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Author Topic: EIZO CG241W versus NEC2690 and calibration device question  (Read 5925 times)
zobelinski
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« on: October 20, 2009, 07:27:20 PM »
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hi there,
having looked throughout the forum, I could not find an answer to the following question.:
I have an EIZO CG241W, which I've worked with for 1 1/2 Years now.
I love it, except for the fact that I can't get rid of green or magenta casts in the deepest blacks, regardless of colour or BW work. tried every available combination(gammas,WPcal,native etc.)
I calibrate with spyder 3 and colour eyes display pro.
I'm now looking at expanding my workspace and 30 inches would be amazing.
so
would the NEC calibrate well with the spyder and CEDpro?
what about brightness?
I currently work at 110cd, which is still a bit too bright compared with the prints out of my 3800.
would the NEC work with 110 or less?
and what about overall quality of colours in comparison?
I'm aware that some of you really like the NEC, but has someone actually switched from EIZO to NEC ?
 thanks for your answers
stephan from NZ

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mac pro 12 gb,eizo241W,LR,nikon,fuji
Gigapixel
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« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2009, 05:03:18 AM »
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Quote from: zobelinski
hi there,
having looked throughout the forum, I could not find an answer to the following question.:
I have an EIZO CG241W, which I've worked with for 1 1/2 Years now.
I love it, except for the fact that I can't get rid of green or magenta casts in the deepest blacks, regardless of colour or BW work. tried every available combination(gammas,WPcal,native etc.)
I calibrate with spyder 3 and colour eyes display pro.
I'm now looking at expanding my workspace and 30 inches would be amazing.
so
would the NEC calibrate well with the spyder and CEDpro?
what about brightness?
I currently work at 110cd, which is still a bit too bright compared with the prints out of my 3800.
would the NEC work with 110 or less?
and what about overall quality of colours in comparison?
I'm aware that some of you really like the NEC, but has someone actually switched from EIZO to NEC ?
 thanks for your answers
stephan from NZ

I've got a CG242W, which is essentially the same as the CG241W with only some minor tweaks of the S-PVA-panel and a DisplayPort input. I've also noticed the magenta cast in the deepest black, most noticeable on the left edge. I use the ColorNavigator, which I found to give the most consistent results across a variety of calibration devices. Using the ColorNavigator, the magenta/orange cast occurs whichever device (i1 pro, i1 display 2, DTP94b) I use as long as the optimization method for the gamma adjustment is set to "neutral". In this case the deepest black is set to the lowest *neutral* black which is considerably lighter than the deepest "black" the monitor is capable of. The S-PVA-panel isn't all that good in displaying deep shades homogeneously across the screen, due to its rather poor viewing angle and thus induces a noticeable magenta/orange glow on the left edge. With "contrast"-priority, the deepest black is set to the black with the lowest luminance which leaves only a slightly lighter, but visually neutral left edge.

Both other software packages I use (iColor Display 3.5 from Quato and basICColor 4.1) also offer a setting for the tone-curve with "lowest black" instead of "lowest neutral black". I'd suggest to use the Spyder3 device with ColorNavigator, which is a free download. Moreover, the Spyder3 is compatible with all mentioned software packages, with the enclosed DataColor-Software certainly not the best. My tests show that only the ColorNavigator matches colorimeters like the i1 display 2, the DTP94 and probably the Spyder3 properly to Eizo's own wide-gamut-screens, since the color filters of colorimeters require heavy corrections in the software. Only spectrophotometers like the i1 or ColorMunki are able to handle Wide-Gamut-Displays without software corrections.

It's a pity that the S-PVA-Panel of the Eizo CG241W/CG242W is prone to color and gamma shifts even when viewed from the slightest angle. Most notably dark tones are perceptibly lighter when they are not placed in the center of the screen. IPS-based screens like the SpectraView 2690 or the new Eizo CG243W are "infinitely" more stable with respect to head movements. Both models are a worthwile upgrade and given the choice, I certainly wouldn't buy the CG242W again (The NEC Spectraview 2690 wasn't available in Switzerland at the time). Due to the color shift, (S-)PVA-basel panels are at least in my view not suitable for serious photographic editing at all!

Matthias
« Last Edit: October 21, 2009, 05:04:39 AM by Gigapixel » Logged
Guenter
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« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2009, 02:04:13 PM »
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Quote from: Gigapixel
It's a pity that the S-PVA-Panel of the Eizo CG241W/CG242W is prone to color and gamma shifts even when viewed from the slightest angle. Most notably dark tones are perceptibly lighter when they are not placed in the center of the screen. IPS-based screens like the SpectraView 2690 or the new Eizo CG243W are "infinitely" more stable with respect to head movements. Both models are a worthwile upgrade and given the choice, I certainly wouldn't buy the CG242W again (The NEC Spectraview 2690 wasn't available in Switzerland at the time). Due to the color shift, (S-)PVA-basel panels are at least in my view not suitable for serious photographic editing at all!

Matthias


Hi all,

I guess these color casts are visible too on the respective software-calibrated monitors from EIZO or NEC.

I am interested in one of these monitors (Eizo SX2462W or NEC 2690 Wuxi2). What about color casts of these monitors and the chance to avoid it by software calibration or individual settings?


Guenter
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NashvilleMike
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« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2009, 03:15:45 PM »
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Quote from: Guenter
Hi all,

I guess these color casts are visible too on the respective software-calibrated monitors from EIZO or NEC.

I am interested in one of these monitors (Eizo SX2462W or NEC 2690 Wuxi2). What about color casts of these monitors and the chance to avoid it by software calibration or individual settings?


Guenter

I can't comment on the 2690, but on my NEC 2490, calibrated with NEC Spectraview, my blacks (actually, my entire gray scale) are neutral to my eye without any casts, and while I'm not sure it matters, I tend to run around 105-110 cd/m2 luminance. The only Eizo I've seen recently is the 1500$ 21" model and it had neutral, rich blacks as well. Haven't seen any of the CGW 24" series.

-m
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Gigapixel
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« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2009, 05:24:42 PM »
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Quote from: Guenter
I guess these color casts are visible too on the respective software-calibrated monitors from EIZO or NEC.

The lightening and "color cast" of the deepest black depends on the calibration setting ("lowest neutral" vs. "lowest" black) with either software or hardware calibration.

Quote from: Guenter
I am interested in one of these monitors (Eizo SX2462W or NEC 2690 Wuxi2). What about color casts of these monitors and the chance to avoid it by software calibration or individual settings?

Both displays are equipped with IPS panels and should therefore behave in a similar way. Since both are lacking an A-TW polarizer, I expect them to show a distinct orange/magenta cast in the deepest blacks when viewed from an angle, as this was and still is typical for displays with panels of type IPS/S-IPS/H-IPS/DD-IPS. A special enhancement like the A-TW polarizing sheet was used in order to enlarge the viewing angle, but LG, which was the only manufacturer using this technology, is reportedly not offering this panel anymore. It was used in the first version of the NEC 2690Wuxi and I think is still used in the SpectraView 2690.

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Gigapixel
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« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2009, 05:35:22 PM »
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Quote from: NashvilleMike
I can't comment on the 2690, but on my NEC 2490, calibrated with NEC Spectraview, my blacks (actually, my entire gray scale) are neutral to my eye without any casts, and while I'm not sure it matters, I tend to run around 105-110 cd/m2 luminance. The only Eizo I've seen recently is the 1500$ 21" model and it had neutral, rich blacks as well. Haven't seen any of the CGW 24" series.

When viewed straight, the black does not necessarily show any color cast, especially not at the center of the screen. It mostly occurs after calibration and is induced by the calibration software, which replaces the deepest black by the *most neutral* black, if the setting allows. The orange/magenta glow is then most visible on the edges, where the screen is naturally always seen at an angle. Uncalibrated S-PVA-Panels show a deep and saturated black screen, whereas black screens of IPS-panels without viewing-angle-enhancements will always lighten up and show a distinct orange/magenta glow when viewed at an angle. See my post above.
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tho_mas
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« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2009, 08:33:45 PM »
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Quote from: Gigapixel
I'd suggest to use the Spyder3 device with ColorNavigator
agreed regarding Color Navigator as the software provides correction tables for the combination monitor/measurement device.
As to the Spyder 3 according to the manual of Color Navigator Spyder 3 is not supported to adjust the "gray balance" (only the so called "contrast" mode).
I am using the CG241W as well and calibrate with DTP94b and i1Display2. With both devices I get a neutral gray axis down to the deepest blacks (but I set the blackpoint to 0.3cd/m2).
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Gigapixel
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« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2009, 03:11:52 AM »
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Quote from: tho_mas
agreed regarding Color Navigator as the software provides correction tables for the combination monitor/measurement device.
As to the Spyder 3 according to the manual of Color Navigator Spyder 3 is not supported to adjust the "gray balance" (only the so called "contrast" mode).
I am using the CG241W as well and calibrate with DTP94b and i1Display2. With both devices I get a neutral gray axis down to the deepest blacks (but I set the blackpoint to 0.3cd/m2).

It is indeed possible to eliminate the magenta cast in the deepest black by setting a blackpoint of at least 0.2 cd/m^2. Instead of being magenta-colored, the left edge now appears just considerably lighter. With optimization for contrast, the black screen reaches  a minimum luminance of about 0.1 cd/m^2 and also doesn't show any lightened edges. The real problem seems to be the process of finding the *lowest neutral* black...
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tho_mas
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« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2009, 04:34:52 AM »
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Quote from: Gigapixel
It is indeed possible to eliminate the magenta cast in the deepest black by setting a blackpoint of at least 0.2 cd/m^2. Instead of being magenta-colored, the left edge now appears just considerably lighter.
in that case the uniformity of the panel is not good. My first copy of the CG241W showed a significant color shift as well, so I returned it. The panel of the copy I kept is uniform even in the generic preset and/or with calibration without boosting the blackpoint (but calibration for "gray balance" of course).
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With optimization for contrast, the black screen reaches  a minimum luminance of about 0.1 cd/m^2
consider this as an error of the measurement device; I seriously doubt that an VA panel has a blackpoint as low as that.

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Gigapixel
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« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2009, 12:45:10 PM »
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Quote from: tho_mas
in that case the uniformity of the panel is not good. My first copy of the CG241W showed a significant color shift as well, so I returned it. The panel of the copy I kept is uniform even in the generic preset and/or with calibration without boosting the blackpoint (but calibration for "gray balance" of course).

The lowest black is very uniform, the lightened/colored left edge occurs slightly above the lowest black level and seems to be independent of the measurement device (Eye-One Pro, Eye-One Display 2, DTP94b). A second CG242W behaves the same.

Quote from: tho_mas
consider this as an error of the measurement device; I seriously doubt that an VA panel has a blackpoint as low as that.

0,12 cd/m^2 for the lowest black to be exact. Confirmed with the three measurement devices mentioned above. The uniform and very deep black is about the only really noticeable advantage of the S-PVA panel. At least compared to my old NEC 1850DX with S-IPS panel, whose black appeared rather as dark orange when viewed at an angle. The NEC's colors were much more stable though...
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