our very old Valeo22 Back is still working with LC11! If you wish to use C1, go and buy it like the Nikon, Canon users have to, too. Im not keen on C1. For us there is no reason to complain now.

The only thing that is not answered yet is what is with pixjohns gain adjuster.

Cheers

Ulf
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asf
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« Reply #116 on: October 28, 2009, 11:42:00 AM »
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pixjohn can you explain again what is not working with the gain adjuster?
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collum
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« Reply #117 on: October 28, 2009, 01:06:53 PM »
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Quote from: John-S
I personally don't know who in the hell would pay $400 for CO. I bought a license some 5 years ago with the multi upgrade path at that time. I still have one or two more full upgrades left which might go another 2-4 years. After that, I would probably not buy a new version, it's not worth that money to me. Lightroom is ten times the app and at less cost and only gets better. CO sort of improves but seems to go backwards sometimes. I am amazed that CO 5 is out. I demoed CO 5 at PhotoPlus, it needed a helluva lot of work to make that for prime time.

And I find the Phase software developers to be smart but clueless to how their app is used and what functions work in the real world the way they think it should. I have a laundry list of things in CO 4.8.3 that just make me bang my head against a wall. I guess users don't actually push buttons or move sliders to see what works and was only half thought about.

I believe it's unrealistic to think that legacy Leaf owners would buy a license to CO Pro. I would bet at best 5%. And while Leaf does sell plenty of backs, they don't sell anywhere the volume of Phase and many owners are repeats. It would be fascinating to see how many actual Leaf owners there are currently. I owned one and did enjoy using it, but it just doesn't fit my needs for now, so it was sold.

Well.. Legacy Leaf owner here (75s).. *love* the back and the files it produces.

I've been a CO user/owner since it was first introduced. The workflow has always been a little off... but it has always produced the best output from any raw converter (at least for Canon 1ds, 1dsmk2, Nikon D3, Leica M8 files). For the most part, I use Lightroom for image organization, printing and quick web page output, and quick RAW conversions. For portfolio images, I put them thru CO (and then import and stack them in Lightroom). I'm looking forward to seeing what they do with Leaf files (although LC has always produced the best Raw output for them.. over Lightroom and Raw Developer)
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Steve Hendrix
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« Reply #118 on: October 28, 2009, 01:23:36 PM »
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Quote from: John-S
And I find the Phase software developers to be smart but clueless to how their app is used and what functions work in the real world the way they think it should. I have a laundry list of things in CO 4.8.3 that just make me bang my head against a wall. I guess users don't actually push buttons or move sliders to see what works and was only half thought about.



John:

Quite a few of the suggestions we received from end users were implemented in Capture One 5 (and in some of the incremental updates to CO 4). If you do have a list, would love to go through it with you. It's proven beneficial in the past.


Thanks,
Steve Hendrix
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Steve Hendrix
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pixjohn
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« Reply #119 on: October 28, 2009, 02:10:25 PM »
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See thread

Quote from: asf
pixjohn can you explain again what is not working with the gain adjuster?
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