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Author Topic: CS4/Leopard fix for printing targets  (Read 32848 times)
Doyle Yoder
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« Reply #120 on: December 10, 2009, 04:33:04 PM »
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Quote from: DonCone
Hmm, it makes me wonder Simon. If Apple's APIs require that all files sent to a printer MUST be tagged then how can I possibly send an untagged target file directly to the printer by just choosing to not use Colorsync? It would seem that either Apple has changed the API or Adobe is misinformed. In the tests this week, I did this from 3 different applications and the output was identical. I wish there were some logical explanation for why some systems have a problem and some don't.

Don

If you can choose ColorSync or Vendor Matching (what ever it may be called in a particular printer driver) your either using an application that does not use the new printing path or you are selecting Printer Manages Color in an application that does use the new printing path.

Doyle
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DonCone
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« Reply #121 on: December 11, 2009, 12:21:08 AM »
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Quote from: DYP
If you can choose ColorSync or Vendor Matching (what ever it may be called in a particular printer driver) your either using an application that does not use the new printing path or you are selecting Printer Manages Color in an application that does use the new printing path.

Doyle

FWIW Doyle, I am choosing Printer Manages Color in CS4. I am choosing Epson Color Controls in the Color Matching tab of the printer driver in Preview, And, I am choosing the same thing in the Eye-One software. All of these applications can print an untagged profile target correctly. Doesn't that sort of suggest that Apple can do it right?

Don
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djoy
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« Reply #122 on: December 19, 2009, 07:56:40 AM »
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This has been quiet too long...

I am very disappointed to see that nearly 7 weeks after this was publicised ( and it was known about for months prior that! ) that the manufacturers have still not addressed this problem. My faith in printing from my Mac is basically zero right now, I simply don't trust it. Before you start, yes I know I *could* print from it, but my confidence that it's all actually working correctly is destroyed. To think I upgraded to my 7880 specifically to take advantage of the 16 bit drivers on the Mac, and now my only reliable option is to use Windows and it's 8 bit printing paths. I've a 7880 here which has never been used, I do not use Epson papers, I use 3rd party papers, which means I have to profile them, and yet I cannot do so reliably, not without "workarounds" which I do not consider to be a proper solution.

Epson - I've supported for many years, had great faith in their products which I've recommended to others without reservation, but they've literally left their customers hung out to dry here. They sell you a Pro printer, which you would use for business, and then cut you off with no drivers or drivers which don't work properly. Not only the problems for printers officially supporting Snow Leopard, but the printers ( including Pro models ) they've disinherited. I've seen many posts from people with printers for which Epson have said they're just not going to release Snow Leopard compatible drivers for, e.g. Pro 4000. If anyone asked me right now for a recommendation, I honestly think I would suggest they avoid Epson.

Apple - As secretive as ever, will acknowledge nothing, totally non-committal and won't help you for fear of admitting something. The user here who received some help from Apple Support to try to fix this had to sign a non-disclosure agreement before they would help! I never thought I'd say it, but Apple is now Microsoft in all but name. My opinion of Snow Leopard printing is currently "it's broken" anyone asking me will be given a recommendation to print from something else.

Adobe - The most responsive of the three, but other than pointing out it's "not their fault" seem to have done little to get this resolved ( Eric Chan's personal efforts notwithstanding ). I still think there's more than meets the eye here, but at least they have publicly acknowledged something.

Am I whinging and moaning? Sure I am, but I think it's justified, to me this is utterly unprofessional and the epitome of poor customer support, clearly from the posts I've seen I'm not the only one who feels slightly aggrieved at this situation. Do I expect these companies to drop everything they're doing an devote all their attention to me? Of course not, but this isn't just me is it? These are current products, which they're still selling, which do not work as they are supposed to. When will somebody do something to fix this?
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Doyle Yoder
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« Reply #123 on: December 19, 2009, 08:14:51 AM »
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Quote from: djoy
My opinion of Snow Leopard printing is currently "it's broken" anyone asking me will be given a recommendation to print from something else.

It is not broken for everybody. So the big question is why.

Doyle
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DonCone
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« Reply #124 on: December 19, 2009, 09:13:29 AM »
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Am I whinging and moaning? Sure I am, but I think it's justified, to me this is utterly unprofessional and the epitome of poor customer support, clearly from the posts I've seen I'm not the only one who feels slightly aggrieved at this situation. Do I expect these companies to drop everything they're doing an devote all their attention to me? Of course not, but this isn't just me is it? These are current products, which they're still selling, which do not work as they are supposed to. When will somebody do something to fix this?
[/quote]

There is an old saying in engineering to the effect that "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Maybe it ain't broke. Have you actually tried to print an untagged target on your 7880 with SL with Colorsync turned off? I'll bet you can if you try.

Don
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #125 on: December 19, 2009, 09:55:02 AM »
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[quote name='DonCone' date='Dec 19 2009, 10:13 AM' post='334029'


There is an old saying in engineering to the effect that "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Maybe it ain't broke. Have you actually tried to print an untagged target on your 7880 with SL with Colorsync turned off? I'll bet you can if you try.

Don
[/quote]
 
Don, this thread is about 123 posts long. If there's nothing broken what's all the fuss been about? I mean are you sure? Would be nice!
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
DonCone
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« Reply #126 on: December 19, 2009, 10:54:28 AM »
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Quote from: MarkDS
[quote name='DonCone' date='Dec 19 2009, 10:13 AM' post='334029'


There is an old saying in engineering to the effect that "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Maybe it ain't broke. Have you actually tried to print an untagged target on your 7880 with SL with Colorsync turned off? I'll bet you can if you try.

Don

 
Don, this thread is about 123 posts long. If there's nothing broken what's all the fuss been about? I mean are you sure? Would be nice!

Mark, I fell into the trap of reading some of these posts and assuming that I must have the problem too. I do not. I printed a target the way I have many times in the past from PS and it was bad. I did not realize that in CS4, selecting "No Color Management" in the Adobe print dialog actually turned Colorsync "ON". That was my only problem. When I started reading this thread it seemed to be a mixed bag of people who had a problem and people who do not. There are printers that do not have updated drivers for Leopard/Snow Leopard available and they may have the problem. I don't have one to test so don't know.  But, with Leopard compatible drivers printing from applications that can turn Colorsync Off in the printer driver should work.

Don
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Photo Op
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« Reply #127 on: February 07, 2010, 05:03:23 PM »
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Quote from: Wayne Fox
Thanks for the insightful article on the challenges of printing targets from CS4/Leopard and Snow Leopard..........

So many thanks to Mark and Eric (and all of the others who have helped.)  Hopefully it gets fixed someday, after all turning color management off in Photoshop should do just that, but at least I can resume making profiles for my 7900.

With the "soon" to be released 10.6.3, It would be nice if we could get an update from the main characters to the article or this thread as to whether printing targets will be "fixed"!
« Last Edit: February 07, 2010, 05:06:06 PM by Photo Op » Logged

David
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« Reply #128 on: February 08, 2010, 05:30:37 AM »
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Quote from: Photo Op
With the "soon" to be released 10.6.3, It would be nice if we could get an update from the main characters to the article or this thread as to whether printing targets will be "fixed"!
my guess is 10.7 will work, thereby forcing an upgrade. Apple have promised that profile printing will be a supported test case in the future, however these days their engineering resources are probably focused onthe iphone/ ipad system.

Edmund
« Last Edit: February 08, 2010, 05:32:48 AM by eronald » Logged

Edmund Ronald, Ph.D. 
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« Reply #129 on: February 08, 2010, 12:31:50 PM »
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Quote from: Photo Op
With the "soon" to be released 10.6.3, It would be nice if we could get an update from the main characters to the article or this thread as to whether printing targets will be "fixed"!


Uh, do you think Apple would actually TELL anybody what they did or didn't fix in a dot release? Really? I got a bridge in the desert I'll sell ya...

We'll see but I wouldn't be holding my breath if I were you...
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Doyle Yoder
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« Reply #130 on: February 08, 2010, 01:43:06 PM »
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Does anybody know what small number of printer drivers this affects. As I have pointed out before, it appears that this problem affects only some printer drivers, so it is highly uncertain that this is an Adobe or Apple problem.

Doyle


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Photo Op
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« Reply #131 on: March 29, 2010, 07:34:38 PM »
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Quote from: Wayne Fox
Thanks for the insightful article on the challenges of printing targets from CS4/Leopard and Snow Leopard........


So many thanks to Mark and Eric (and all of the others who have helped.)  Hopefully it gets fixed someday, after all turning color management off in Photoshop should do just that....

Now that 10.6.3 has been released, does anyone know if the issue has been fixed?
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David
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