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Author Topic: Leica S2 Images  (Read 31855 times)
TMARK
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« Reply #140 on: October 29, 2009, 12:33:47 PM »
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Quote from: ThierryH
Dear TMARK,

I wish to correct this because (partly) wrong:

Admitted, the Hy6/AFi/Rolleiflex Hy6 are currently under production stop, but the Sinar Hy6 65 or Sinar Hy6 eSprit 65 r are still sold actively as from the beginning.

Best regards,
Thierry

Thierry,

Wasn't/isn't one of the Hy6 65's an integral unit?  I seem to remember that from one of your posts near launch.  God knows that info wasn't from SinarBron USA.

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ThierryH
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« Reply #141 on: October 29, 2009, 01:35:17 PM »
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Quote from: TMARK
Thierry,

Wasn't/isn't one of the Hy6 65's an integral unit?  I seem to remember that from one of your posts near launch.  God knows that info wasn't from SinarBron USA.

Yes, TMARK, the "Sinar Hy6 65" is the integral unit, while the "Sinar Hy6-s65r" is the same but with the Sinarback eSprit 65 ("s" for eSprit and "r" for revolving).

Both still available, see here "Digital Configurations":

http://www.sinarcameras.com/file_uploads/b...009_noprice.pdf

Best regards,
Thierry
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billthompsonnyc
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« Reply #142 on: November 01, 2009, 10:08:12 AM »
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Many years ago while doing large pieced-together fine art panoramic murals (up to 15' high by 60' long) in Europe using 35mm I flew to Wetzlar to hand test and select 7 different lenses for my new R3.  I had started doing pieced together panoramics about 1979, in advance of David Hockney's work.  At the time I was unaware of all the panoramic work that had proceed mine; i.e. Muybridge's image of San Francisco after the earthquake. You can see some of the early work under Landscapes in my web site:  www.billthompson.com.  A few years ago I switched from the R3 to the Canon 1DS Mark 2 after testing them side by side and seeing the high end digital "blew away" film.  Then I switched to the Hasselblad H1 now with the Leaf 75S back.  Some of my current images have as many as 100 inner photographs.  The files can run to 6 or 7 gigabytes.  Of course all the assembling is now done mostly with PT Gui or Photomerge CS4 when there are no architectural renderings.  Before I would assemble the images interconnecting them with double sided archival adhesive and then mount them on canvas (so that I could roll and ship them) using PVC glue.  
      I have been following the "Photomerge" related image making of the last few years but until now have never posted a message.   I have views on this "movement"  but I mainly post today to report on recent lenses tests that involved the new S2.  Firstly I tested and then retested the new Zeiss digital lenses that are just now coming out.  They were lent to me by Zeiss.  My first tests showed that the lenses were not too good so I borrowed another set from Zeiss.  I tested the 50mm and the 85mm.  Neither one, after extensive testing (and using 2 different sets of brand new lenses) were as good as the top Canon lenses of the same mm.  In fact the Canon f1.2 was far superior to the Zeiss.  This was quite surprising.  I have always done rigorous lens testing and always at every f stop measuring center and corners.  I am obsessive about this as I always shoot to be produced as murals and try to be artist with very good craft.  I never wanted to use more than a medium format camera because of weight and speed of shooting.  As most of you know shooting panoramics and making them seamless requires working as fast as possible because of light changes.  Recently in NYC I tested the S2 with the 70mm and 180mm lenses against my Leaf Aptus 75S which has just about the same is sensor size- 33 vs 37.5.  The H1 lenses I used were the 80mm and the 150mm.  I could have used the 210mm but it is not as sharp a lens as the 150mm. I shot the same photos from the same distances with strobe at the same time and at the same fstop f9.5.  Though they are not perfect for comparison (especially the 150 vs 180mm) they are close enough.  I had really hoped that the Leaf & Hasselblad lenses would best the Leica as I didn't want to even consider switching systems (mainly because of price).  The results were almost the same which to me is a compliment to the S3 and the Leitz optics.  The camera is the most beautifully designed 35mm style camera that I have held since I used the R3.  The lenses are truly exceptional.

Bill Thompson
NYC
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rainer_v
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« Reply #143 on: November 01, 2009, 10:45:51 AM »
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i like your work bill, very nice and interesting stitches. great.
a bit surprised than about your web page which is i.m.o. far behind the style of your images, but maybe its us taste.

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rainer viertlböck
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Mr. Rib
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« Reply #144 on: November 01, 2009, 02:19:58 PM »
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I love the whole topic but this one is a killer

Quote from: pcunite
Oh please, the fact that Leica is making a medium format camera that is not a medium format camera that is now delayed for reasons unknown and Leaf has a back that is now selling for $10K and Canon will release a 1Ds Mark IV next year at 32mp, Hasselblad now has a full frame chip that is more full frame than their other full frame chip, I don't think your going to find any logic on forums anymore... the manufactures themselves are not logical.
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billthompsonnyc
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« Reply #145 on: November 01, 2009, 02:27:18 PM »
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Quote from: rainer_v
i like your work bill, very nice and interesting stitches. great.
a bit surprised than about your web page which is i.m.o. far behind the style of your images, but maybe its us taste.

The site was developed to show my golf mural for that market which like most "markets" right now is not much of one.  Always interested in site ideas.  Maybe let me know which sites you find good.
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billthompsonnyc
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« Reply #146 on: November 01, 2009, 02:30:40 PM »
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Quote from: rainer_v
i like your work bill, very nice and interesting stitches. great.
a bit surprised than about your web page which is i.m.o. far behind the style of your images, but maybe its us taste.

Rainer
Just looked at your site- nice work.  Obviously a problem with my site as it's not fine art and it's not commercial.
Bill
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Slough
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« Reply #147 on: November 01, 2009, 05:19:27 PM »
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Quote from: gwhitf
Go and look at that file from that PDN article at full rez. Then, go and look at yourself in the mirror, and ask yourself, "if I didn't know that that file was from a Leica camera, would it blow me away?" You guys are suffering from Red Dot Hope-itis, and it's going to cost you a lot of money. It's a fine file, but it's just another digital file. It's not like it's some revolution, in the way that Velvia was, in the old days. It's just another digital file.

After you do that, go back to that same mirror, and say this sentence to yourself, three times without stopping: "Leica: Twenty-seven thousand; 5DMarkII: Twenty-seven hundred".

And if that doesn't work, then make up a sentence about the usable ASA's of the two cameras, and that should do the trick.

If you're still feeling shitty about yourself after all that, then go get a haircut, and maybe a pair of new shoes. There's no need to drop $35k to feel good about yourself. Or, go buy ten 5dMarkII's, and give nine of them away to young, hungry high school students, and feel good that you contributed to them expressing themselves.

Do you feel better now? Sometimes it's best to get something off your chest.

By the way, I was not referring to my opinion, but a statement by Leica.
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BJNY
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« Reply #148 on: November 03, 2009, 07:37:51 AM »
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Quote from: gwhitf
Go and look at that file from that PDN article at full rez. Then, go and look at yourself in the mirror, and ask yourself, "if I didn't know that that file was from a Leica camera, would it blow me away?" You guys are suffering from Red Dot Hope-itis, and it's going to cost you a lot of money. It's a fine file, but it's just another digital file. It's not like it's some revolution, in the way that Velvia was, in the old days. It's just another digital file.

After you do that, go back to that same mirror, and say this sentence to yourself, three times without stopping: "Leica: Twenty-seven thousand; 5DMarkII: Twenty-seven hundred".

And if that doesn't work, then make up a sentence about the usable ASA's of the two cameras, and that should do the trick.

If you're still feeling shitty about yourself after all that, then go get a haircut, and maybe a pair of new shoes. There's no need to drop $35k to feel good about yourself. Or, go buy ten 5dMarkII's, and give nine of them away to young, hungry high school students, and feel good that you contributed to them expressing themselves.

   

gw,

YOU should star in a reality show.
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Guillermo
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« Reply #149 on: November 06, 2009, 04:41:59 AM »
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I have a theory that gwhitf and bcooter are actually the two grumpy old guys on The Muppet Show...
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yaya
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« Reply #150 on: November 06, 2009, 05:05:48 AM »
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Quote from: carstenw
I have a theory that gwhitf and bcooter are actually the two grumpy old guys on The Muppet Show...


I know and have met both and while they can be grumpy at times, they ain't old and are far from being muppets...
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ThierryH
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« Reply #151 on: November 06, 2009, 05:55:41 AM »
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Quote from: yaya
I know and have met both and while they can be grumpy at times, they ain't old and are far from being muppets...

I do second Yair in this: Far from being old and Muppet-like!

Thierry
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EricWHiss
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« Reply #152 on: November 06, 2009, 10:09:37 AM »
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And I'll add that while I've met neither gentleman, I accept both posters as being the best combination of humor, common sense and real information on the board.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2009, 10:10:00 AM by EricWHiss » Logged

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tho_mas
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« Reply #153 on: November 06, 2009, 10:40:05 AM »
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Quote from: EricWHiss
And I'll add that while I've met neither gentleman, I accept both posters as being the best combination of humor, common sense and real information on the board.
+1
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christian_raae
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« Reply #154 on: November 06, 2009, 06:01:33 PM »
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At times, I feel that this forum has stealth marketing written all over it.

And no, I will never buy a Canon camera again, because the IQ is not as good as my Hasselblad. It is as simple as that.


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Christian Raae
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bcooter
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« Reply #155 on: November 07, 2009, 01:03:46 AM »
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Quote from: christian_raae
At times, I feel that this forum has stealth marketing written all over it.

And no, I will never buy a Canon camera again, because the IQ is not as good as my Hasselblad. It is as simple as that.

Uh, stealth marketing?

I think on this forum section the marketing is far from stealth.   Hell fire fella, in the land of the bigger than smaller sensored section,  they're  dealer signatures, product's represented under signatures, e-mail direct links, lists of special offers, invitations to sales seminars, listing of price reduction on clearance items, shots of more brick walls and alley's than a season of "Law And Order".

The list goes on, so in the realm of almost  medium format, especially on this forum it's far from stealth.

In 35mm land  I don't think I've ever seen a representative of a camera company, or their dealers pushing a brand, a price, a sale, a seminar or a group hand holding get together. I don't think  they have to.

Now in regards to me, well, let's see, I got a discount on a medium format back I returned, Nikon through NPS loaned me some stuff for a gig to test with and that's it.  Everything else is paid for in cash . . . well Am-ex which is the same as cash. I have shot for a camera company, had my images run by various makers, but it was not a for profit situation and though flattering, is far from my intended market, because last time I checked, photographers don't pay me.

I know gwithf and the thought of him stealth marketing, or actually marketing anything but his photography would be like somebody telling me  Sarah Palin and Nancy Pelosi are involved in heavy romance.  It' would be interesting, but not pretty and obviously not natural.

BC


P.S.  Christian.  You mention that the image quality of your photos with a Canon is not as good as your Hasselblad.  I know you believe what you say, but I'm curious what is "not as good", cause that covers a lot of territory.

P.S.S.  I know Yair, like him, actually know that if he ran Leaf they probably would have bought Phase rather than the other way round, because Yair does something that no other camera rep I know does.  He goes country to country, works next to the photographers, big names, small names, big projects, small projects,  from start to finish and understands what is needed.  He's bias, probably bleeds Leaf green, but he's honest and will go nose to nose with anyone.  If Yair says he's gonna do it, set your watch because it will be done.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2009, 01:09:56 AM by bcooter » Logged
DanielStone
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« Reply #156 on: November 07, 2009, 02:38:45 AM »
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Quote from: bcooter
P.S.S.  I know Yair, like him, actually know that if he ran Leaf they probably would have bought Phase rather than the other way round, because Yair does something that no other camera rep I know does.  He goes country to country, works next to the photographers, big names, small names, big projects, small projects,  from start to finish and understands what is needed.  He's bias, probably bleeds Leaf green, but he's honest and will go nose to nose with anyone.  If Yair says he's gonna do it, set your watch because it will be done.


that's why I like Leaf, they seem more "true" to their customers than say phase or Sinar. not bashing P1 or Sinar, but when you have to "take it to your local P1 dealer" rather than getting on the phone with someone live, its a PITA if you ask me.

now I don't have the luxury of being able to own a digi back yet, of any flavor. hell, I don't even own a DSLR. I'm all film right now, with an RZ and a Hassy H2. they both work well, and I can shoot with a back on both of them, and that's what I intend to do some day soon. besides, Leaf makes an adapter plate to put H-mount backs on the RZ, so its even sweeter .


but yes, everything I've read about Yair, along with what the local dealers here in LA tell me confirms what you've just communicated.

thanks

that Aptus II-5 looks tempting though. and the price is really nice too

-Dan
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eronald
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« Reply #157 on: November 07, 2009, 01:19:36 PM »
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Quote from: christian_raae
At times, I feel that this forum has stealth marketing written all over it.

And no, I will never buy a Canon camera again, because the IQ is not as good as my Hasselblad. It is as simple as that.

Their stealth must be switched off when I'm looking - brass ball busting marketing is rather what I'd call it; just about the only forum where the reps sign their name and grin and bear the rotten eggs that get tossed at them..

and ...

Never say never again.
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christian_raae
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« Reply #158 on: November 08, 2009, 11:03:49 AM »
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I'm not saying MFDB companies are doing stealth marketing, that would be quite ludicrous, with the same reasons you gave.

But I see another tendency's, and that is for example people pushing Canon as a better choice then MFDB. Very often users with little registered info about them selves, showing up with tests or reviews, or bold statements about Canon being equal in IQ compared to MFDB.

It just seems weird to me that sooo many Canon users have the energy to argue on "large sensor" photography forums, implying that 35mm has met the IQ standards of MFDB.

Furthermore, think about it, in a marketing perspective, you hit quite a bit of the target consumers/potential consumers of MFDB here in this forum. Therefore I totally understand why Canon would be interested in penetrating a forum like this with "hard facts" showing that 5d mk II is pulling equal with for example H3D-39.

 
Now, after saying this, I will probably be attacked with comments saying I'm taking this too far, or being silly coming with these accusations.

As a marketer myself, I would probably consider a similar "attack" if I was in a major DSLR company.

I'm just facing these threads/posts with a little bit of scepticism, but maybe that's just me.

 

 
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Christian Raae
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eronald
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« Reply #159 on: November 08, 2009, 11:13:53 AM »
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I think everyone here has a Canon or Nikon, and because they like their tools most own some MF - and they are basically complaining that the MF rig doesn't really pull its weight compared with the "cheap" C or N gear. I've been there. The N just takes images in every light, focused perfectly.

I have a feeling the guys posting here with strange names who used to post on RG with different names  can take better pictures than me with any type of gear; I used to think the gear was what gave them the advantage - I've changed opinion since, and started going to drawing classes and museums again to learn how to see.

Edmund


Quote from: christian_raae
I'm not saying MFDB companies are doing stealth marketing, that would be quite ludicrous, with the same reasons you gave.

But I see another tendency's, and that is for example people pushing Canon as a better choice then MFDB. Very often users with little registered info about them selves, showing up with tests or reviews, or bold statements about Canon being equal in IQ compared to MFDB.

It just seems weird to me that sooo many Canon users have the energy to argue on "large sensor" photography forums, implying that 35mm has met the IQ standards of MFDB.

Furthermore, think about it, in a marketing perspective, you hit quite a bit of the target consumers/potential consumers of MFDB here in this forum. Therefore I totally understand why Canon would be interested in penetrating a forum like this with "hard facts" showing that 5d mk II is pulling equal with for example H3D-39.

 
Now, after saying this, I will probably be attacked with comments saying I'm taking this too far, or being silly coming with these accusations.

As a marketer myself, I would probably consider a similar "attack" if I was in a major DSLR company.

I'm just facing these threads/posts with a little bit of scepticism, but maybe that's just me.
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Edmund Ronald, Ph.D. 
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