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Author Topic: What about Hasselblad  (Read 29193 times)
DesW
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« Reply #20 on: November 02, 2009, 04:11:18 PM »
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 Hi All,

Great Plug there there Dougie Boy for the Blad H2-the fact you mention it will take the Phase Backs--easily the best combo for the Phase Ones.

Any alternative to that POS Mamiya 645 body is welcome in our long suffering Industry.

Incidentally I have been a Blad owner since 1963 and luv em to bits--had the Imacon/V/H1 Combos with superb results-so no gripes there.

DesW
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KLaban
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« Reply #21 on: November 02, 2009, 04:16:33 PM »
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I've had an H3D-11 for some six months now and it's quite simply the most rewarding camera I've had the pleasure of using.

Why rewarding? Well, I love the integration, the ease of use, the DAC corrections, the 28mm, the viewfinder, Phocus...but most importantly, it just delivers.
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gwhitf
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« Reply #22 on: November 02, 2009, 04:38:58 PM »
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I asked this question on another thread, but no Hasselblad owners responded. Is there a Hasselblad back/camera that closely meets these criteria:

1. Roughly a frame a second, or quicker.
2. Roughly 22MP.
3. Large clear clean previews on 3" LCD.
4. Usable clean ASA of 400.
5. Tethers reliably.

What would that model number be? Thank you.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2009, 04:51:56 PM by gwhitf » Logged
Dustbak
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« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2009, 04:59:03 PM »
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AFAIK, there is no current model anymore that carries the 22MP sensor since Kodak discontinued that sensor. The thing that comes closest to what you are asking is the H3DII50.

1) Roughly a frame per second
2) Definitely not
3) It is 3" but clear clean preview is pretty subjective. I think even my Nikons screen is not enough.
4) ISO400, usable & clean to my standards but than again I am not easily scared by some noise.
5) Nothing tethers as reliable as my Valeo did but as long as you are doing single shot it will be pretty reliable.

The 31 is just a bit slower but has a smaller sized sensor but than again better ISO performance.

All these things aside there is a number of things that are well done by Leaf, Phase or even Sinar that I most certainly would welcome for Hasselblad as well. None of the systems are complete but I can work with the Hasselblad, I like working with it and it delivers what I need but indeed YMMV.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2009, 04:59:39 PM by Dustbak » Logged
gdwhalen
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« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2009, 05:01:38 PM »
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I use a Mac and have had absolutely no problems with Phocus tethered or not.  Just works with no problems.  I have 4 megs of RAM and shoot and process 16 bit but I haven't moved up to Snow Leopard yet so can't say about that.  

I find Phocus to work very much like Lightroom which I used for two years.  And I also used C1 so Phocus is doing a good job for me.  Even before I bought my Hasselblad I felt that there was a distinct bias in here against Hasselblad.   But different people have different experiences with things so all I can do is go by my short history with Hassy.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2009, 05:03:59 PM by gdwhalen » Logged

stevenf
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« Reply #25 on: November 02, 2009, 08:21:56 PM »
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I have recently dumped all my Canon gear for the H3DII- 50 - for me the decision came done to price and the quality of the lenses.

Steven

www.friedmanphoto.com


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jecxz
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« Reply #26 on: November 02, 2009, 09:23:39 PM »
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Quote from: stevesanacore
I am meeting a lot of photographers that use the Hasselblad H3d systems and are very happy with them but on this forum all I seem to see is Phase One users. Hasselblad has some very attractive packages on the H3D 39 and the new H4D 60 and I was wondering what are peoples experiences with them compared with Phase One? My biggest issue with Phase is the Mamiya system which I used to use in the film days and hated it. If I invest in MF then I need a totally integrated system for most work.

So what's the scoop on Hasselblad? Thanks.
I'll be more direct in answering why ...on this forum all I seem to see is Phase One users.

It's no secret that MR is no fan of Hasselblad, and he has gone out of his way to make that very clear.

Many PhaseOne owners share MR's feelings towards Hasselblad.

Nearly all of the Hasselblad users that I've spoken with think LL is a good website but have chosen to move on or participate less because of this bias. I visit here much less too, but I still come here because I feel this is a good forum and website, however, sometimes the anti-H momma-drama gets out of hand.

As you've probably noticed, the PhaseOne salesman jumped in; that happens a lot here and on other forums; he's gotten much better, but he needs to spread the PhaseOne name brand around, so he's using these forums to advertise and sell. He needs to eat I guess.

As far as Hasselblad goes, I use the H3DII39 and I'm extremely happy with both the results and the service I get from Hasselblad.

Hasselblad's Phocus software works great, it's a 64-bit software solution and I've not had any trouble working in on Vista 64. I shoot to CF.

The HC[D] lenses deliver outstanding quality; I've travelled with them all over North America, shooting for about 5 years.

I looked at the PhaseOne camera and I liked the viewfinder on the H platform much more. I also liked the complete lens line up on the H; it exists where as PhaseOne is still getting up to speed with their new lenses. I also liked knowing that Hasselblad has invested considerably into R&D on new products such as the HTS and the new zoom lens. I also prefer an integrated system, one vendor, one source for support and no finger pointing.

Be guided accordingly.

Kind regards,
Derek Jecxz
http://www.jecxz.com
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jing q
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« Reply #27 on: November 02, 2009, 09:25:53 PM »
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Quote from: Hywel
I have an H3DII-31 and I am very happy with it.

I don't shoot tethered. I have had some stability issues with earlier versions of Phocus but the most recent updates seem OK, and I look forward to version 2. (Nick T - any idea on release date for version 2? Any sneaky hints as to new features, or is it all under NDA?)

As someone moving up from 35mm dSLRs, the systems integration was if anything a bit of a plus for me. Everything runs from the same battery, for example, which makes it easier to pack for a day in the field.

The bottom line is that the images from the Hasselblad have really re-ignited my enthusiasm for photography  which is a good thing when it is the way I make my living. The camera is a joy to use and although it has flaws (most particularly the LCD display, which is really only useful for looking at the histogram!) it also has some very strong plus points which mattered to me (like base ISO 100 because of the microlenses, which as I hand hold a lot is important).

But as others have said, try every system you think might suit you before you buy. Pro Centre in London let me hire a camera for the day and offered to refund the hire fee if I purchased a system, which was nice of them. I'd certainly want to try the Leica and Mamiya/Phase options if I were buying now.

  Cheers, Hywel

actually I found the histogram a big step up coming from Leaf.
the H3d's screen was crap but the H3dII was a big improvement.
Also not enough people point out how convenient it is using the same battery to power the back and camera. previously either the camera or back would run out of juice at the wrong time, twice the room for problems.
(although it would be great if the battery on the H3d lasted longer)
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TMARK
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« Reply #28 on: November 03, 2009, 12:12:14 AM »
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I still have a bad taste in my mouth from the H1, and Blad never really penetrated the market in NYC among pros.  Everyone was Leaf or Phase on an H1 then H2, AFd, or RZ when I was making the switch to digital

This goes back to the H1.  The first one I picked up, at Calumet, couldn't advance the film.  The second one I tried shooting handheld with an Imacon back attached, the same way I would shoot an RZ.  Blurred frames from the mirror.  I used one with a Sinar 54m, locked down on a tripod. Great frames until the H1 threw some error messages then stopped working.  I thought the H was a piece of shit, hard to work with, uncomfortable hand cramping etc.  For me, I wrote the H off.  In fact, aside from the shutter lag, the Mamiya AFd is, to me, a much better handling camera.  I like the RZ with a back on it WAY better than the H.  I like the RZ lenses better than the H lenses, except for the 100 2.2.

In NYC everyone knows C1 and then Leaf Capture.  Few people know Flex or Phocus.  Few places rent the H3 system, or at least I've never seen it on their price lists.  I think people who own their own gear use the H3 system.  Lots of advanced amateurs use them.  I've seen files from the 39 and 31, and think they are really pretty at defaults in Flex.  Not Leaf pretty, but nicer than the clinical over sharpened Phase defaults from C1 3.x.  



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PeterA
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« Reply #29 on: November 03, 2009, 12:19:33 AM »
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Capture Intergraiton do a fantastic job selling Phase One stuff and servicing Phase One customers - I know because I bought a P45+ Phamiya and a bunch of other stuff from them. The company is great and goes out of its way to be helpful. My only complaint about Capture Intergration is that they sell the second best or third best system.  

Comparing the Phamiya body in any guise next to an H body is very very very funny - as there is no comparison. Every time a new Phamiya lens comes out the net is inundated with pics of just how good the Phamya D series lenses are - and I look at them ...and see ummm yeah ..nearly as good as what H users have enjoyed for 10 years already. Then you got the really really excellent C! software - much better than Phocus - why? Well because all these guys who shoot Canon and Nikon like it...hahahhahah (joke) I use C! pro for M files.

Meanwhile Hasselblad give their software for free to registered users - for sure less flim flams - but DAC corrections that actually work. Then I use a simple adaptor in front of my H series camera and can use all the V lenses I have as well - the camera immediately recognises what I am shooting and the software applies DAC corrections as well there - if I want.

Hasselblad is just an easier system to use than anything else out there - and I guess will always bring out their version of a big boy sensor many months after Phase One does  _ I gues that is the only thing that Hasselblad comes second in - megapixels and for all the 50 or so photographers that care - that is a big deal. Oh the other advantage that Phase On enjoys over Hasselblad in a P+ series camera is long exposures - Hasselblad goes (only) up to a minute....Phase One goes for hours. Again if that is important to you - well you will have to put up with third rate body and second rate lenses but you do get a long exposure.

The one thing that really upsets me about Hasselblad? - typing the silly name of my camera H3D11-39 I mean come on - thats just a stoopid naming convention - dont they care abotu how hard it is for peopel to type it easily?  
« Last Edit: November 03, 2009, 01:36:20 AM by PeterA » Logged
stevesanacore
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« Reply #30 on: November 03, 2009, 02:27:32 AM »
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Quote from: PeterA
Capture Intergraiton do a fantastic job selling Phase One stuff and servicing Phase One customers - I know because I bought a P45+ Phamiya and a bunch of other stuff from them. The company is great and goes out of its way to be helpful. My only complaint about Capture Intergration is that they sell the second best or third best system.  

Comparing the Phamiya body in any guise next to an H body is very very very funny - as there is no comparison. Every time a new Phamiya lens comes out the net is inundated with pics of just how good the Phamya D series lenses are - and I look at them ...and see ummm yeah ..nearly as good as what H users have enjoyed for 10 years already. Then you got the really really excellent C! software - much better than Phocus - why? Well because all these guys who shoot Canon and Nikon like it...hahahhahah (joke) I use C! pro for M files.

Meanwhile Hasselblad give their software for free to registered users - for sure less flim flams - but DAC corrections that actually work. Then I use a simple adaptor in front of my H series camera and can use all the V lenses I have as well - the camera immediately recognises what I am shooting and the software applies DAC corrections as well there - if I want.

Hasselblad is just an easier system to use than anything else out there - and I guess will always bring out their version of a big boy sensor many months after Phase One does  _ I gues that is the only thing that Hasselblad comes second in - megapixels and for all the 50 or so photographers that care - that is a big deal. Oh the other advantage that Phase On enjoys over Hasselblad in a P+ series camera is long exposures - Hasselblad goes (only) up to a minute....Phase One goes for hours. Again if that is important to you - well you will have to put up with third rate body and second rate lenses but you do get a long exposure.

The one thing that really upsets me about Hasselblad? - typing the silly name of my camera H3D11-39 I mean come on - thats just a stoopid naming convention - dont they care abotu how hard it is for peopel to type it easily?  


A lot of good points here. Yes I do sense an anti-hasselblad bias, maybe from some issues at the H1 system's start, or whatever. But so many rental houses use the H2 system with Phase backs that it's obvious the Hasselblad lenses and camera bodies are well proven. Imacon was no slouch technically when they took over the desktop scanning business from Leaf, which was quite an achievement . As so many have said, when I get back in town I'm going to go out and start testing the different systems against each other as well as against my own 1Ds3 images. Once I've established there is a quantifiable difference, then I'll deal with the hardware and software idiosyncrasies of each..

Thanks for all the info.
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stevesanacore
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« Reply #31 on: November 03, 2009, 02:48:14 AM »
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Quote from: jecxz
I'll be more direct in answering why ...on this forum all I seem to see is Phase One users.

It's no secret that MR is no fan of Hasselblad, and he has gone out of his way to make that very clear.

Many PhaseOne owners share MR's feelings towards Hasselblad.


Kind regards,
Derek Jecxz
http://www.jecxz.com

That's quite surprising since I really respect MR and the job he has done with this website and his tutorials. I know at one point he was obviously disappointed with Hasselblad locking out other back manufactures from their new systems. His site is the first place I go to get impressions of the latest gear and his opinion weighs heavily on my buying decisions. Never considered him bias. Now that you mention it, he has never done a comparison of the two systems. It would be quite a test to see how their latest systems match up as far as image quality.

And what do feelings towards equipment companies have to do with our business of making art or images?  I hate Nikon for forcing me to dump all my gear a few years ago when they appeared to have totally abandoned the professionals that made Nikon who they were.  But if I needed to buy a Nikon because it would help my work - my bias against them as a company wouldn't stop me from it.

They are only tools.

IMO - thanks for listening.






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James R Russell
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« Reply #32 on: November 03, 2009, 03:21:57 AM »
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Quote from: stevesanacore
A lot of good points here. Yes I do sense an anti-hasselblad bias, maybe from some issues at the H1 system's start, or whatever. But so many rental houses use the H2 system with Phase backs that it's obvious the Hasselblad lenses and camera bodies are well proven.

A lot of on the street talk about digital backs is from the past, or the stuff of urban legends.

I believe Leaf got the reputation for being more film like because early on V-8 was limited to the basics in processing, v10 was unstable and had a whole slew of problems so most Leaf files were processed in early CS1 and CS2 which gave a grain effect to .mos files, hence the reputation for film like.

Hasselblad early on had that tethered tank thing and the Imacon/hasselblad backs were usually one stop and one step behind phase so they got passed by.

Phase with version 3 software was the most stable of the medium format systems (at the time) and became more of the standard, though 90% of all professional images shot with Phase backs were shot with H series bodies.  I think some of that stability equity has been given up with the issues of V4, it may return with V5 though only time will tell.

I find the testing, buying process of medium format interesting because few photographers I know have actually taken a Canon, a Leaf, a Phase and a Blad and actually compared them in their real world shooting styles.

Most just shoot a few dozen frames at a dealer or of some assistant in their studio, write the check and then try to find a way to make the system work for them.  I've done it both ways, buying blind and buying through testing and I can promise you that the "film like look" of any digital camera has as much to do with subject, lighting, choice of processor as it does anything that relates to hardware.  That was in the Phase/Hasselblad Kodak sensor,  Leaf/Sinar Dalsa sensor days and now that everyone seems to mix and match everything I guess there is not that much difference.

I do know that the time I briefly tested the blad file in Flexcolor, compared to the Phase and Leaf, using HMI's the hasselblad file had the prettiest skin tones, though I didn't go the Hasselblad route because the file would only work (at the time) in flexcolor and the pre production 39 mpx back I tested was slow, though later versions were faster.

In fact under certain conditions the Leaf can be very film like, but shooting translucent skin can be a magenta nightmare, but issues can and do happen with every digital back because they all behave differently under different conditions. The Phase P30+ is very nice under tungsten light, the Aptus 22 good under most strobes, though the A-22 I owned was a moire machine.  Once again they all have their plus and minuses, though Hasselblad has one thing no other maker can match and that's a autofocus 100mm F 2.2 fast lens.  For a lot of money work, this is a magic focal length and 2.2 is fast and offers a lot of artistic options.

Doing it again, or starting fresh, I would probably go with Hasselblad, if only because it takes one battery to run the whole system and I think their contribution to the industry is strong, especially in the way they market and feature their photographers.

They have a respectful way of presenting the work of their  clientele and that goes a long way with me.

IMO

JR

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gdwhalen
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« Reply #33 on: November 03, 2009, 03:58:28 AM »
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Quote from: TMARK
I still have a bad taste in my mouth from the H1, and Blad never really penetrated the market in NYC among pros.  Everyone was Leaf or Phase on an H1 then H2, AFd, or RZ when I was making the switch to digital

This goes back to the H1.  The first one I picked up, at Calumet, couldn't advance the film.  The second one I tried shooting handheld with an Imacon back attached, the same way I would shoot an RZ.  Blurred frames from the mirror.  I used one with a Sinar 54m, locked down on a tripod. Great frames until the H1 threw some error messages then stopped working.  I thought the H was a piece of shit, hard to work with, uncomfortable hand cramping etc.  For me, I wrote the H off.  In fact, aside from the shutter lag, the Mamiya AFd is, to me, a much better handling camera.  I like the RZ with a back on it WAY better than the H.  I like the RZ lenses better than the H lenses, except for the 100 2.2.

In NYC everyone knows C1 and then Leaf Capture.  Few people know Flex or Phocus.  Few places rent the H3 system, or at least I've never seen it on their price lists.  I think people who own their own gear use the H3 system.  Lots of advanced amateurs use them.  I've seen files from the 39 and 31, and think they are really pretty at defaults in Flex.  Not Leaf pretty, but nicer than the clinical over sharpened Phase defaults from C1 3.x.

How many years ago was the H1?  jeez, get past it.

Everyone you know?  There are over 18,000,000 people in New York City.  I think every day starts with today and holding grudges for something that happened years ago when ALL companies were feeling there way through digital is not really a productive approach, do you think?   I, for one, am very happy with my Hasselblad, camera, back, lenses and Phocus.  I came in with no pre-disposition to anything whether it was Phase, mamiya, hasselblad, etc.  but the rants against Hasselblad in here are so emotional I just let them go and used my brain.  I am very happy I did.
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michele
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« Reply #34 on: November 03, 2009, 04:01:43 AM »
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Quote from: John.Williams
Phocus uses OpenGL commands extensively for speed of display, so it is important to have a strong graphics card with 512MB VRAM. Please pass our info over to your friend, happy to see if we can help him/her out.

-John
hotwire-digital.com


Oh, thanks John, i will as soon as possible  many thanks again
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KLaban
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« Reply #35 on: November 03, 2009, 04:08:03 AM »
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Quote from: James R Russell
...I think their contribution to the industry is strong, especially in the way they market and feature their photographers.

They have a respectful way of presenting the work of their  clientele and that goes a long way with me.

Agreed.
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gwhitf
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« Reply #36 on: November 03, 2009, 06:56:12 AM »
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I have been asking around about Hasselblad tethering, for an upcoming job in California. These guys were recommended to me, if you want Hasselblad tech and tethering.

Just trying to provide a public service here, and stay positive about Phocus, under pressure:

http://150kilos.com/

However, the word I got from a trusted source is that Phase and Leaf are the solid leaders, and shooting speed is not Hasselblad's forte.

Maybe it would be fine, if shooting product or the like.
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David Grover / Phase One
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« Reply #37 on: November 03, 2009, 07:00:44 AM »
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Quote from: gwhitf
I have been asking around about Hasselblad tethering, for an upcoming job in California. These guys were recommended to me, if you want Hasselblad tech and tethering.

Just trying to provide a public service here, and stay positive about Phocus, under pressure:

http://150kilos.com/

However, the word I got from a trusted source is that Phase and Leaf are the solid leaders, and shooting speed is not Hasselblad's forte.

Maybe it would be fine, if shooting product or the like.

Your trusted source is not trusted, as it simply doesn't stand anymore.  

Anyway, don't take it from me, try an H3D50 tethered.

...Plus I can certainly vouch for 150Kilos.  Extremely professional and work with photographers who would not accept anything less.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2009, 07:02:15 AM by David Grover / Hasselblad » Logged

David Grover
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gwhitf
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« Reply #38 on: November 03, 2009, 07:12:58 AM »
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Quote from: David Grover / Hasselblad
Your trusted source is not trusted, as it simply doesn't stand anymore.

Trust me, my source is trusted.

As an aside, if you mounted a P30+ onto an H2 body, could you buy the "magnifying viewfinder" for the H2, and mount that viewfinder onto the H2, and thus, the H2 becomes "full frame", at least in how you're seeing it through the viewfinder?

IOW, if you had two bodies in front of you:

1) H2 with P65+, with normal viewfinder.
2) H2 with P30+, but with magnifying viewfinder.

And you put both cameras on tripods in front of you, and you looked thru each one, would the viewfinder image that you see be the same size?

Are there any downsides of using the magnifying viewfinder? Would duct tape be involved in any way, in my approach?

Thank you.

PS. If I only buy from Doug Peterson, but I wanted Hasselblad, what do I do then? Does Doug moonlight for any Hasselblad dealers?
« Last Edit: November 03, 2009, 07:16:26 AM by gwhitf » Logged
David Grover / Phase One
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« Reply #39 on: November 03, 2009, 07:22:36 AM »
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Quote from: gwhitf
Trust me, my source is trusted.

As an aside, if you mounted a P30+ onto an H2 body, could you buy the "magnifying viewfinder" for the H2, and mount that viewfinder onto the H2, and thus, the H2 becomes "full frame", at least in how you're seeing it through the viewfinder?

IOW, if you had two bodies in front of you:

1) H2 with P65+, with normal viewfinder.
2) H2 with P30+, but with magnifying viewfinder.

And you put both cameras on tripods in front of you, and you looked thru each one, would the viewfinder image that you see be the same size?

Are there any downsides of using the magnifying viewfinder? Would duct tape be involved in any way, in my approach?

Thank you.

PS. If I only buy from Doug Peterson, but I wanted Hasselblad, what do I do then? Does Doug moonlight for any Hasselblad dealers?

Trusted maybe, wrong, absolutely.

As for your second question, no.

Doug has been Phase-washed, so you would have to go to another dealer.  ;-)  
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David Grover
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