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Author Topic: What about Hasselblad  (Read 30360 times)
stevesanacore
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« on: November 02, 2009, 07:22:03 AM »
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I am meeting a lot of photographers that use the Hasselblad H3d systems and are very happy with them but on this forum all I seem to see is Phase One users. Hasselblad has some very attractive packages on the H3D 39 and the new H4D 60 and I was wondering what are peoples experiences with them compared with Phase One? My biggest issue with Phase is the Mamiya system which I used to use in the film days and hated it. If I invest in MF then I need a totally integrated system for most work.

So what's the scoop on Hasselblad? Thanks.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2009, 07:22:57 AM by stevesanacore » Logged

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christian_raae
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« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2009, 07:56:39 AM »
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Quote from: stevesanacore
I am meeting a lot of photographers that use the Hasselblad H3d systems and are very happy with them but on this forum all I seem to see is Phase One users. Hasselblad has some very attractive packages on the H3D 39 and the new H4D 60 and I was wondering what are peoples experiences with them compared with Phase One? My biggest issue with Phase is the Mamiya system which I used to use in the film days and hated it. If I invest in MF then I need a totally integrated system for most work.

So what's the scoop on Hasselblad? Thanks.

Try both of the systems out if you have the opportunity. I ended up with H3d, I even tried Leica S2 not to long ago. In a long term I figured that Hasselblad is a stayer in the marked as well.
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michele
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« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2009, 08:10:34 AM »
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Well, what do you need a mfdb for? If you need it for copy work perhaps multishot capability is very important and you have to chose hasselblad or sinar. If you are a long exposure photographer well, you need phaseone. If you needed 60 megapixels 3 months ago, you needed phaseone. These are just exemples. What do you mislike about mamiya? What do you need in a camera? Perhaps all the users in this forum are happy with phaseone, i'm one of the happy part. A friend of mine has the hasselblad system. The new small sensor format lenses are superb, fast, sharp and very clean. He has the multishot model. He can't use it because phocus crashes his computer... We tried 3 differents macs and all the times CRASH. Now, perhaps flexcolor is better, we didn't try it. But he's keep trying and looking for solutions. I'm shooting, and without problems. He has the 28mm and the 35-90mm. He needs the 210mm but he just bought a new macbook thet doesn't work properly with phocus. I bought used on ebay a 210 and a 50 shift, for less then 1000 euro. They simply work great. For my experience, phaseone is a very good product and very simple to use, that's why i'm happy with it. I also bought it as an ex-demo, so it was "cheap".
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2009, 08:32:14 AM »
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Quote from: stevesanacore
If I invest in MF then I need a totally integrated system for most work.

Hasselblad makes a good product which, like any other product, has both positives and negatives. Phase One makes a strong product as well which also has positives and negatives. I think you'd be doing yourself a disservice if you don't spend at least a few hours with each system actually in your hands, taking pictures, and taking those pictures all the way through your workflow.

Why do you think you need a totally integrated system? There are some real advantageous and some marketing-only advantageous as well as some significant disadvantages.

I'd encourage you to get your hands on the newer Mamiya/Phase body and lens options since they are generations ahead of the Mamiya bodies/lenses you would have tried back in the days of yore.

I'd also point out that you can use a Phase back on an H2 body. In fact this combination is still the most popular in the Florida rental market (since up until now Phase has not had a leaf-shutter lens option and high-speed flash sync is a requirement in the sunny Florida outdoor photography market).

Full disclosure - see my signature - I work for a dealer that works with Phase One (along with Canon, Leaf, Leica, Eizo etc). But I think it's perfectly fair of me to encourage you to do your OWN hands on testing and not rely too much on what you read marketing wise about "integration" etc.

Doug Peterson
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stevesanacore
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« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2009, 08:57:16 AM »
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I'm sure I will try them both before I commit. Would love to know the up and down sides to each system. Workflow, live view, tethering etc.

I shoot only on location and need to usually work fast. A tech camera would be an option for very little percentage of work. Fast and simple setup is my main priority.

Thanks for any input as I have not decided MF is for me yet. Still investigating if I can make it work for me.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2009, 09:00:32 AM by stevesanacore » Logged

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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2009, 08:58:17 AM »
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According to this poll, 42% of this forum uses Phase One: http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=20962

Actually, all the brands are quite well represented but the Phase guys make most noise comparing the 1% improvement of the AFD XIV body over the AFD XIII as Phase brings out a new camera body every two weeks
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« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2009, 09:28:48 AM »
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From a distance, it appears that Hasselblad is owned more by people shooting landscapes or the like. Maybe, in that low pressure scenario, HocusPhocus would be just fine. But it always seems that, when there's money on the table, you see people using Phase and 3.79, or Leaf backs. I think people are forcibly being dragged into using 4.83 to tether, due to Phase locking out 3.79 on the newer backs, and I guess, someday, 4.83 will be regarded as stable as 3.79. But trust me, when the light is fading, and the AD has that concerned look on his face, the very last words you want to hear are: "Uh, we need to restart CaptureOne; it just crashed". DPP/EOS Utility, you never hear those words, and very rarely with CaptureOne 3.79 either.

But I will give you that: you rarely hear of anyone using a Hasselblad back. In person, or in YouTube videos, or the like. It's strange. You see the bodies everywhere, but always with Leaf or Phase backs on them. I spoke with a NYC beauty retoucher at a party recently, and he said most of his files are from Leaf backs, then Phase second, then Canon third. He didn't even mention Hasselblad.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2009, 09:31:45 AM by gwhitf » Logged
Mr. Rib
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« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2009, 09:44:58 AM »
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I have to disagree, AFDIII is at least 7.8% better than mine AFDII

Indeed, number of Mamiya 645AFD cameras may be mind-boggling... DM56, DM33, DM28, DM22, AFD I, II, III, 645DF.. what the hell..
As for the nomenclature, they should keep it at AFD I/II/III  and 645DF as it introduces significant improvements.


Quote from: foto-z
According to this poll, 42% of this forum uses Phase One: http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=20962

Actually, all the brands are quite well represented but the Phase guys make most noise comparing the 1% improvement of the AFD XIV body over the AFD XIII as Phase brings out a new camera body every two weeks
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UlfKrentz
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« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2009, 10:16:03 AM »
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Quote from: gwhitf
From a distance, it appears that Hasselblad is owned more by people shooting landscapes or the like. Maybe, in that low pressure scenario, HocusPhocus would be just fine. But it always seems that, when there's money on the table, you see people using Phase and 3.79, or Leaf backs. I think people are forcibly being dragged into using 4.83 to tether, due to Phase locking out 3.79 on the newer backs, and I guess, someday, 4.83 will be regarded as stable as 3.79. But trust me, when the light is fading, and the AD has that concerned look on his face, the very last words you want to hear are: "Uh, we need to restart CaptureOne; it just crashed". DPP/EOS Utility, you never hear those words, and very rarely with CaptureOne 3.79 either.

But I will give you that: you rarely hear of anyone using a Hasselblad back. In person, or in YouTube videos, or the like. It's strange. You see the bodies everywhere, but always with Leaf or Phase backs on them. I spoke with a NYC beauty retoucher at a party recently, and he said most of his files are from Leaf backs, then Phase second, then Canon third. He didn't even mention Hasselblad.


I agree and would recommend to have a serious look at the combination of H Camera with Leaf DB. We are shooting beauty and fashion, doing our own post processing and love the files we get from Leaf Capture. We also prefer the colors of the Dalsa chip over the Kodak Colors (funny enough that Leaf belonged to Kodak, but never used the Kodak sensors). For me lot of "Integration" of the Hasselblad H Series seems to correct their own faults of lenses and backs.

Cheers

Ulf
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stevesanacore
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« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2009, 11:24:51 AM »
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Quote from: gwhitf
From a distance, it appears that Hasselblad is owned more by people shooting landscapes or the like. Maybe, in that low pressure scenario, HocusPhocus would be just fine. But it always seems that, when there's money on the table, you see people using Phase and 3.79, or Leaf backs. I think people are forcibly being dragged into using 4.83 to tether, due to Phase locking out 3.79 on the newer backs, and I guess, someday, 4.83 will be regarded as stable as 3.79. But trust me, when the light is fading, and the AD has that concerned look on his face, the very last words you want to hear are: "Uh, we need to restart CaptureOne; it just crashed". DPP/EOS Utility, you never hear those words, and very rarely with CaptureOne 3.79 either.

But I will give you that: you rarely hear of anyone using a Hasselblad back. In person, or in YouTube videos, or the like. It's strange. You see the bodies everywhere, but always with Leaf or Phase backs on them. I spoke with a NYC beauty retoucher at a party recently, and he said most of his files are from Leaf backs, then Phase second, then Canon third. He didn't even mention Hasselblad.


Well yes, it's interesting that so few people on here use Hasselblad backs. But there must be quite a few out there and would love to hear from users. Wish I could have gone to Photo+ last month and talk to the reps directly from all these companies.

The one thing I could never tolerate is software crashing during a shoot. Even though most clients understand software issues, it's a very unpleasant event for me to say the least. I would hope to also avoid Capture One or Phocus etc. All I need is a simple capture utility that will send the photo to Lightroom as I do with my Canons now.

I actually started my digital career with Leaf using their 4x5" scanner. They were in a league by themselves when it came to their scanning software and hardware. But these days, it's hard to buy into a system that looks like a stepchild to Phase One's own P+ backs.

Not looking to start a war between backs, just looking to get objective info on which is the best for me. Don't need long exposure more than 30 seconds, flash sync above 250th, or more than 1 frame a second. Thanks!



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« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2009, 11:36:05 AM »
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Quote from: stevesanacore
But these days, it's hard to buy into a system that looks like a stepchild to Phase One's own P+ backs.

Only the owners of pre-Leaf Imaging backs are treated as stepchildren, but (we, in our rooms under the stairs, hope) those policies may be easing.
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Nick-T
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« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2009, 01:34:55 PM »
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Always nice to see the guys from Capture Integration helping out in a Hasselblad Thread

These forums tend to be very Phase biased so you might be forgiven for thinking that Hasselblad does not sell any cameras.. I could point you at a forum where it appears that Sinar completely dominates the market if you like

FYI I have been shooting with the latest beta of Phocus 2 for the last week and have yet to see a crash.
Oh and get someone to show you lens corrections on the 28mm Phase's corrections are shall we say, "different".
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« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2009, 01:35:03 PM »
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Quote from: asf
Only the owners of pre-Leaf Imaging backs are treated as stepchildren, but (we, in our rooms under the stairs, hope) those policies may be easing.

I have been using the Hasselblad H3d-50 for over a month now.  Moved into it after leaving the Leica DMR.  I love it.  And I shoot mostly fashion with some landscapes.  Fashion work is typically done in a studio but not always.  The files from the Hasselblad, even with my limited experience working with it, are fantastic.  I can print large 40" x 60" store displays that essentially blow the Leica DMR away.  And I am not just talking pixels here.  I am talking skin tones and color fidelity.  It is harder to use than the Leica but having the use of the autofocus, which I never wanted for fashion, has turned out to be a big plus.  I have coded the camera to operate on manual focus unless I push the "user" button and then it will quickly autofocus.  Just my way of double checking.  

I could not be happier and I, for one, like the proprietary Phocus program.  It makes total short term and long term sense to me that the people best equipped to design software for Hasselblad is Hasselblad.  Time will tell but, to date, I have no issues what-so-ever and am in total love with the files it produces.
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John.Williams
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« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2009, 02:14:56 PM »
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Quote from: michele
(snip) We tried 3 differents macs and all the times CRASH. Now, perhaps flexcolor is better, we didn't try it. But he's keep trying and looking for solutions. I'm shooting, and without problems. He has the 28mm and the 35-90mm. He needs the 210mm but he just bought a new macbook thet doesn't work properly with phocus (snip)

Phocus uses OpenGL commands extensively for speed of display, so it is important to have a strong graphics card with 512MB VRAM. Please pass our info over to your friend, happy to see if we can help him/her out.

-John
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« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2009, 02:15:35 PM »
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I have an H3DII-31 and I am very happy with it.

I don't shoot tethered. I have had some stability issues with earlier versions of Phocus but the most recent updates seem OK, and I look forward to version 2. (Nick T - any idea on release date for version 2? Any sneaky hints as to new features, or is it all under NDA?)

As someone moving up from 35mm dSLRs, the systems integration was if anything a bit of a plus for me. Everything runs from the same battery, for example, which makes it easier to pack for a day in the field.

The bottom line is that the images from the Hasselblad have really re-ignited my enthusiasm for photography  which is a good thing when it is the way I make my living. The camera is a joy to use and although it has flaws (most particularly the LCD display, which is really only useful for looking at the histogram!) it also has some very strong plus points which mattered to me (like base ISO 100 because of the microlenses, which as I hand hold a lot is important).

But as others have said, try every system you think might suit you before you buy. Pro Centre in London let me hire a camera for the day and offered to refund the hire fee if I purchased a system, which was nice of them. I'd certainly want to try the Leica and Mamiya/Phase options if I were buying now.

  Cheers, Hywel


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« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2009, 02:18:15 PM »
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horses for courses - I use H3D22 for over 2 years now, 90% tethered and never have issues with software. I used flex, now onto phocus, I find it very reliable. I use on H3 body and Sinar P2. I would love if they could shoot tethered into lightroom, but for the meantime this works.

if you want an easy, bulletproof system thats very affordable go the 5D2 route...

one other thing - I see tons of files on the post side of my business from working pros in the field on location and A LOT of those files are hassie. Some phase , very few leaf...

IMHO everyone sees what they want...
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« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2009, 02:31:12 PM »
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After looking at all the options I recently moved from 35mm digital to a Hasselblad H3DII-22 and don't regret the decision a bit. The camera is easy to use and the software was also no problem (not one crash). It does have its limitations and I have decided to keep my Canon system for events and low light, while formal portraits and studio work are now done exclusively with the Hasselblad. No knock on Phase, the reps I dealt with were great and the files produced were excellent, just felt Hasselblad had the edge.
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Dustbak
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« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2009, 02:41:43 PM »
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I use Hasselblad for about 3 years now and am very happy with it. There is always room for improvement. I use H2F with CF39 & CF39MS. For multishot I would still recommend Flexcolor over Phocus though that might change with 2.0.

I shoot mainly catalogue, stills & some portraits. Everything that doesn't move, given time I will try to multishot.

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John.Williams
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« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2009, 03:01:24 PM »
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I agree with Doug Peterson's post about getting your hands on the systems so you can evaluate how they feel, what is the workflow like, can it work in a manner important to you, and real-world applications practical to you as a photographic user in this case...

There are a lot of marketing campaigns, competitive dis-information, out-of-date pubs and by getting a hands-on you can do a proper evaluation sans the "noise"

I disagree with Doug's suggestion that a photographer must choose between integrated and modular systems, given that the H3D digital magazine can be used on a large format camera or any other system that can accept a Hasselblad H-mount.*

But that is why some readers come here to get a start on or continue their research, right?

-John
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* Williams, John. "Baby's got Back" published 14-October-2009, Hands-on Reviews - Cameras, hotwire-digital.com Accessed 2-November-2009.
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« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2009, 03:47:51 PM »
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seems hassy customers are pretty happy with their system
and that's why they are kind of silent on this page.
just a good camera and nothing to complain about?
or is there also some connection to the
reliability of the announcements made by the company?
i'm sure the competitors sooner or later
will change their nasty attitude
and i also will keep my mouth shut...
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