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Author Topic: New CO 5 release! Lots of attractive innovations  (Read 14483 times)
bcooter
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« Reply #40 on: October 31, 2009, 03:49:03 PM »
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Quote from: dougpetersonci
I'm glad you had zero problems with LR but that's not representative of the entire user-base of LightRoom. LightRoom has had many bugs ..............................


(insert smiley face).

I ain't trying to argue with you phase boys, I just think it would be cool to say yea, sorry version 5 has some boners in it, rather than say oh yea, you should see how bad the other guys are.

I can't begin to understand how hard it is to write software, make a digital camera.

I can't begin to fathom the number of combinations of operating systems, computers, connections, drives, associated software.

Still I think it would be a positive step if an end user (that's what photographers are now . . . right . . . end users) went to work knowing what they use is stable and secure out of the box before the amex statement hits their desk.

Maybe that's not how it works anymore.


BC
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« Reply #41 on: October 31, 2009, 04:28:13 PM »
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Quote from: bcooter
Still I think it would be a positive step if an end user (that's what photographers are now . . . right . . . end users) went to work knowing what they use is stable and secure out of the box before the amex statement hits their desk.

Couldn't agree more. That's why we as a company (Capture Integration is a dealer of Phase One software) do so much hands-on testing on our own and encourage anyone to call us to ask us if they should upgrade/update/switch/install. If you buy your software through us you can be confident in this regard.

Doug Peterson
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« Reply #42 on: October 31, 2009, 05:50:33 PM »
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Quote from: John-S
The very last item, the noise reduction bug seems bad to me.
solved in V5.0

Quote
- Copy and apply adjustments is slow and tedious when only one or a few adjustments to copy are desired.
Requires 2 clicks to check and uncheck EACH undesired adjustment in the clipboard. Just make it work like Lightroom, PLEASE.
MUCH improved in V5.0. More like in V3, but better and faster

Quote
Allow a variant AND multiple other images selected so that the adjustments made to the primary variant are applied in real time to the rest.
I don't use the compariant variant and the "edit primary" option actually, so I don't know exactly how it works.
But in V5.0 you have a certain amount of captures selected (either way variant or not), edit the primary file, then hold shift and click on "local copy/apply".
The adjustments of the primary capture are applied to all selected files immediately. It's fast!

Quote
Automatic Chromatic aberration correction is brilliant, BUT allow the “automatic” part to be applied to many images in a batch method, not just the resulting correction itself, for example a 17mm lens frame needs different correction from what might be the next frame at 24mm. As of now, every frame with different focal length has to be manually done to apply "automatic" CA corrections. (this is a fundamental issue with Capture One and the developers, they don't seem to understand large volume workflow at all)
true. Workaround: select the brwoser by "focal length" and copy/apply the respective adjustments.
Hmh.. cumbersome, but still better than editing every single capture.

Quote
- I want a centralized section for seeing, selecting, creating Presets for ALL tools, not selecting a preset for one tool by clicking a tiny triangle only at that tool. This is separate from styles.
I honestly didn't get that... that is what styles is for.

Quote
Allow (on Mac) command + or - and command/option 0 for image sizing. Every image app imaginable does this.
yes, please, finally!!

Quote
Distortion tool ONLY corrects barrel distortion. It should have both + and - adjustment to correct pincushion as well.
no. Set "lens" from "generic" to "generic pincusion" and you get what you are looking for. Since 4.5 or so...

Quote
- When in Crop, if a crop edge is at the edge of a tool panel, the tool panel gets pulled and not the crop edge. Have the crop take precedent!
solved in V5.0 as you can set a margin either for the regular view or the new "proof margin" view.
The "proof margin" allows you - finally - to set a neutral frame around the preview.

Quote
MAJOR bug in noise reduction for high ISO images (Canon files are what I shoot). Example, click on a high ISO image (6400 ISO image used for this example, shows it very well) for the first time, with an already created preset of 10, 10 noise reduction (my own preference). Image looks mushy. Then zero out all noise reduction, and reapply 10, 10 noise reduction, image looks completely different!
solved in V5.0
« Last Edit: October 31, 2009, 05:51:16 PM by tho_mas » Logged
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« Reply #43 on: October 31, 2009, 05:54:53 PM »
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Quote from: John-S
- Copy and apply adjustments is slow and tedious when only one or a few adjustments to copy are desired. Requires 2 clicks to check and uncheck EACH undesired adjustment in the clipboard. Just make it work like Lightroom, PLEASE.

In version 5 there is a "local" copy and apply which lets you do this in one click.



Quote from: John-S
- Allow a variant AND multiple other images selected so that the adjustments made to the primary variant are applied in real time to the rest. Again like Lightroom. There is a tool bar button “1” in a rectangle which does nothing clicked or not.

That would be nice. However, the new local copy-and-apply option in C15 accomplishes much of the same goal. It's not real time, but it is very fast and easy.



Quote from: John-S
- Automatic Chromatic aberration correction is brilliant, BUT allow the “automatic” part to be applied to many images in a batch method, not just the resulting correction itself, a 17mm lens frame needs different correction from the next frame at 24mm.

Yes, that would be nice. The CA correction routine is so great and fast/easy that it begs for a easier way to apply it to all incoming images.



Quote from: John-S
- The beta of v5.0 did not allow Target Levels for each R G B channel, the target levels are very necessary.

I need to look into that as I don't know if that is coming back or not (it's not there in v5.0). As a side note here I'd say that only 5% of the users that I work with have ever used individual RGB target levels.



Quote from: John-S
- There is a white peppering in some high ISO DSLR images. Need a slider to lessen or eliminate that look.

On the other hand there is significantly more detail in high ISO dSLR shots than in ACR (including the current beta of LR3) or Aperture and the look of the noise is more like a film grain than digital processing artifacts. I know the team in DK obsesses (e.g. working on holidays and in spare time) to improve the algorithms for noise vs. detail.

I have on my list of to-dos to check whether the new dedicated slider for long exposure will help high-ISO dSLR shots since that slider targets the sort of speckling you describe (which happens as well in long exposures). If anyone has already tested this I'd be curious for you to share.

Quote from: John-S
- I want a centralized section for seeing, selecting, creating Presets for ALL tools, not selecting a preset for one tool by clicking a tiny triangle only at that tool. This is separate from styles.

I'm very confused by this. How is this different than styles? Could you describe the UI you're imagining? I think styles ROCK.



Quote from: John-S
- Allow (on Mac) command + or - and command/option 0 for image sizing. Every image app imaginable does this.

YES! I hope they do add Command+ and Command- for zoom in and out if only because I get a lot of requests for that. Personally I very rarely find myself at an arbitrary zoom level but almost always using the hand tool double-click shortcut to zoom in to 100% or zoom-to-fit, so personally I don't see the big deal, but the users have clearly indicated they want this to be added, and the users are the ones who pay the bills!

Note that the standards Command-0 (zoom to fit) and Command-Option-0 (zoom to 100%) DO in fact work and have worked since v4.

Quote from: John-S
- Have Batch Rename be more sophisticated. Allow the app to figure out the date of a file so a folder of images shot on different days all get named to what is one very good standard YYYYMMDD_text_(4 digit filenumber).extension and not the same date.

If you want such fine-grain control of file names (which I agree is a good workflow - for some specific styles of shooting) you'll always be better off with a dedicated program like Better File Renamer or Bridge for your importing/renaming. If you run Better File Renamer while Capture One is open then C1 will see that you're renaming them and maintain their image settings.

I do agree (as I'm sure the developers in DK do) that a few more options in Batch Renamer would be nice; when it was first put into version 4 a lot of users requested a continuous counter and it was added in around version 4.7, so they do listen to such requests. But I just wanted to note that it's not their goal to make C1 a does-everything program (so that they can continue to focus their resources on things such as the quality of the conversion) and so many sincerely good ideas (e.g. printing from within the program) will not come to fruition.

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« Reply #44 on: October 31, 2009, 05:55:17 PM »
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Quote from: John-S
- On a 13” macbook screen, the sorting dropdown that is above the vertical thumbnails does not show unless the thumbnails are widened to two across or more. That causes the main image window to be too tiny. Yes, I know sorting is in the main top menu under View, but I rarely use top menus in any app. Sorting dropdown with the thumbnails is more needed than the thumbnail sizing tool. Allow some option in what to see. You get this little option if thumbnails panel is too narrow, do the same for sorting:
[attachment=17615:Picture_3.png]

Sounds like you need to add the sorting methods of your choice to keyboard shortcuts so you can access them quickly. Otherwise there will of course be some user interface options that can't be fit onto a 13" screen. Or, as you say you can use the drop down menu. Allowing full customization of which options you see there would be nice, but I don't know that I'd personally want that at the top of the to-do list taking away from development time on other items.

Quote from: John-S
Moronic or lazy coding (these make me crazy):
- Customize -> Show -> Icon & Text does nothing, no text for icons in top tool bar. Version 3 was the last time this worked!

Yes, I wish they would either remove the option, or make it work. It's small but it's annoying.


Quote from: John-S
- Distortion tool ONLY corrects barrel distortion. It should have both + and - adjustment to correct pincushion as well.

Change to "pincushion distortion" in the menu. Voila. Excellent opportunity to point out just how awesome it is to be able to be able to correct for distortion (in batches none-the-less) at this stage in your workflow.

In addition correction of both barrel and pincushion distortion is fine-tuned to each specific lens which C1 supports directly (e.g. Phase One, Hasselblad H series, Hasselblad Zeiss, Contax).


Quote from: John-S
- Users should not have to delete almost everything related to a previous version to have a new version run smoothly. Almost all other apps allow overwriting the app or allow an app to run alongside the previous version.

So true! To be fair, MOST users can do the upgrade without anything more than drag and drop, but you're right that the only way to be 100% sure that everything will be hunky dorey is to follow our uninstall instructions.


Quote from: John-S
- When in Crop, if a crop edge is at the edge of a tool panel, the tool panel gets pulled and not the crop edge. Have the crop take precedent! Far too many times, I miss the crop edge by a fraction of an inch and it causes the crop to be cancelled or makes a near 1 pixel box crop. Work on this, please. Again look to Lightroom.

Done in v5. Increase the margin under preferences and every image will always end slightly before the tool panel / browser correcting this (very annoying) issue. There is also a toggle above and to the left of the image for an additional "proof margin" for the separate purpose of "previewing" the image in a more neutral environment - you can add a keyboard shortcut for this for fast access. These sorts of things will be in Capture Integration's online training in a few weeks.


Quote from: John-S
- Please allow clicking on a tool title bar to expand or contract, not some tiny little triangle

Respectfully disagree. As a UI element the tool title bar is too large to trigger an expansion/contract and will lead to many users accidentally contracting tools.

I think when you delve into Capture One 5 you will see that many many of the requests from users were implemented including many asked for on this board (often directed at myself or another member of Capture Integration). I personally spent many hours emailing back and forth on feature requests based on the input of our customers and of this and other online forums and the direct result of this can be seen in Capture One 5.

The point being that we encourage you to continue to make your requests! They ARE listened to and taken very seriously.

Doug Peterson
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« Last Edit: October 31, 2009, 05:57:43 PM by dougpetersonci » Logged

DOUG PETERSON (dep@digitaltransitions.com), Digital Transitions
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« Reply #45 on: October 31, 2009, 06:02:22 PM »
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Quote from: dougpetersonci
Personally I very rarely find myself at an arbitrary zoom level but almost always using the hand tool double-click shortcut to zoom in to 100% or zoom-to-fit, so personally I don't see the big deal, but the users have clearly indicated they want this to be added, and the users are the ones who pay the bills!
Doug... think about print size (~32%). Or 50% for sharpening. Or 25% for the smallest highrez preview in C1 (even with the new size-slider for the previews in the preferences).
100% is for fetishists and to double check NR and sharpening, and of course for focus checking, but for the actual image (printed) 100% is not so important. Especially the commands for 200% and 400% are strange... when on the other hand +/- is missing.
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« Reply #46 on: October 31, 2009, 06:08:26 PM »
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Quote from: John-S
Glad to see a few things are better in V5.0.
it's somehow "V4 meets V3" on an improved level. Not in every detail but pretty much.

Quote
When enough people say it's stable, I'll venture.
it's too early to say so. I had no crash with the final release. But I didn't process huge amounts of files and as to tethering I just checked if it actually works. I tether rarely and if so I use my Macbook with V3.7.9 or 4.8.3.
Too, there are some little bugs regarding the function of certain tools but nothing - by now - crashed C1.
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« Reply #47 on: October 31, 2009, 06:20:36 PM »
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Quote from: John-S
Here's what bugs me. Phase and Phase dealers constantly say that many DSLR users buy CO. So make the lens corrections more useful for them. I don't need specific lens presets, but I don't want to here how great it works with hassey lenses, phase lenses, blah, blah.

...The lens corrections for dSLRs are very good. Am I missing something or is C1 the only one out of C1/LR/Aperture which offers any form of lens correction built-in? I'm sure it can be improved (everything can be) and I know it's on the list in DK for things they'd like to do.

Quote from: John-S
Again, this app is for us. We shoot. We process files. It's not for the developers or the dealers.

Have I not personally reiterated over and over again that we as a dealer want your feedback on how to improve Capture One? Our customers are our only concern - we don't care what the developers think except so far as to understand where they are coming from in order to help advocate our customer's desires. Are there not many good example of such feedback on v4 leading directly to changes in v4 and now in a large number of changes made for v5? Maybe I am misreading it (since the tenor written word can often come off different than was intended) but I sense hostility here that confuses me and I don't think is constructive to our shared desire to improve C1.

Doug Peterson
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« Last Edit: October 31, 2009, 06:30:44 PM by dougpetersonci » Logged

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« Reply #48 on: October 31, 2009, 06:23:35 PM »
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Quote from: tho_mas
Doug... think about print size (~32%). Or 50% for sharpening. Or 25% for the smallest highrez preview in C1 (even with the new size-slider for the previews in the preferences).
100% is for fetishists and to double check NR and sharpening, and of course for focus checking, but for the actual image (printed) 100% is not so important. Especially the commands for 200% and 400% are strange... when on the other hand +/- is missing.

Thanks for the extra feedback here tho_mas. That helps clarify the issue. I already agreed that the universal shortcuts for zoom-in and zoom-out should be adhered to in C1, but with the additional clarification I can be a better advocate for that.

Doug Peterson
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« Reply #49 on: October 31, 2009, 06:31:36 PM »
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Quote from: dougpetersonci
Thanks for the extra feedback here tho_mas. That helps clarify the issue. I already agreed that the universal shortcuts for zoom-in and zoom-out should be adhered to in C1, but with the additional clarification I can be a better advocate for that.
basically it reduces mouse-clicks!
Now it's: move the mouse to the image... press Z (zoom) ... click/click/click (=50%)... check image... press ALT... click/click/click (set back to "to fit")... move mosue back to the tools.
In Photoshop the F-keys F1-F4 ar for viewing only on my keyboard. Translated to C1 it would be:
don't move mouse, just press F2/F2/F2 ... check image ... F1/F1/F1... go ahead.
I actually do everything on the right side with the mosue and everything else with the keyboard... comes from Avid Editing back in the days. It's easy and fast... as long as you get the options to customize the keyboard.

BTW: on Windows the shortcuts are there!

However regarding the reduction of mouse clicks V5.0 is a big step forward.
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« Reply #50 on: October 31, 2009, 07:06:10 PM »
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Hey Guys,

Thought I'd remind you about my little uninstall app for CaptureOne that I've updated for Version 5 as well. It deletes

~/Library/Preferences/com.phaseone.captureone.plist ,

~/Pictures/Capture One Library/Capture One.col45 and col.50,

~/Library/Application Support/Capture One , and

Applications/Capture One.app.

Its also handy for just refreshing the install when/if things get buggy. Or for testing Vers5 but using Vers4.8.x for actual shoots.

Its available from

www.rapdigital.net/apps.html



Cheers
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« Reply #51 on: November 01, 2009, 12:22:29 AM »
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Quote from: dougpetersonci
Couldn't agree more. That's why we as a company (Capture Integration is a dealer of Phase One software) do so much hands-on testing on our own and encourage anyone to call us to ask us if they should upgrade/update/switch/install. If you buy your software through us you can be confident in this regard.

Doug Peterson
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One thing for sure, nobody beat the american's marketing skills.
 
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« Reply #52 on: November 01, 2009, 07:13:18 PM »
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Quote from: dougpetersonci
I'm glad you had zero problems with LR but that's not representative of the entire user-base of LightRoom. LightRoom has had many bugs (especially in v1.0 and early in v2 - as you would expect); there was even a pretty bad bug in a release which had to be rolled back and reissued. Don't get me wrong, overall it's been very stable, but your lack of problems doesn't mean that there weren't plenty of them. As one very small example many medium format DNG files were rendered with hot-pink highlights for several version in a row during the v1 days..

That said Adobe is by far the best company I've experienced when it comes to minimal numbers of bugs. I can count on one hand the number of times Photoshop has crashed on me this year. However, Apple, Microsoft and everyone else in the software world regularly releases (paid and often very expensive) software packages with glaring omissions and very bad bugs.



I think there is a broad agreement that a company like Adobe is a company that ratifies their products before they go to the next version. I would think that is key for success in any customer relationship. But sadly that’s not the way of thinking at the Phase One HQ, as they seem to be more interested in credit-card magic than fulfilling their promise of a finished solid product.

Esben


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« Reply #53 on: November 01, 2009, 07:17:43 PM »
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as phase one site, c1 5.0 supports leaf aptusII backs.


but not supports older APTUS75, 65, 54, 22? valeo22,17 Huh

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chiek imaging, in Seoul, SOUTH-KOREA.
Sinar P2, Hasselblad H1+CF-39MS and a7/R, 5dmk2 systems
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but interested in Landscapes and Portraits, however I've shot portraits sometimes.
my hobby is Designing camera...
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« Reply #54 on: November 02, 2009, 10:37:43 AM »
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This is for Doug at CI.  IF you can pass this along to someone at Phase I would be very appreciative.  I've opened support cases in the past for these issues but still no change.


There are some really annoying remaining UI issues that have persisted all through V4 that haven't been touched on.

- The selected frames in the browser have such a thin white frame, V3 was great with the big obvious selection border that matched the user highlighted color in the OS preferences.  Please fix this, it is so hard to see that 1 pixel frame.  It makes it really diffucult to process large jpbs.

-  When going through folders to tag, if i rate/color tag photos and then sort the folder by rating, and then go to another folder and return to the folder that i sorted by rating, it defaults to sorting by name! so i have to sort it by rating again, this is really tedious - again it wasn't like that in V3

- Please have 0 clear all ratings/color tags not just the number rating.  It is very fast to just hit 0 to clear all tagging as it was in three.

I see alot of major problems were addressed in V5, basically a really nice V4.9
Hopefully there are no major bugs, so far I've had no catastrophic issues.  
All in all, things are looking much better for Capture One users, something that couldn't be said while we had to use V4.
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« Reply #55 on: November 02, 2009, 03:18:39 PM »
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Quote from: tho_mas
Quote from: John-S
Allow a variant AND multiple other images selected so that the adjustments made to the primary variant are applied in real time to the rest.
I don't use the compariant variant and the "edit primary" option actually, so I don't know exactly how it works.
But in V5.0 you have a certain amount of captures selected (either way variant or not), edit the primary file, then hold shift and click on "local copy/apply".
The adjustments of the primary capture are applied to all selected files immediately. It's fast!
found this in the manual:

Quote
How can I edit more image files at once?
Capture One now allows you to edit all selected without usage of Shift.
The “Edit Primary Variant Only Function”, now makes it possible for you
to select more than one image and only work on the selected variant –
the one with the white frame.
If the button is NOT activated you will automatically adjust all selected,
when using the “A” function, Import, Rotate, Move-to, reset Adjustments,
Trash, Rating, Process.

so editing multiple images at the same time only applies to the "Auto" function... no wonder I've never figured out how it works.

But the new local copy/apply is really very strong - a lot of options behind this inconspicuous tool!
For instance:
- as already mentioned: select a number of images, edit the primary image, press shift and click on the local copy/apply icon - the local settings are applied to all selceted images.
- instead of pressing shift and clicking on the icon just press cmd+shift+D - the local settings are applied (duplicated) to all seleceted images.
both applies to all adjusments within one tool

another interessting function here:
- edit the image, press ALT and click on the "reset" icon - the adjustments will not reset, just the preview switches back to the state prior to the adjustments. So it works as preview adjustments on/off.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2009, 03:36:20 PM by tho_mas » Logged
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« Reply #56 on: November 02, 2009, 03:22:44 PM »
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Quote from: emcphoto
When going through folders to tag, if i rate/color tag photos and then sort the folder by rating, and then go to another folder and return to the folder that i sorted by rating, it defaults to sorting by name!
on my machine there is no switch to "name" as default. I re-open sessions with the setting that were active when I closed the session. Even after restart of C1 the settings are stored, not just when swichting session while C1 is running.
So maybe a problem on your machine.

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« Reply #57 on: November 02, 2009, 03:36:23 PM »
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Quote from: tho_mas
on my machine there is no switch to "name" as default. I re-open sessions with the setting that were active when I closed the session. Even after restart of C1 the settings are stored, not just when swichting session while C1 is running.
So maybe a problem on your machine.


Are you sure?  Color tag a bunch of images in a folder, sort by colortag then go to another folder and return to it.  On every mac I've used on set on any V4 or V5 C1Pro it has reverted back to sorting by name.  I just bought a new mac pro and set up V5 - it still happens.  Can anyone else confirm it?  Thanks.
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« Reply #58 on: November 02, 2009, 03:43:09 PM »
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Quote from: emcphoto
Are you sure?  Color tag a bunch of images in a folder, sort by colortag then go to another folder and return to it.
yes, that's how I am working. I don't like the stars rating, I only use 1-3 color tags. The sessions always open in the last saved state... either way name or color tag. Even if I open a session sorted by color tag then switch to sort by name and then switch to a session that was stored as sorted by color tag it will open sorted by color tag.
I'm not quite sure about my Macbook but 100% about my Mac pro.

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« Reply #59 on: November 02, 2009, 03:51:03 PM »
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Quote from: emcphoto
I just bought a new mac pro and set up V5 - it still happens.
did you create new sessions or did you open old V4-sessions?
Are the folders set as "favorite" folders?

edit: forget it... I've just opened old V4 sessions. Even those re-open correct in V5 once sorted in V5.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2009, 03:55:27 PM by tho_mas » Logged
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